Questions about Sanya Richards Ross


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Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby fasttrack85 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:29 am

As amazingly talented as she is( and she is amazingly talented alot) there are things about her that baffle me. She has got to be the only person ever who has run sub 11/ sub 50,actually sub 49 at that, and still hasn't run sub 22. How can that happen? What is she doing wrong?

Also how is it possible(pertaining to 2012) that she makes significant improvements to your speed by bettering her previous 200 meter pr of 22.17 twice in 2012(22.15 and 22.09) but come no where close to your 400 pr.

Also does anyone think Sanya might be prone to choking(faltering during races for emotional/psychological reasons rather than physical/training related reasons)? Even though she won the gold medal in London I think that was a complete choke. She was just fortunate to be on the winning side of it. There is no way Clyde and Sanya planned a 49.55 race in training knowing that Russian girls had run 49.16 and 49.28 at champs and I know Sanya was working her ass off all spring and summer.

Do you think she should continue with her current running style of coasting from 100-250? I think it is good enough to beat good runners who produced average times( Montsho, TBO,Novlene) but will it work if one of those crazy Russians finally manage to get their race right in a championship final?

Having said all this I am a huge fan of her. I may sound critical but this is all constructive. I would be surprised if these are things her and her coach haven't discussed between themselves.
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby mump boy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:40 am

fasttrack85 wrote:Also does anyone think Sanya might be prone to choking(faltering during races for emotional/psychological reasons rather than physical/training related reasons)? Even though she won the gold medal in London I think that was a complete choke. She was just fortunate to be on the winning side of it. There is no way Clyde and Sanya planned a 49.55 race in training knowing that Russian girls had run 49.16 and 49.28 at champs and I know Sanya was working her ass off all spring and summer.



While i absolutely think Sanya has had problems with choking in the past i think she ran to win in London. She's been running a tactical 400m all year in preparation for that one race and she did exactly what she needed to do. She didn't want to risk going out too fast and blowing up like she did in Beijing and despite protestations to the contrary from Mr Hart she was well aware that TBO would be right there at the end
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby fasttrack85 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:34 am

mump boy wrote:
fasttrack85 wrote:Also does anyone think Sanya might be prone to choking(faltering during races for emotional/psychological reasons rather than physical/training related reasons)? Even though she won the gold medal in London I think that was a complete choke. She was just fortunate to be on the winning side of it. There is no way Clyde and Sanya planned a 49.55 race in training knowing that Russian girls had run 49.16 and 49.28 at champs and I know Sanya was working her ass off all spring and summer.



While i absolutely think Sanya has had problems with choking in the past i think she ran to win in London. She's been running a tactical 400m all year in preparation for that one race and she did exactly what she needed to do. She didn't want to risk going out too fast and blowing up like she did in Beijing and despite protestations to the contrary from Mr Hart she was well aware that TBO would be right there at the end



I don't call that a winning race for her standards even though she has a gold to show for it. How could she have been so confident that she could catch Dee Dee? To be honest she almost didn't. How could she have been confident that Antonina wouldn't have gone bat shit crazy on the home straight? At the end of the race she wasn't even sure if she had won. She had to wait until the results showed on the board to celebrate so that means she won by the skin of her teeth. She almost gave her mother and fans a heart attack.

BTW how do you know that Clyde knows anything about TBO level of fitness? If anything shouldn't he have been more concerned with the Russians?
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby mump boy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:30 am

I'm not saying the ran it perfectly or it didn't have it's limitations but it was the race plan she had been practicing all year. So i don't think it was a choke i think it was a conscious decision the merits of which are up to debate

But as you said she has the Gold medal which is 2 better than when she ran her more conventional race strategy 4 years before
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby fasttrack85 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:41 am

I have to disagree with you on this. There is no way that Sanya and Clyde plannd a 49.55 race just no way. Monthso had run a 49.54 in July, Krivoshapka had already run 49.42 and 49.16, Guschina had run 49.28, not to mention 49.55 is not completely out of the realm of Novlene, TBO, and Dee Dee Trotter. I am almost positive Sanya had a 49 flat race plan. If she ran 49.28 at US trials why would she run slower when all her major competiton are non Americans. Think about it. My question is what if Antonina had showed up ready to run another 49.16? Are you saying that Clyde and Sanya didn't get any news of Russian Champs?
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby preston » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:01 am

fasttrack85 wrote:... She has got to be the only person ever who has run sub 11/ sub 50,actually sub 49 at that, and still hasn't run sub 22. How can that happen? What is she doing wrong?

That's not true. There are at least 2 other women who have this "Achievement" but I think the club has 4 members. (One was an NCAA hurdler and another held the NCAA 400m record for years)
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby Marlow » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:07 am

preston wrote:
fasttrack85 wrote:... She has got to be the only person ever who has run sub 11/ sub 50,actually sub 49 at that, and still hasn't run sub 22. How can that happen? What is she doing wrong?

