nyc marathon and weather

[az2004]

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if you really want do do a marathon november 18, while it's not new york it is 26.2

[Dutra5]

The Post cover itself intensified the public sentiment against holding the marathon.

Just seems to me the media is looking for scapegoats there. Those power outages are the local utilities company's fault for not taking care of their infrastructure; they are not the marathoner's fault.

You've got to be kidding.

It's real simple. There are still plenty of residents of the area without power, homes, food, gas and assorted other facets of the basic necessities of living in a normal fashion yet some believe that there is any relative importance to running a race which, when it gets down to the core is basically all about feeling good about ourselves?

Some of these nitwits I read about and see whining and crying about not being able to run a race really need an education in perspective.

[tandfman]

The most difficult thing about holding the race would have been the start which takes place in Staten Island. The visual of runners running past all that carnage would not have looked good on TV.

The runners would not have run past the carnage. The race starts at the foot of the bridge. When it's not filled with runners, it's just a huge toll plaza. That's not where the carnage was, and so if the carnage were visible to the tv audience at all, it would only be because some director inserted video clips of something that happened, or was happening, elsewhere on Staten Island.

[guru]

Actor Anson Mount walking the walk. After railing against the marathon before it's cancellation, working today with relief efforts on Staten Island. Anyone planning to help can get a pretty good idea what's needed by following his twitter feed.

https://twitter.com/ansonmount

[ExCoastRanger]

They likely did not train for the better part of a year with this one event as their singular focus. And they probably already have offers (or agents seeking offers) for all-expenses-paid trips to other races in the coming weeks.
For the elites this is an inconvenience at the worst.

You don't seem to have a grasp on what world-class marathoning involves these days.

Actually I think I have a pretty good grasp -- for a fan -- of how things work at the pro level. I sympathize with their situation. And 26mi's point about a missed payday is taken. But these are Olympic medal winners and world-list leaders we're talking about here. They will find another payday.

What I have a really good grasp on is what it's like to try to balance more than full-time work and family, train your ass off, try to eke out of a rigid schedule a few irrevocable and unpaid days off, and try to budget for the event and the travel to and from event. Maybe, as somebody else said, it is a glorified vacation for many, but it may be the only one some of those folks get or can afford for the whole year. And for something like the NYC Marathon, they could be missing a once-in-a-lifetime experience. It's hard to get all those stars aligned and ducks in a row.

[26mi235]

I do not know if you are being facetious or not, but the elites get very few paydays and this was one of them. How about if you did not get paid for the next half of the year?

Do they not get paid at all? In other words, do the contracts they sign give the event organizer the option to arbitrarily cancel the event?

Read Jazz's comment above. Much of their earnings come directly from the few big races, not from sponsorship dollars. Also, if they are not running this race, then they have less to pin their base to for sponsorship dollars.

[j-a-m]

Read Jazz's comment above. Much of their earnings come directly from the few big races, not from sponsorship dollars. Also, if they are not running this race, then they have less to pin their base to for sponsorship dollars.

Yeah, I agree with you that this is a big issue for the elite runners.

I was just wondering if they have some legal claim against NYRR (or whoever the event organizer is). I assume there's a contract between NYRR and elite runners that establishes in which scenarios NYRR doesn't have to pay them, and I was just curious whether it's obvious that the current scenario is covered by that.

[jazzcyclist]

What I have a really good grasp on is what it's like to try to balance more than full-time work and family, train your ass off, try to eke out of a rigid schedule a few irrevocable and unpaid days off, and try to budget for the event and the travel to and from event. Maybe, as somebody else said, it is a glorified vacation for many, but it may be the only one some of those folks get or can afford for the whole year. And for something like the NYC Marathon, they could be missing a once-in-a-lifetime experience. It's hard to get all those stars aligned and ducks in a row.

I agree with all of this. It is a big loss and disappointment for the serious amateurs, but that's no reason to trivialize the loss for the pros. FYI, in their heyday, runners of the caliber of Paula Radcliffe and Haile Gebreselassie were reportedly getting appearance fees in the $300,000 -$500,000 range. That's serious money for a distance runner. You can't make that working at McDonald's

[TN1965]

This NYT article suggests it's hard for the elites to find a "replacement" race, because the elite fields for upcoming marathons in November and December are already set, and the organizers do not have the extra money to invite additional runners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/sport ... money.html

[ExCoastRanger]

Did not mean to trivialize the pros.
Crappy situation all around.

