Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?


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Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:00 am

This article says that he's been working extra hard to improve his blocking skills this summer. I get the impression that he's decided that football is where he'll focus his attention next year. Having trained side-by-side with Richard Thompson for the last four years, he should have a good feel for what it would take to succeed in pro track and whether or not he has it.

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-foo ... ays-off-09
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Postby Pego » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:11 am

I've said it before, I'll say it again. TH is a superb sprinter, marginal football player.
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Postby Marlow » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:29 am

Can, yes, will, probably not. There's a niche for hyper-quick slot players. He'd have to have superb hands and the ability to take huge shots. Agility (cutting) wouldn't even be as important as those two things.
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Postby 502CD » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:44 am

If they expand the rosters like they're discussing then you'd start seeing more specialty guys making teams.
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Postby TrackDaddy » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:47 pm

Darren Sproles is making a living.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat May 15, 2010 4:41 am

The answer is "yes".
The Houston Texans have reached a contract agreement with sixth-rould draft pick Trindon Holliday, a return specialist, receiver and runningback from LSU.

NFL sources told FOX 26 Sports Holliday agrees to a four-year contract worth $1.88 million.


Congratulations Trindon!
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby Dutra » Sat May 15, 2010 6:22 am

For those unaware....the vast majority of that money is not likely guaranteed. In all likelihood he'll get either a signing bonus or roster bonus of $100k or so.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat May 15, 2010 6:38 am

Dutra wrote:For those unaware....the vast majority of that money is not likely guaranteed. In all likelihood he'll get either a signing bonus or roster bonus of $100k or so.

If he sticks around for four years, he shouldn't make much less than that amount since the minimum wage for 2010 is $325,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_F ... e#Salaries
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby Avante » Sun May 16, 2010 8:44 am

Nolan "Super Gnat" Smith
"Mini" Mac Herron
Walter "The Flea" Roberts
Lionel "Little Train" James
Howard Stevens

....were all pint sized players without Holliday's great speed who did make NFL rosters. Will Holliday be a star....no! Can he play special teams and be a third down option and an occasionally change of pace back....sure! Will he have a long and productive career...probably not. I think he'll play a few years then when a step is lost...see ya~~~
Last edited by Avante on Sun May 16, 2010 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby Dutra » Sun May 16, 2010 9:45 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Dutra wrote:For those unaware....the vast majority of that money is not likely guaranteed. In all likelihood he'll get either a signing bonus or roster bonus of $100k or so.

If he sticks around for four years, he shouldn't make much less than that amount since the minimum wage for 2010 is $325,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_F ... e#Salaries


Which wasn't my point.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby nunusguy » Fri May 28, 2010 1:56 pm

Texans fan here. Gary Kubiak, Texans coach, has indicated that he's gonna try to use Holliday as both punt and kickoff return guy. I'm thinking he mainly returned kickoffs at LSU, but not sure ?
Problem is sticking on the roster if one can only do Special teams, so they're hoping he might
work in as a slot receiver to, perhaps a running back in special situations to increase his versitility and thereby his value and ability to make the final 53 ?
I watched a couple of his 100 meters on Youtube, and he finished strong in both of those events, which surprised me ? I thought he was all about the start (often the case with diminutive sprinters like him), and perhaps was caught on a regular basis in the last 20 or 30 meters of his 100s if he didn't get out of the blocs in spectacular fashion, but not the case in the races I saw ?
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:03 pm

This doesn't sound good.

(on his overall impressions of WR Trindon Holliday)
He is what we thought he was as far as his talent and all that. But in this league he's going to have to play wide receiver so he's got a long, long way to go. He's way behind. He's got a long way to go to prove to this team that he knows what the hell he's doing. It's probably not a good day to ask me that question.


(on what he means about WR Trindon Holliday having a long way to go)
Well, I don't know how much offense he played there (LSU) from the standpoint of what was expected of him. There are not many specialists in this business. You better know what you're doing to cross a board. So he's getting plenty of reps as wide receiver. We're down to seven guys right now as we work. He's going to have to prove to these guys that he's keeping up. That's what's going on.


http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story ... ry_id=6188
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:42 am

For those who missed it, here's Holliday, the fastest man in the history of football, scroing his first regular season NFL touchdown while setting a Broncos franchise record for longest kick return. Notice how all the Bengals players gave up on chasing him 50 yards away from the endzone.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap20000 ... -the-house
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby Pego » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:01 am

jazzcyclist wrote:For those who missed it, here's Holliday, the fastest man in the history of football, scroing his first regular season NFL touchdown while setting a Broncos franchise record for longest kick return. Notice how all the Bengals players gave up on chasing him 50 yards away from the endzone.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap20000 ... -the-house


Does anybody have sprinting credentials for Mike Wallace? He seems pretty fast. His TD against the Giants was poetry in motion.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby gh » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:41 am

jazzcyclist wrote:For those who missed it, here's Holliday, the fastest man in the history of football,...


