Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold


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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Pego » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:38 pm

Flumpy wrote:That's what I thought. Although these samples have of course been tested before. Someone must have known whose sample was whose. As long as those doing the testing aren't aware is it not ok to target individuals?


Not sure what is legal where. I am pretty sure it depends on whose jurisdiction it is. A targeted person's lawyer could always find some sort of discrimination. I would stick strictly to either testing everybody or random (blind) targets.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Gabriella » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:36 pm

But we know that target testing does happen. Any athletes with 'unusual' results are targetted for further testing. That's how a lot of athletes have been caught out recently.

As the Athens samples were tested previously, I can imagine the chain of anonymity is not 100%. It just seems strange to me that the 5 failed re-tests are all from throwing events. I really dont think that throwers are cheating more than other events. Unless, of course, when they talk about samples that have deteriorated, that actual whole events worth of samples have gone off. Would they store events results together in some circumstances? I remember back in Seoul they targetted a number of athletes per event and also targetted specific athletes to do a comparison. I would assume in order to do the comparative analysis they would store the samples of the same event together. It would be a travesty if this were the case here.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby 18.99s » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:54 pm

Ned Ryerson wrote:
Marlow wrote:
Ned Ryerson wrote:How can she prove it?

The paper trail. All her Performance Reviews.
Goodyear had no documentation of poor performance, leading to the lower salary.


And how do we know those weren't falsified?

I think Goodyear was forced to directly provide her performance records to the court. If they were falsified by Ledbetter to make herself look better, she would have had to break into their HR files (whether paper or computer or both) to change the records without detection, which is a far-fetched scenario.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Ned Ryerson » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:16 pm

18.99s wrote:
Ned Ryerson wrote:
Marlow wrote:
Ned Ryerson wrote:How can she prove it?

The paper trail. All her Performance Reviews.
Goodyear had no documentation of poor performance, leading to the lower salary.


And how do we know those weren't falsified?

I think Goodyear was forced to directly provide her performance records to the court. If they were falsified by Ledbetter to make herself look better, she would have had to break into their HR files (whether paper or computer or both) to change the records without detection, which is a far-fetched scenario.


I know, my point was that while we have no evidence that she did anything like that, we can't prove she didn't. Similarly, while we can't prove that athlete X didn't dope simply because their test came back clean, they're inability to prove further that they didn't do something does not serve as viable evidence that they did. The onus is on the accuser to present compelling evidence.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby marknhj » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:39 pm

Gabriella wrote:It just seems strange to me that the 5 failed re-tests are all from throwing events. I really dont think that throwers are cheating more than other events.


Coming up with Eastern European throwers simply does not pass the smell test. It's inconceivable that no sprinters, or middle and long distance runners were not also positive in Athens.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby mump boy » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:49 pm

marknhj wrote:
Gabriella wrote:It just seems strange to me that the 5 failed re-tests are all from throwing events. I really dont think that throwers are cheating more than other events.


Coming up with Eastern European throwers simply does not pass the smell test. It's inconceivable that no sprinters, or middle and long distance runners were not also positive in Athens.


Especially some of the sprinters who were at that games :shock:
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Dave » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:31 pm

Marlow wrote:
mump boy wrote:It is drug cheats that bring discredit to the sport not catching them :roll:

Yeah, cuz the NFL, NBA and MLB are in such a sorry state for all their uncaught cheaters. :roll:
Again, I am not defending cheaters; I hate them and desperately want them caught, but if we are not good enough to catch them in the act, busting them EIGHT years later does little for the sport.


Thank you for stating this better than I had.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Mighty Favog » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:08 pm

From Sports Illustrated's Tim Layden:

Yes, Adam Nelson has seen the reports about '04 shot put gold medalist Yuriy Bilonog)retroactively testing positive. Typically, Nelson, the silver medalist, emailed me a classy response: ``I heard the same rumor two days after the 2004 Olympics. Two weeks later, I received a call from someone after I returned home who had heard from a credible source within the Olympic movement that Yuri tested positive. This same story leaked just before this year's Olympic Games. If the rumors aren't true, then someone owes Yuri an apology. If they are true, I'll have a more to say.''
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby polevaultpower » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:39 pm

Athletes in different events dope in different ways. It seems like throwers are more likely to use methods that the authorities are better at testing for. It doesn't _necessarily_ mean that they are being targeted more in the re-test process.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Gabriella » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:27 am

polevaultpower wrote:Athletes in different events dope in different ways. It seems like throwers are more likely to use methods that the authorities are better at testing for. It doesn't _necessarily_ mean that they are being targeted more in the re-test process.