[26mi235]

Read Jazz's comment above. Much of their earnings come directly from the few big races, not from sponsorship dollars. Also, if they are not running this race, then they have less to pin their base to for sponsorship dollars.

Yeah, I agree with you that this is a big issue for the elite runners.

I was just wondering if they have some legal claim against NYRR (or whoever the event organizer is). I assume there's a contract between NYRR and elite runners that establishes in which scenarios NYRR doesn't have to pay them, and I was just curious whether it's obvious that the current scenario is covered by that.

NYRR is a very big operation, not some small-scale race promoter. They are in a very litigious area. I think that their attorneys probably have reasonable elements in contracts with the elite runners.

Why are people speculating so widely (and wildly) with very little knowledge of the full situation. Just sit back and see what happens, it is not like you have to get a jump on knowing what might occur.

[Al in NYC]

The Post cover itself intensified the public sentiment against holding the marathon.

Just seems to me the media is looking for scapegoats there. Those power outages are the local utilities company's fault for not taking care of their infrastructure; they are not the marathoner's fault.

You're joking, right? This was a hurricane with 90 MPH winds that created a 7 to 15 foot storm surge that hit at high tide during a full moon. There's not a power system anywhere that is designed to handle something like that.

No, it isn't the fault of marathon runners, but neither is it the fault of the hundreds of thousands of people who are without electricity or heat (and it was in the 30s this morning), and the thousands of people whose homes have been destroyed.

The way the marathon was cancelled was stupidly handled. It should have happened several days earlier when it was clear just how devastating the storm had been, which would have saved everyone a lot of problems. But cancelling the marathon was not stupid, and was the only right thing to do.

Of course, the NYRR botched even the aftermath of the marathon cancellation by shipping their generators back to the warehouse, rather than out to somewhere where they are desperately needed (for example, the 12 story 240 unit apartment building in Rockaway I was delivering supplies to yesterday, which is primarily occupied by senior citizens and has had no power, heat, or hot water since Monday), and then sending out a release to the runners that blamed the cancellation on the media. It is astounding just how utterly clueless Wittenberg and the NYRR people have been during this whole fiasco.

[j-a-m]

You're joking, right? This was a hurricane with 90 MPH winds that created a 7 to 15 foot storm surge that hit at high tide during a full moon. There's not a power system anywhere that is designed to handle something like that.

I wasn't talking about power outages for a couple days that can of course be expected following such a storm. I'm not in NYC, but from the media coverage it seems those outages are expected to last for weeks. And with respect to that, I would put significant blame on Con Ed (or whatever the utilties company is).

And if Con Ed doesn't manage to turn power back on within a week, then I'd consider it their responsibility to find backup generators. So when a newspaper blames a lack of electricity one week after the hurricane on someone else, then yeah, they're just looking for scapegoats.

[Conor Dary]

It is astounding just how utterly clueless Wittenberg and the NYRR people have been during this whole fiasco.

Phil Hersh gets it right.

It took far too long for Bloomberg and Mary Wittenberg, chief executive of the race organizers, to understand that the wrong-headed decision to go ahead with the event was an obscene gesture and slap in the face at Staten Islanders – and all other New Yorkers whose lives have been turned upside down by the storm.

By her failure to realize that, Wittenberg had become Witlessberg, no matter that she had the mayor’s irrational and inexplicable imprimatur to proceed.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012 ... -bloomberg

Especially with reports like this:

Less than 48 hours before the race, the list of politicians calling for it to be canceled was growing. Online petitions were ballooning and protests were being planned. Reports circulated that volunteers setting up equipment had been pelted with eggs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/05/sport ... ref=sports

[Al in NYC]

You're joking, right? This was a hurricane with 90 MPH winds that created a 7 to 15 foot storm surge that hit at high tide during a full moon. There's not a power system anywhere that is designed to handle something like that.

I wasn't talking about power outages for a couple days that can of course be expected following such a storm. I'm not in NYC, but from the media coverage it seems those outages are expected to last for weeks. And with respect to that, I would put significant blame on Con Ed (or whatever the utilties company is).