That's not true. There are at least 2 other women who have this "Achievement" but I think the club has 4 members. (One was an NCAA hurdler and another held the NCAA 400m record for years)

And why would you think that just because those are nice round numbers, they are equivalent? There are far fewer sub-22s than sub-11 or sub-50.
There are
566 sub-11s
456 sub-50s
yet only
86 sub-21s.
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby Pego » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:22 am

fasttrack85 wrote:She has got to be the only person ever who has run sub 11/ sub 50,actually sub 49 at that, and still hasn't run sub 22.


Kratochvílová and Pérec with their high-47 and low-48 broke 22 only marginally.
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby preston » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:25 am

Marlow wrote:
preston wrote:
fasttrack85 wrote:... She has got to be the only person ever who has run sub 11/ sub 50,actually sub 49 at that, and still hasn't run sub 22. How can that happen? What is she doing wrong?

That's not true. There are at least 2 other women who have this "Achievement" but I think the club has 4 members. (One was an NCAA hurdler and another held the NCAA 400m record for years)

And why would you think that just because those are nice round numbers, they are equivalent? There are far fewer sub-22s than sub-11 or sub-50.
There are
566 sub-11s
456 sub-50s
yet only
86 sub-21s.

Marlow, I think you quoted the wrong post...
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:40 am

Marlow wrote:
preston wrote:
fasttrack85 wrote:... She has got to be the only person ever who has run sub 11/ sub 50,actually sub 49 at that, and still hasn't run sub 22. How can that happen? What is she doing wrong?

That's not true. There are at least 2 other women who have this "Achievement" but I think the club has 4 members. (One was an NCAA hurdler and another held the NCAA 400m record for years)

And why would you think that just because those are nice round numbers, they are equivalent? There are far fewer sub-22s than sub-11 or sub-50.
There are
566 sub-11s
456 sub-50s
yet only
86 sub-21s.


My thoughts exactly, but then throw in sub-49 instead, wherein the 456 becomes a much smaller number. I think an equivalent 100 time is more like 10.90, which is about her limit there. So, is there another piece to the puzzle? You have more opportunities, can run more the shorter the distance. She has run primarily 400s, so her "n" there is large despite the lower relative frequency. On the other hand, she has run few 200s, especially when in top shape. My guess is that she could have done so in London if she only ran the 200, but after three rounds of 400s and her third 200, she was missing that little bit (since she got fairly close just in a semi).
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby Speedster » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:47 am

SRR ran a very careful and measured race, she had run strong final 100s this year and this race was no different really, I think we all expected a faster outcome but the occasion and rounds were going to have an effect and she had four years to wait for another chance after Beijing.

The Russians have been very quick at homes across a number of events in the last few seasons but not really backed it up in the same way in the majors. Krivoshapka had gone out hard and died during the rounds so SRR probably knew they were in a good position to run her down.

Some months on it would be interesting to hear her views on the race, times don't matter and gold medals are forever, but I wonder if she's thought about how she performed and if she'll approach the 400m differently in 2013.

Personally I would rather see her run the 100m/200m after 10 years of running the 400m internationally. She looked great over the 200m this year and if she'd been fresher in the trials or olympic final, I think a sub 22 wouldn't have been out of the question.
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:37 am

fasttrack85 wrote:Also does anyone think Sanya might be prone to choking(faltering during races for emotional/psychological reasons rather than physical/training related reasons)? Even though she won the gold medal in London I think that was a complete choke. She was just fortunate to be on the winning side of it. There is no way Clyde and Sanya planned a 49.55 race in training knowing that Russian girls had run 49.16 and 49.28 at champs and I know Sanya was working her ass off all spring and summer.

For an explanantion of her subpar time in London, all you have to do is look at Sanya's history of running 400's with rest (eg. invitational circuit races, chempionship races with a rest day between the semi and the final) and look at her history of running 400's without rest and you'll find your answer.
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby mump boy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:03 am

fasttrack85 wrote:I have to disagree with you on this. There is no way that Sanya and Clyde plannd a 49.55 race just no way. Monthso had run a 49.54 in July, Krivoshapka had already run 49.42 and 49.16, Guschina had run 49.28, not to mention 49.55 is not completely out of the realm of Novlene, TBO, and Dee Dee Trotter. I am almost positive Sanya had a 49 flat race plan. If she ran 49.28 at US trials why would she run slower when all her major competiton are non Americans. Think about it. My question is what if Antonina had showed up ready to run another 49.16? Are you saying that Clyde and Sanya didn't get any news of Russian Champs?