I don't necessarily think throwers are being targetted, but I do find the results a little obvious. I agree that perhaps traditional methods and substances are used in throwing events, but the Athens samples were not kept for 8 years so we could just re-test for stanozolol and testosterone, it was for all those new sophiscated methods like 'The Clear', gene doping, and not so new methods like blood doping. I just find the 5 postives a little 'sacrificial lamb-like'. Not that I'm a conspiracy theorist or anything!

So, I am wondering whether the deteriorated samples are from whole events, say, the 100m, for example, or whether the sad reality is that come the champs, those cheats we do know from non throwing events really had clean samples by then and there was no trace of anything. But then, I was under the impression we'd come some way since 04.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby j-a-m » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:20 am

18.99s wrote:In general that may be true, but in the case of world record holders, busting them 8 or 15 or 30 years later would be very good for the sport. Imagine what it would mean to current athletes if some of the records still standing from the 1980s got wiped off the books.

Does the statute of limitations apply to WRs as such? If the IAAF were to nullify a WR, without banning the athlete or taking away any individual achievements (other than being listed as WR holder), would that athlete have a case?
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby j-a-m » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:24 am

26mi235 wrote:For those 1984 samples, how reliable would those tests be (both false negatives and false positives)?

The issue is probably how reliable the procedures of taking and storing the samples were in 1984, i.e. were they potentially mixed up or something like that? If something went wrong with the samples back then, there's virtually no way for an athlete to prove that; and that's one of the reasons a statute of limitations is that important.
Last edited by j-a-m on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby j-a-m » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:32 am

18.99s wrote:However, as I have said before in this thread, having statutes of limitations is not a good idea for some things, and drug testing seems like something where it shouldn't exist. The victims of doping are the athletes who didn't dope -- unlike somebody who was robbed or is owed a debt, the athletes who have been wronged by dopers had neither the knowledge nor power to anything about the mutli-year delays in testing and retesting.

They did have the relevant knowledge, didn't they? Comparing the case of a silver medalist to the example of a stolen purse:

Your purse is gone. You probably lost it, but someone may have stolen it. There's only one suspect, the event has been caught on tape, but the tape is inconclusive. Ten years later, new technology emerges that enables you to further zoom into the videotape. Wouldn't the statute of limitations have started to run in the very beginning, given you had all the facts?
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Pego » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:08 am

j-a-m wrote:
18.99s wrote:However, as I have said before in this thread, having statutes of limitations is not a good idea for some things, and drug testing seems like something where it shouldn't exist. The victims of doping are the athletes who didn't dope -- unlike somebody who was robbed or is owed a debt, the athletes who have been wronged by dopers had neither the knowledge nor power to anything about the mutli-year delays in testing and retesting.

They did have the relevant knowledge, didn't they? Comparing the case of a silver medalist to the example of a stolen purse:

Your purse is gone. You probably lost it, but someone may have stolen it. There's only one suspect, the event has been caught on tape, but the tape is inconclusive. Ten years later, new technology emerges that enables you to further zoom into the videotape. Wouldn't the statute of limitations have started to run in the very beginning, given you had all the facts?


This is clearly open to interpretation, but I would argue that you did not have all the facts at the beginning, since there was no tool to unlock them.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby gh » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:12 am

marknhj wrote:
Gabriella wrote:It just seems strange to me that the 5 failed re-tests are all from throwing events. I really dont think that throwers are cheating more than other events.


Coming up with Eastern European throwers simply does not pass the smell test. It's inconceivable that no sprinters, or middle and long distance runners were not also positive in Athens.


Actually, it is conceivable, because as I understand it, what we have here is not a new "more sensitive" system that magically detects everything across the board, it's developments in technology that allow for finding new classes of product, or refining the procedures for certain products.

And given that the doping regimens vary so greatly across the spectrum of event groupings, I'm not all surprised that there may be "clusters" of positives.

Now if they could time-machine EPO/hct testing from the '90 and 00s, imagine what would likely to happen to a lot of distance types (while sparing Eastern European throwers).
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Blues » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:46 am

gh wrote:
marknhj wrote:
Gabriella wrote:It just seems strange to me that the 5 failed re-tests are all from throwing events. I really dont think that throwers are cheating more than other events.


Coming up with Eastern European throwers simply does not pass the smell test. It's inconceivable that no sprinters, or middle and long distance runners were not also positive in Athens.


Actually, it is conceivable, because as I understand it, what we have here is not a new "more sensitive" system that magically detects everything across the board, it's developments in technology that allow for finding new classes of product, or refining the procedures for certain products.