You mean "fastest man not named Bob Hayes" of course.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:23 am

gh wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:For those who missed it, here's Holliday, the fastest man in the history of football,...


You mean "fastest man not named Bob Hayes" of course.

10.00>10.06
:wink:

I know, i know. Mondo, coaching, training, nutrution, creatine, etc. . . . .
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:09 am

jazzcyclist wrote:10.00>10.06
:wink:


That is right 10.00 is greater, i.e., slower, than 10.06. Those two are not even in the same league, much less is Holliday's mark superior.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:11 am

26mi235 wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:10.00>10.06
:wink:


That is right 10.00 is greater, i.e., slower, than 10.06. Those two are not even in the same league, much less is Holliday's mark superior.

I figured a wisenheimer mathematician might say this so let me be precise in my language.

A 10.00 FAT performance is superior to a 10.06 FAT performance. :mrgreen:
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby Pego » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:08 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
26mi235 wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:10.00>10.06
:wink:


That is right 10.00 is greater, i.e., slower, than 10.06. Those two are not even in the same league, much less is Holliday's mark superior.

I figured a wisenheimer mathematician might say this so let me be precise in my language.

A 10.00 FAT performance is superior to a 10.06 FAT performance. :mrgreen:


Racing side-by-side under the same conditions, you would not bet on Holliday beating Hayes, now would you :wink: ?
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:22 am

Pego wrote:Racing side-by-side under the same conditions, you would not bet on Holliday beating Hayes, now would you :wink: ?

If by same conditons, you mean training, nutrition and track surface, of course not. Did you not read my fine print?
:wink:
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby Pego » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:42 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Pego wrote:Racing side-by-side under the same conditions, you would not bet on Holliday beating Hayes, now would you :wink: ?

If by same conditons, you mean training, nutrition and track surface, of course not. Did you not read my fine print?
:wink:


I think track surface alone would suffice.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby gh » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:47 am

jazzcyclist wrote:....

A 10.00 FAT performance is superior to a 10.06 FAT performance. :mrgreen:


it may be faster, but not superior! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:26 am

Pego wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
Pego wrote:Racing side-by-side under the same conditions, you would not bet on Holliday beating Hayes, now would you :wink: ?

If by same conditons, you mean training, nutrition and track surface, of course not. Did you not read my fine print?
:wink:


I think track surface alone would suffice.


Holliday might be as fast as those world top-5 sprinters he ran against in the anchor leg, maybe even give him 0.1 on them. That leaves about, what, another half second differential. People who know more than me seem to indicate that Bolt is the first one that they think is clearly better than Hayes was (and Hayes stopped early) and Holliday is not remotely in Bolt's class or the one just behind him.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:47 am

26mi235 wrote:Holliday might be as fast as those world top-5 sprinters he ran against in the anchor leg, maybe even give him 0.1 on them. That leaves about, what, another half second differential.

:?
0.5s? Come on man! That would mean that Hayes would be running 9.50 if he were around today. Do you really believe that? Also, the history of college sprinters suggests that Holliday would have eventually knocked another 0.10s to 0.20s off his college PR had he had chosen pro track over pro football.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby gh » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:35 pm

at his height, I'm guessing not.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:51 pm

I don't see how his height is relevant to the fact that very, very few sprinters in the history of the sport failed to improve on the college PR's once they became pros. Add to this the fact that Holliday was splitting his time with football and it doesn't seem plausible that he peaked out while at LSU.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby gh » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:09 pm

If a guy who was 6-foot-6 jumped 7-2 in college and his 5-foot-10 teammate did also, which one do you think would have the better PR 4 years down the road? And no, that's not apples & oranges.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:16 pm

1) I think it is somewhat an apples and orange argument, since center of gravity is a big factor in high jumping, but not in sprinting.