And if Con Ed doesn't manage to turn power back on within a week, then I'd consider it their responsibility to find backup generators. So when a newspaper blames a lack of electricity one week after the hurricane on someone else, then yeah, they're just looking for scapegoats.

I would kindly suggest that your comments show that you don't really have any concept of the scale of the damage or the problems the storm caused here.

[jazzcyclist]

Phil Hersh gets it right.


Especially with reports like this:

Reports circulated that volunteers setting up equipment had been pelted with eggs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/05/sport ... ref=sports

Pelting the volunteers with eggs? That's pretty pathetic IMO. That makes me less sympathetic to storm victims, not more.

[guru]

Pelting the volunteers with eggs? That's pretty pathetic IMO.

If it actually happened, which is dubious when the source is "reports circulated"

That makes me less sympathetic to storm victims.

Even if it did happen, you think it was storm victims that were doing the pelting? My guess is any storm victims that had access to eggs would eat them, on the spot.

[Bruce Kritzler]

But it's ok for NFL and NBA games to go on?

[jazzcyclist]

I wasn't talking about power outages for a couple days that can of course be expected following such a storm. I'm not in NYC, but from the media coverage it seems those outages are expected to last for weeks. And with respect to that, I would put significant blame on Con Ed (or whatever the utilties company is).

And if Con Ed doesn't manage to turn power back on within a week, then I'd consider it their responsibility to find backup generators. So when a newspaper blames a lack of electricity one week after the hurricane on someone else, then yeah, they're just looking for scapegoats.

As someone who lives in an area that is regularly hit with hurricanes, you obviously don't have a clue about the monumental challenges that power companies must deal with after a storm of this magnitude, EVEN when they're fully prepared for the storm. Before Hurricane Gustav hit, the parking lots of the local hotels and motels were full of utility trucks from all over the country, driven by thousands of utility workers ready to go to work after the storm passed, but it still took weeks for for many people to get power back. As a matter of fact, it took weeks before some roads were even passible due to all the trees that had to be clear out of the way.

[jazzcyclist]

Even if it did happen, you think it was storm victims that were doing the pelting? My guess is any storm victims that had access to eggs would eat them, on the spot.

Are you being funny or do you really believe it's plausible that folks from areas unaffected by the storm traveled to the storm affected areas just to throw eggs at race volunteers?

[guru]

Even if it did happen, you think it was storm victims that were doing the pelting? My guess is any storm victims that had access to eggs would eat them, on the spot.

Are you being funny or do you really believe it's plausible that folks from areas unaffected by the storm traveled to the storm affected areas just to throw eggs at race volunteers?

I have no clue what you just said, but I do know it's NOT plausible that victims traveled from shelters or their destroyed homes just to pelt race volunteers(keeping in mind you said the reported pelting make you less sympathetic to the victims)

[jazzcyclist]

I have no clue what you just said, but I do know it's NOT plausible that victims traveled from shelters or their destroyed homes just to pelt race volunteers(keeping in mind you said the reported pelting make you less sympathetic to the victims)

Ah, now comes predictable dissembling and obfuscation. The bottom line is that you don't know who alledgedly pelted race volunteers with eggs, so why did you try to come up with some far-fetched theory about outsiders who weren't storm victims doing it?

[guru]

I have no clue what you just said, but I do know it's NOT plausible that victims traveled from shelters or their destroyed homes just to pelt race volunteers(keeping in mind you said the reported pelting make you less sympathetic to the victims)

Ah, now comes predictable dissembling and obfuscation. The bottom line is that you don't know who alledgedly pelted race volunteers with eggs, so why did you try to come up with some far-fetched theory about outsiders who weren't storm victims doing it?

Oh, so you ARE saying that people would leave shelters, and from salvaging what they can from their destroyed homes, to seek out marathon volunteers for egg pelting.

Okie doke...

[Al in NYC]

The Times story makes clear that, while the NYRR and Wittenberg acted rather cluelessly, they had reached the right decision by Friday morning and it was our often-too-stubborn-for-his-own-good Mayor who held out to nearly the very last minute. Whatever his other qualities as a Mayor, Bloomberg sometimes seems to substitute what he thinks should be happening for the reality of what is actually going on.