And given that the doping regimens vary so greatly across the spectrum of event groupings, I'm not all surprised that there may be "clusters" of positives.

Now if they could time-machine EPO/hct testing from the '90 and 00s, imagine what would likely to happen to a lot of distance types (while sparing Eastern European throwers).


Absolutely correct. An on-point post, and well said as always.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby mump boy » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:30 am

gh wrote:
marknhj wrote:
Gabriella wrote:It just seems strange to me that the 5 failed re-tests are all from throwing events. I really dont think that throwers are cheating more than other events.


Coming up with Eastern European throwers simply does not pass the smell test. It's inconceivable that no sprinters, or middle and long distance runners were not also positive in Athens.


Actually, it is conceivable, because as I understand it, what we have here is not a new "more sensitive" system that magically detects everything across the board, it's developments in technology that allow for finding new classes of product, or refining the procedures for certain products.

And given that the doping regimens vary so greatly across the spectrum of event groupings, I'm not all surprised that there may be "clusters" of positives.

Now if they could time-machine EPO/hct testing from the '90 and 00s, imagine what would likely to happen to a lot of distance types (while sparing Eastern European throwers).


You're so smart Gaz :D
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby marknhj » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:03 am

Your'e right gh, of course. I had assumed, wrongly I suppose, that they were re-testing for EPO, the Balco cocktails et al, and using all the latest available testing protocols across the board. If that was not the case, clusters of positives for old-school anabolics is entirely possible. In the rest of my life I am the antithesis of a conspiracy theorist! However, when sporting governing bodies are involved in policing their own territories nothing would surprise me. Coming up with a few sacrificial lambs from the east, and in the field events, would not surprise me at all.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Tuariki » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:19 am

The courts - at least those in the west - have accepted the latest in DNA technologies to prove the innocence of those wrongly convicted of crimes up to 30 or more years ago.

If the sporting bodies still have samples in storage it would be great to reverse the process and remove from the record books the cheats of the past.

Also the IOC and IAAF should introduce a retrospective rule removing all world records set prior to being caught with PEDs from any athlete caught on the presumption that everything they did was tainted.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby mump boy » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:14 pm

Mighty Favog wrote:From Sports Illustrated's Tim Layden:

Yes, Adam Nelson has seen the reports about '04 shot put gold medalist Yuriy Bilonog)retroactively testing positive. Typically, Nelson, the silver medalist, emailed me a classy response: ``I heard the same rumor two days after the 2004 Olympics. Two weeks later, I received a call from someone after I returned home who had heard from a credible source within the Olympic movement that Yuri tested positive. This same story leaked just before this year's Olympic Games. If the rumors aren't true, then someone owes Yuri an apology. If they are true, I'll have a more to say.''


What a class act :D
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Gabriella » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:33 am

marknhj wrote:Your'e right gh, of course. I had assumed, wrongly I suppose, that they were re-testing for EPO, the Balco cocktails et al, and using all the latest available testing protocols across the board. If that was not the case, clusters of positives for old-school anabolics is entirely possible.


But they are re-testing for EPO and Balco cocktails, surely? :?

We know that the powers that be could do more to right the wrongs of the past. Some of the positives we have seen over the last few years suggests there is still organised doping at some level in some of the former Soviet satelites.We have seen a large number of high profile Russian athletes failing tests - whole training groups of athletes in some cases (Tomoshova, Chizenko,Soboleva, Cherkasova, Yegorova et al) and yet the Russian Federation do not appear to have been chastised. Surely the message should be "clean up your act or your athletes will be banned from competing at the next Games"? But instead we get "here you are, have the 2013 World Championships!" :roll: The same should have been said to the US after Balco, but, of course, the IOC etc rely on the US corporations for sponsorship and paying shed loads for TV rights. How foolish of me! And then of course we have athletes like Bubka, a former Soviet and now Ukranian, who was possibly fed things (with or without his knowledge) while competing for the USSR, now a senior IOC figure. The Ukraine obviously has a doping problem, let's be honest here, yet I wonder how enthusiastic he is about fixing it? Goodness, could he even be privy to whatever doping is going on there? Stranger things have happened..Manfred Ewald...

So, forgive me for being a wee bit suspicious
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Blues » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:13 am

We have to keep in mind that testing of Athens samples in most cases still only has the chance to catch careless or uninformed cheaters or those who felt that what they were using was undetectable. Even in 2004, most athletes knew to stop taking the PED in advance of the Olympics, since they knew they'd be tested. If they stopped soon enough and the substance was no longer in their systems, they weren't going to test positive then, and the majority of those same samples won't test positive now, even though the performance enhancing benefit of drugs like anabolic steroids and EPO still benefitted those athletes during the Olympic competition. So even if all the athletes from Athens that we might be most suspicious of had their samples retested, there are many who wouldn't test positive even if they were using prior to the Games, despite the better and more efficient testing technology of today. If the PED was already cleared from the cheaters urine when they pissed in the cup, we aren't going to find it.