2) Even with the example of high jumping, you don't seem to be implying that the shorter guy's PR won't improve after college, so why do you think a short sprinter's PR won't improve after college. Keep in mind, I'm not arguing whether or not taller athletes have more post-collegiate upside. A while back I remember glancing over some stats which showed that quite a number of 400 runners never improved of their college PR's but that wasn't the case for the 100, in which practically everyone improved on their college PR's. For example, Mike Rodgers, a pretty short guy, went from 10.10 to 9.85, and Michael Frater went from 10.06 to 9.88. Why do you think Holliday would be immune to this phenomenon?
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby bambam » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:37 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
26mi235 wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:10.00>10.06
:wink:


That is right 10.00 is greater, i.e., slower, than 10.06. Those two are not even in the same league, much less is Holliday's mark superior.

I figured a wisenheimer mathematician might say this so let me be precise in my language.

A 10.00 FAT performance is superior to a 10.06 FAT performance. :mrgreen:


Not one on modern tracks when compared to Hayes running on red clay cinders, that were muddy from the rain, and all chewed up in lane 1 from the 20K walk that had taken place earlier that day. They're not remotely comparable.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby preston » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:13 pm

So let me get this straight...Hayes was a 9.5x/9.6x guy? Then what would the rest of the '64 finalists be? I mean they all ran on the same track in the same conditions (though we're to believe that lane 1 was sooooo chewed up... :roll: )

1 Bob Hayes United States 10.0 seconds ≈ 9.5x/9.6x
2 Enrique Figuerola Cuba 10.2 seconds ≈ 9.7x/9.8x
3 Harry Jerome Canada 10.2 seconds ≈ 9.7x/9.8x
4 Wiesław Maniak Poland 10.4 seconds ≈ 9.9x/10.0x
5 Heinz Schumann Germany 10.4 seconds ≈ 9.9x/10.0x
6 Gaoussou Kone Côte d'Ivoire 10.4 seconds ≈ 9.9x/10.0x
7 Mel Pender United States 10.4 seconds ≈ 9.9x/10.0x
8 Tom Robinson Bahamas 10.5 seconds ≈ 10.0x/10.1x

Maniak and Schumann were the first sub-10 Europeans?
Harry Jerome faster than Bailey and Surin?
Figuerola potentially faster than Asafa Powell?
Kone the first African sub-10?

I will concede that Hayes was great but we have to stop trying to compare out of era.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:54 pm

bambam wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
26mi235 wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:10.00>10.06
:wink:


That is right 10.00 is greater, i.e., slower, than 10.06. Those two are not even in the same league, much less is Holliday's mark superior.

I figured a wisenheimer mathematician might say this so let me be precise in my language.

A 10.00 FAT performance is superior to a 10.06 FAT performance. :mrgreen:


Not one on modern tracks when compared to Hayes running on red clay cinders, that were muddy from the rain, and all chewed up in lane 1 from the 20K walk that had taken place earlier that day. They're not remotely comparable.

I guess I didn't use enough emoticons and small type to get my point across. :(
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby bambam » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:34 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:I guess I didn't use enough emoticons and small type to get my point across. :(


Yeah, I didn't see your fine print until you referred to it in a later post.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby gh » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:09 am

jazzcyclist wrote:1) I think it is somewhat an apples and orange argument, since center of gravity is a big factor in high jumping, but not in sprinting.

2) Even with the example of high jumping, you don't seem to be implying that the shorter guy's PR won't improve after college, so why do you think a short sprinter's PR won't improve after college. Keep in mind, I'm not arguing whether or not taller athletes have more post-collegiate upside. A while back I remember glancing over some stats which showed that quite a number of 400 runners never improved of their college PR's but that wasn't the case for the 100, in which practically everyone improved on their college PR's. For example, Mike Rodgers, a pretty short guy, went from 10.10 to 9.85, and Michael Frater went from 10.06 to 9.88. Why do you think Holliday would be immune to this phenomenon?


Rodgers is almost 4 inches (10cm) taller than Holliday. They're not remotely in the same physical boat. And Frater is in between them. But even if you find somebody Holliday's size who is that fast, doesn't change my position. There's always an outlier, but there aren't many, and logic says there's no reason to expect Holliday to be one.

My take would be that there's two ways to run 10-flat (to pull a round number out of the air, that also happens to be Holliday's PR): short guys with incredible turnover who lead at halfway, and tall long-legged guys who are slow out of the blocks but in the second half can maintain speed with their huge stride.