The story - rather irresponsibly in my view - says only that "reports circulated" about the egging of volunteers and equipment, which is far from a confirmation that such a thing actually happened. However, I have no doubt that there would have been active protests, and perhaps even disruptions, of the race had it gone on. Such was the tide of anger here in the hard-hit outer boroughs over what was seen as a typically high-handed Manahattan-centric decision to hold the race despite the ongoing human disaster unfolding nearby.

[Dutra5]

You're joking, right? This was a hurricane with 90 MPH winds that created a 7 to 15 foot storm surge that hit at high tide during a full moon. There's not a power system anywhere that is designed to handle something like that.

I wasn't talking about power outages for a couple days that can of course be expected following such a storm. I'm not in NYC, but from the media coverage it seems those outages are expected to last for weeks. And with respect to that, I would put significant blame on Con Ed (or whatever the utilties company is).

And if Con Ed doesn't manage to turn power back on within a week, then I'd consider it their responsibility to find backup generators. So when a newspaper blames a lack of electricity one week after the hurricane on someone else, then yeah, they're just looking for scapegoats.

As another who lives in an area prone to hurricanes, I will back jazzy's comments that you really have no clue as to the scope involved in repaired the damage under these circumstances. In addition to the available local equipment, power trucks from many parts of the country were mobilized into the area....which for those unaware is normal course of business....yet the area involved is so wide ranging that repairing the damage above and below ground is a monumental task.

But yeah....continue to propose your own uninformed deadlines on the situation.

[Dutra5]

The Times story makes clear that, while the NYRR and Wittenberg acted rather cluelessly, they had reached the right decision by Friday morning and it was our often-too-stubborn-for-his-own-good Mayor who held out to nearly the very last minute. Whatever his other qualities as a Mayor, Bloomberg sometimes seems to substitute what he thinks should be happening for the reality of what is actually going on.

I think the initial announcement to intend to run the race was simply made too soon as I think too many simply figured the situation would improve in a more expedited fashion than it did. Then they waited likely a day or two too long to change their mind. I think Bloomy was looking for his Guliani moment in declaring that the world is still moving forward and it blew up a bit in his face. He used the 2001 Marathon as an example which was simply stupid since that race was two months beyond the attacks on 9-11. Think about how idiotic it would have looked to run that race looking at things today.

The story - rather irresponsibly in my view - says only that "reports circulated" about the egging of volunteers and equipment, which is far from a confirmation that such a thing actually happened. However, I have no doubt that there would have been active protests, and perhaps even disruptions, of the race had it gone on. Such was the tide of anger here in the hard-hit outer boroughs over what was seen as a typically high-handed Manahattan-centric decision to hold the race despite the ongoing human disaster unfolding nearby.

Exactly.

[j-a-m]

But yeah....continue to propose your own uninformed deadlines on the situation.

At least the Governor of NY seems to agree with me. Andrew Cuomo said about the power companies "that their timeliness in getting power back to their customers would be a reflection of how well they prepared for the storm and how seriously they took their responsibility". Seems to me that's pretty much what I said in my previous posts.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cuomo-ny- ... 27049.html

[Dutra5]

But yeah....continue to propose your own uninformed deadlines on the situation.

At least the Governor of NY seems to agree with me. Andrew Cuomo said about the power companies "that their timeliness in getting power back to their customers would be a reflection of how well they prepared for the storm and how seriously they took their responsibility". Seems to me that's pretty much what I said in my previous posts.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cuomo-ny- ... 27049.html

The good governor didn't put a timeline on it thus didn't agree with you at all.

Again....no clue.

[26mi235]

As another who lives in an area prone to hurricanes, I will back jazzy's comments that you really have no clue as to the scope involved in repaired the damage under these circumstances. In addition to the available local equipment, power trucks from many parts of the country were mobilized into the area....which for those unaware is normal course of business....yet the area involved is so wide ranging that repairing the damage above and below ground is a monumental task.

But yeah....continue to propose your own uninformed deadlines on the situation.

As someone with experience in this industry (having talked with HQ guys who were recruited to go out to a territory several states away a couple of times, (Ivan and Katrina if I recall the conversations correctly). ANd they were there for months, not days.