As far as drugs like Balco's THG, Balco was raided in 2003, and testing for the substance was done in Athens in 2004 and it's not like the drug was still undetectable at that time, so anyone still using it knew at that time that they'd have to stop in advance of the Olympics to avoid being caught. I believe EPO is a little more difficult to detect than many other PEDs, and although the ability to detect it is better now, it's still detectable only for a relatively short time after it's injected, so again, if the drug wasn't used close to the date of competition in Athens, it most likely won't be detectable in those old samples now, despite the fact that users, while not testing positive, still would have had an unfair advantage in the number of red blood cells able to carry oxygen to the muscles.

The best way to catch and deter drug cheats isn't through urine sample collection at major competitions like the Olympics, it's through efficient unannounced random testing, and even today many national anti-doping programs lag far behind in this area, and certain nations either don't have an efficient anti-doping program of their own, or don't desire one.. I'm still in favor of retesting old samples with current technology for the small degree of justice it might result in, but it's important to remember that in many cases the smart cheaters won't be caught no matter when the sample is analyzed, regardless of the degree of advancement of the technology, at least when it comes to in-competition samples.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby guru » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:38 am

IOC strips Bilonoh(and three others). Nelson moves to Athens gold.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ol ... c/1748563/
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby gh » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:20 pm

I don't think I've seen anywhere that the IOC says medals will be reassigned. One certainly hopes so, but they haven't been consistent in that area.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby GDAWG » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:29 pm

Is there a statute of limitations on when the IOC makes a decision on the stripping of medals? Because the Russians want that 4 x 400 relay gold from 2004. When that decision is made, no doubt it'll be talked about on Twitter. The IOC was smart in not announcing a decision on that before the London Olympics as it would have been a major distraction for the two members of the relay squad that were competing in London (SRR and DeeDee Trotter). That decision needs to be made pretty soon though as it doesn't need to be a distraction for both SRR and Trotter if a decision is held off until late Summer, especially in a World Championships year.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby preston » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:43 pm

GDAWG wrote:Is there a statute of limitations on when the IOC makes a decision on the stripping of medals? Because the Russians want that 4 x 400 relay gold from 2004. When that decision is made, no doubt it'll be talked about on Twitter. The IOC was smart in not announcing a decision on that before the London Olympics as it would have been a major distraction for the two members of the relay squad that were competing in London (SRR and DeeDee Trotter). That decision needs to be made pretty soon though as it doesn't need to be a distraction for both SRR and Trotter if a decision is held off until late Summer, especially in a World Championships year.

There shouldn't be much if anything to think about. If a member of a relay team tests positive (or later admits that they were using PED's during that event or even during that season) - even if they ran in the rounds/qf/sf - then the entire team must be disqualified.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:07 pm

It is hard enough to get back Gold (or other) medals from those that are DQed. It is much harder to get them back from those that did not do the doping. Note that Johnson gave his back, but I think that was a result of the rule being different or at least not spelled out until somewhat later.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby GDAWG » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:17 pm

preston wrote:
GDAWG wrote:Is there a statute of limitations on when the IOC makes a decision on the stripping of medals? Because the Russians want that 4 x 400 relay gold from 2004. When that decision is made, no doubt it'll be talked about on Twitter. The IOC was smart in not announcing a decision on that before the London Olympics as it would have been a major distraction for the two members of the relay squad that were competing in London (SRR and DeeDee Trotter). That decision needs to be made pretty soon though as it doesn't need to be a distraction for both SRR and Trotter if a decision is held off until late Summer, especially in a World Championships year.

There shouldn't be much if anything to think about. If a member of a relay team tests positive (or later admits that they were using PED's during that event or even during that season) - even if they ran in the rounds/qf/sf - then the entire team must be disqualified.


Yes, but the IOC hasn't made that decision yet.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby mump boy » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:50 pm

Of course Nelson should get his gold but as Nevets pointed out earlier it gets more complicated after that. I don't think anyone would object to `manuel Martines getting the bronze in SP but do we want Tihon's fellow cheat Devyatovsky upgraded to Bronse in the HT ? or the delightful Ostapchuk getting her hands on a SP bronze. At least Cechlova's upgrade in the DT after Yatchenko's DQ means one medalist will be without suspicion

And people still tell me we're biased towards countries like BLR :roll:
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby guru » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:04 pm

gh wrote:I don't think I've seen anywhere that the IOC says medals will be reassigned. One certainly hopes so, but they haven't been consistent in that area.