That's not what i'm saying at all. Firstly i said that she may not have executed her plan correctly Secondly she was running off other people as she had done all year, if others had run faster then i believe Sanya would have as well
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby mump boy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:12 am

Speedster wrote:Personally I would rather see her run the 100m/200m after 10 years of running the 400m internationally. She looked great over the 200m this year and if she'd been fresher in the trials or olympic final, I think a sub 22 wouldn't have been out of the question.


This ^^
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:37 am

mump boy wrote:Secondly she was running off other people as she had done all year, if others had run faster then i believe Sanya would have as well

I don't think Sanya was "running off other people". Clyde Hart convinced her to quit running other people's race three years ago because all it did was cost her at inopportune times. Since then Sanya has treated her 400 races as time trials. The only thing that was missing London compared to recent races was power in the final 100. When Sanya set her 2009 SB of 48.94 in Zurich, she ran the first 200 in 23.7. In London she ran the first 200 in 23.7 but only ran 49.55. You do the math.
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby fasttrack85 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:42 am

I am not sure if Sanya could have went faster simply because others went faster in London. She saw Dee Dee ahead of her and basically caught her 10 meters from the line and wasn't even sure she had won. So my guess is if Antonina had gotten too far ahead Sanya might not have been able to run ehr down.

To speedster.... You make a good point. It could be that Sanya really didn't put much faith in Antonina's fast times. However it is really hard to tell whether Antonina ran out of gas in the semifinals or just eased up.Like Shelly vs Sanya in the 200 semi's it seemed Shelly got run down by Sanya but she just wasn't willing to give that last 5 percent at the cost of the final and it payed off.
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby fasttrack85 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:11 am

Marlow I am aware that sub 22 is harder to come by than sub 11 o sub 50. There is rarely ever a year when the world leading mark for the 100 is not below 11 or below 50 in the 400. However there have been many years when the world leading 200 mark for womens is 22.xx. However Sanya is not only a sub 11 sub 50 she is a sub 11 sub 49. I would think she would be as threatening if not more than Allyson in the final 100. Can you imagine if VCB or Shelly were sub 51 not to mention sub 50 or good knows sub 49? Everyone might as well pack their bags and find a new event.

I do slightly agree with the posters who said she may have had a sub 22 in her this year. Her New York race was unforutnate because she had a slight head wind and her chance to break sub 22 was a bit hampered in both the Trials finals and Oly Finals because of the 400 that preceded it. I also feel that she works a bit too hard in her semi's. She ran faster in her semi's at both trials(22.15 vs 22.22) and oly's(22.30 vs 22.39). I think if she ever attempts that double again she needs to be content with a second place finish if she is up against someone like Felix, Jeter, VCB, or SAFP. She is the only one with the disadvantage of running a harder event first so she will def feel it more by the finals.
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby Speedster » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:06 am

fasttrack85 wrote:To speedster.... You make a good point. It could be that Sanya really didn't put much faith in Antonina's fast times. However it is really hard to tell whether Antonina ran out of gas in the semifinals or just eased up.Like Shelly vs Sanya in the 200 semi's it seemed Shelly got run down by Sanya but she just wasn't willing to give that last 5 percent at the cost of the final and it payed off.


The Russian looked spent after the heats and semi, she ran really strange race patterns, similar to what SRR might have been accused of in the past, way too fast too early and didn't look all that confident walking off the track.

SRR does work hard in her 200m semis, I wonder if its her way of mentally preparing herself or showing that she's got the strength to run people down? She was always an outside chance of medalling in London in the 200m after the 400m.

I still want to see a season of her running the 100m/200m to see what she's capable of, this year showed the talent and speed is there, its just if she can take the risk. What else has she really go to achieve in the 400m with World Gold, OIympic Gold, AR etc?
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby athleticshushmail » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:25 pm

In Helsinki in 2005, she would have easily won gold if she would have coasted from 100-250, but she didn't, ran out of gas, and the Caribbean athlete Darling beat her. She also looked emotionally distraught after the race. Also, Michael Johnson called her out on her strategy. She has ties to Baylor track, where I think she still may train. My guess is that she has the same coach he does. Many people on this thread have also pointed out her Beijing race. I think her current strategy is her best one.
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Re: Questions about Sanya Richards Ross

Postby GDAWG » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:27 pm

athleticshushmail wrote:In Helsinki in 2005, she would have easily won gold if she would have coasted from 100-250, but she didn't, ran out of gas, and the Caribbean athlete Darling beat her. She also looked emotionally distraught after the race. Also, Michael Johnson called her out on her strategy. She has ties to Baylor track, where I think she still may train. My guess is that she has the same coach he does. Many people on this thread have also pointed out her Beijing race. I think her current strategy is her best one.


SRR's coach is Clyde Hart, who coached Johnson. Her training partner is Jeremy Wariner.
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