What makes this situation and the Katrina/Ivan situations so difficult is the size of the area that is devastated. Despite that fact that a large number of crews came in, there are not that many crews per utility service territory because there so many. This ranges from snow-felled trees and line in West Virginia to tidal surge problems in NY and NJ to all the wind damage that felled a huge number of trees or large limbs (we are talking about numbers like a million probably). In many areas getting power to do things is a problem and emergency crews are split between triage and cleanup at first.

Do you know what happens if you re-energize a line prematurely? It is hard to even know if you have fixed everything, as you cannot just go test little bits.

Also standing water 50 feet deep is not a particularly good way to treat a subway station and the lines between stations. How many of those lines are soft in a way that could derail a train after a couple or 20 or 200 trips. Do you want to ride on them before they are fully re-constructed?

[j-a-m]

The good governor didn't put a timeline on it thus didn't agree with you at all.

Actually, he seems even more angry about power companies than I am. "The progress is unacceptable," Cuomo said. "To say that I am angry ... would be the understatement of the decade." And he said that a bit more than a week after the storm, which resembles my sentiment that a "timeline" of weeks instead of days is not acceptable.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/NY-G ... 010338.php

[aaronk]

I have no clue what you just said, but I do know it's NOT plausible that victims traveled from shelters or their destroyed homes just to pelt race volunteers(keeping in mind you said the reported pelting make you less sympathetic to the victims)

Ah, now comes predictable dissembling and obfuscation. The bottom line is that you don't know who alledgedly pelted race volunteers with eggs, so why did you try to come up with some far-fetched theory about outsiders who weren't storm victims doing it?

Oh, so you ARE saying that people would leave shelters, and from salvaging what they can from their destroyed homes, to seek out marathon volunteers for egg pelting.

Okie doke...

Amazing....
and sad.

Just 36-38 hours after the NYC Marathon would have concluded....
and instead of talking about the fast times run...
the major breakthrough by X, Y, or Z athlete...
the records broken...or not broken...


Here we are arguing about whether those who pelted race volunteers with eggs....
had to pack an overnight bag to do so....
or were able to grab a NYC taxicab to get to their "target"!!

S-A-D.

[Dutra5]

The good governor didn't put a timeline on it thus didn't agree with you at all.

Actually, he seems even more angry about power companies than I am. "The progress is unacceptable," Cuomo said. "To say that I am angry ... would be the understatement of the decade." And he said that a bit more than a week after the storm, which resembles my sentiment that a "timeline" of weeks instead of days is not acceptable.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/NY-G ... 010338.php

If that is the case, then you and the Governor can join forces as to being clueless. He has a political legacy to protect. If he decertifies a utility for what he feels is taking too long to repair he most likey doesn't know much about, who's he getting to turn the switches on and off on a daily basis.

[jazzcyclist]

Actually, he seems even more angry about power companies than I am. "The progress is unacceptable," Cuomo said. "To say that I am angry ... would be the understatement of the decade." And he said that a bit more than a week after the storm, which resembles my sentiment that a "timeline" of weeks instead of days is not acceptable.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/NY-G ... 010338.php

If that is the case, then you and the Governor can join forces as to being clueless. He has a political legacy to protect. If he decertifies a utility for what he feels is taking too long to repair he most likey doesn't know much about, who's he getting to turn the switches on and off on a daily basis.

I don't know what type of communication Cuomo has with the power company officials up there, but evidentally it's not very good if he thinks they're dragging their feet on this thing. On the day before Katrina hit New Orleans, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin and the public service commissioner held a joint TV press conference with an Entergy official, and the Entergy official said in the press conference with the governor, mayor and commissioner watching that it would be a minumum of one month before power was restored to New orleans after it was inevitably lost the next day.

[guru]

Hilarious development

http://news.runnersworld.com/2012/11/08 ... on-medals/

Arent finisher medals supposed to be for those who, you know, finish the marathon?


I'm frankly stunned USATF didnt go with Wittenberg for CEO. Seems a match made in heaven...

[az2004]

nov 18 is philly marathon and 3k nyentrants will be added to current race

flst easy course similar to philly half narathon

i'm waitinf for the really big earthquake to devastate california , BIG ONE, to see whar happens to them, not the 1906 sf one, but a state wide catasropne

people are not understanfing how big sandy was, eventually the one in 200 years hits, or a metror hits, and everything gets wiped out

i know people without power for the 2 weeks now, and life is not pleasant for them aat all