Well Nelson sure thinks he's getting it, and is calling it a career.

https://twitter.com/SITimLayden/status/ ... 0462686208

Adam Nelson wrote:I'm officially retired. This is the capstone of my career.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:25 pm

Seems to me a condition for an upgrade is no histories of drug penalties, or at least none longer than six months (often minor or 'inadvertent'). That takes care of several of the problematic cases.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby tandfman » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:14 pm

guru wrote:
gh wrote:I don't think I've seen anywhere that the IOC says medals will be reassigned. One certainly hopes so, but they haven't been consistent in that area.

Well Nelson sure thinks he's getting it, and is calling it a career.

https://twitter.com/SITimLayden/status/ ... 0462686208

Adam Nelson wrote:I'm officially retired. This is the capstone of my career.

Another tweet, directly from Adam Nelson:
I now know what it feels like to win a lifetime achievement award posthumously
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby guru » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:24 pm

Excellent piece on Nelson by Tim Layden

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... -put-gold/
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby gh » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:03 pm

Leyden says this <<(Or perhaps, if IAAF deigns to give Nelson his medal, they could do it at the world championships in Moscow). >>

I could be wrong, but believe the IAAF is completely powerless in this situation. I think they can change the official results of the competition by fiat, but the power over the medals proper remains w/ the IOC.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Flumpy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:13 am

And no revisionist medal has ever been awarded in public, especially not at a champs.

They'll reassign them but make sure it gets as little publicity as possible.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Gabriella » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:11 am

mump boy wrote:Of course Nelson should get his gold but as Nevets pointed out earlier it gets more complicated after that.


It does get complicated, but I am very much of the opinion that once an athlete has had a sanction for a steroid or Class A drug, whether they have failed a test or whether it be from some other evidence, then they forfeit all their previous medals.

It sickens me when I look back at results and see where proven cheats have managed to keep their medals. Look at someone like Bronwyn Thompson, 4th in the Athens LJ, her best ever competition on the biggest platform, and she is denied a medal by Simigina, who since failed a test (and I am not convinced by any of the other women above her, what with the recent Russian positives, but they remain innocent for now) Then of course we have all the medals Marion Jones cheated others out of; Christine Arron would have added to her medal collection in 97 (though in other years such as 99 the results are just a whole big mess) A returning Lysenko denying Heidler gold in 2011 and Włodarczyk in 2012, the mess the women's SP and men's HT has caused....I really would like all proven cheats to be taken off the medal books.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby preston » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:55 am

mump boy wrote:And people still tell me we're biased towards countries like BLR :roll:

Yes, you are biased against countries like BLR...we know that. However, when the IOC does NOT test all of the samples and not just target a select few, then it opens the mind to whether a GBR LONG, long distance runner was or an American sprinter or a caribbean sprinter or a European field eventer or a Aussie LJ...; basically, everyone gets tarred. So why the concentration on BLR? Think about this: a sprinter tested positive at the NCAA champs and was still allowed to compete in the Olympics for their country. That was in America...and you want to concentrate on BLR? Test everyone, everywhere and terminate their sporting careers when they test positive.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby guru » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:23 am

Flumpy wrote:And no revisionist medal has ever been awarded in public, especially not at a champs.

They'll reassign them but make sure it gets as little publicity as possible.



I think the most appropriate approach would be a ceremony at the 2013 USATF championships.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby tandfman » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:57 am

guru wrote:
Flumpy wrote:And no revisionist medal has ever been awarded in public, especially not at a champs.

They'll reassign them but make sure it gets as little publicity as possible.

I think the most appropriate approach would be a ceremony at the 2013 USATF championships.

That's been done for a re-awarded IAAF World Championships medal.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby tm71 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:43 pm

There has been some precedent of re awarding medals and ceremonies in situations like this in the past. in 2000 a us wrester received the gold medal in NYC in rockefeller plaza and the us anthem was heard after the original winner, a german athlete tested positive. this was a few weeks after the OG had ended. i know this situation (men's 2004 shot put) is over 8 yrs later and it seems like a long time ago (for example my daughter aptly named Athena was a baby then and now is in 3rd grade). However, someone like Adam Nelson who has been in the sport for over 15 yrs and has nothing so classy deserves that recognition even though it is just USATF that gives him that honor. btw i still fondly remember watching the qualifying round of the men's SP live on my large projector (just after midnight pacific time here in so cal) when all three of my kids were in diapers and sleeping in various parts of the house !
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