Some tall guys (see Bolt, Usain) can master quick starts and get faster than 10-flat. Short guys can't find a way to make their legs longer at the end of the race.

That's a very simplified picture of what I'm trying to convey.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby preston » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:56 am

jazz, I'm gonna have to go with gh. I see your point, but your stretching it. Frater has run 9.88 once and took quite a few years to get there. He's mostly a 10.x sprinter with some sub-10 exceptions. If I had to pick that "short sprinter" to use as a case it would be Andre Cason and he was basically like Frater - but better. And aside from his windy 9.8x he was a 10.0x guy with the occasional sub-10 (Frater might have more subs than Cason...).
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:29 am

preston wrote:jazz, I'm gonna have to go with gh. I see your point, but your stretching it. Frater has run 9.88 once and took quite a few years to get there. He's mostly a 10.x sprinter with some sub-10 exceptions. If I had to pick that "short sprinter" to use as a case it would be Andre Cason and he was basically like Frater - but better. And aside from his windy 9.8x he was a 10.0x guy with the occasional sub-10 (Frater might have more subs than Cason...).

Bolt has only run 9.59 once so what's your point? PR's are by definition outliers. Trindon's 10.00 was not an outlier. He has multiple 10.00's and 10.01's on his resume as well as a 10.02. In the 2009 NCAA final, he had a horrific reaction time and got left in the blocks, but due to his much improved top-end, which was lacking in previous years, he was able to walk down the field, and in the last 15 metes it looked like the rest of the field was going backwards. His unrounded time was 9.991s and had he had a normal reaction time, he likely would have run an official 9.98.

I fully understand what gh is saying about shorter sprinters being physiologically suited for better starts and taller sprinters being physiologically suited for better finishes, and that shorter sprinters rely on faster turnover while taller sprinter rely on longer stride length. Hell, everyone on this board knows those things. But what I categorically reject is gh's theory that had Holliday chosen pro track over pro football, he would have been physiologically incapable of improving on his college PR over the next three to four years as a full-time track guy because he was one or two inches shorter than guys who did improve on their college times. Just the fact that he ran multiple 10.00's in his second to last meet, one with only 0.3 m/s tailwind tells me that he had to have a little upside left. What is it about 5'5" that's So different than 5'6" or 5'7"? By the way, I seriously doubt that 5'9" is Rodger's real height.
Last edited by jazzcyclist on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby Marlow » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:40 am

jazzcyclist wrote:I fully understand what gh is saying about shorter sprinters being physiologically suited for better starts and taller sprinters being physiologically suited for better finishes, and that shorter sprinters rely on faster turnover while taller sprinter rely on longer stride frequency. Hell, everyone on this board knows those things.

You meant to say 'length', not frequency. I disagree with the notion that longer-legged sprinters automatically have a longer stride length. Stride length is as much correlated to leg strength as leg length (it rhymes!). A shorter stronger leg frequently has a longer stride than a longer, (relatively) weaker leg. Also factored in there is total body weight. A short, very strong, lighter sprinter can run plenty fast! Plus . . . taller, 'skinnier' sprinters sometimes can NOT pack on the muscle necessary to optimize their stride length. I was born with relatively strong (but slim) legs that served me well in running and jumping, but when we got in the weight room in college, I found out that virtually everyone else could achieve much greater strength gains than I.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:39 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:I fully understand what gh is saying about shorter sprinters being physiologically suited for better starts and taller sprinters being physiologically suited for better finishes, and that shorter sprinters rely on faster turnover while taller sprinter rely on longer stride frequency. Hell, everyone on this board knows those things.

You meant to say 'length', not frequency.

Oops! :oops:
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:07 pm

The fastest man in the history of football (FMHF) scored another touchdown today, this time on a 76-yard punt return.
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby Marlow » Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:52 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:The fastest man in the history of football (FMHF) scored another touchdown today, this time on a 76-yard punt return.

Nice! Speed kills.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/v ... fb4c64c689
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Re: Can Trindon Holliday make it in the NFL?

Postby Blues » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:25 am

jazzcyclist wrote:The fastest man in the history of football (FMHF) scored another touchdown today, this time on a 76-yard punt return.


Nice return, but there are some who feel that maybe the TD shouldn't have counted and that Carolina deserved the ball on the 20 since Trindon may have been a split second premature in giving up the ball...

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... --nfl.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/1 ... 14241.html
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