2012 College Football


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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby preston » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:29 am

The squirm begins ...

you've moved from "bcs eligible" to "bowl eligibility"? Well, at least you realize that I was right about nd and the BCS. Anyway, I didn't start hating nd since they formulated the new BCS rules in 2006; I've hated nd for a long time. I said it, you said different...you prove that I'm wrong, I don't have to prove that I'm right - even though I am. If I were you, I would start looking before the Bowl Coalition and the Bowl Alliance, the forefathers of the BCS, and after. You will find, if you find all of the old rules, that nd did indeed have special stipulations or that rules were made specifically to accomodate nd.

jazzcyclist wrote:I'm going to go out on the limb and say that you're the only college football fan in America that has any interest in seeing Louisville matched up with an undefeated Alabama, Oregon, Kansas State or Notre Dame. Louisville should be grateful to even play in a BCS bowl with so many close wins despite their pathetic schedule.

statements like that weaken your entire argument. I'm the only college football fan? :roll: The same has been said about Boise State, BYU and a host of others. If you win all your games then you should be in the conversation. I would rather watch Louisville than nd play any of the other teams, or any other team.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:35 am

preston wrote:
Marlow wrote:
preston wrote: google "BCS Notre Dame rule" ... read up on whatever comes up, and don't report back...we don't need you to start sliding, qualifying and saying "what I had meant to say was"... The fact remains that there are special rules for ND.

I follow your reasoning (though the rule [DOES NOT refer] to any independent), but I'm amused by one of the first google hits:

Meanwhile, some delusional non-Irish fans think that somehow, someway Notre Dame has a BCS “rule” that bestows preferential treatment. Nothing is further from the truth.

Marlow,

Your post is so wrong that I purposely amended it so that others reading it don't begin to believe it. Notre Dame, not "any" independent, has it's own tie-in. You need to google further.

Both Army and BYU went independent after the BCS was set up.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby preston » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:54 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Both Army and BYU went independent after the BCS was set up.

If Army goes undefeated next year, I promise that they would NOT play a BCS game if there are 4-5 other major conference undefeated teams and a some 11-1 teams. This is a nd rule. But, I still don't sure what your point is. Both Army and BYU have flirted in and out of conferences for the last 20 years. Even back to the days when Navy, Miami and FSU and South Carolina were independent there was still the nd factor which lurked: the ability to be treated differently BECAUSE they were nd. The minimum win rule to be eligible had to be tweaked because of nd; because they knew that TV and bowl directors would take a losing record nd over more deserving schools with better records.

One more thing: I hate nd so much that I actually root for the day when Boston College is relevant (again?) so my Irish catholic friends don't think it's religious bigotry why I hate those soulless bastards. I hate Jack Welch BECAUSE he was CEO of GE when NBC crafted the ND network. For a while I stopped watching NBC (I made exceptions for the Olympics...Don't judge me dammit :lol: ). I rooted for Ty WIllingham at Stanford and imediately AGAINST him at nd. I think the Gerry Faust years were the best ever. I don't watch nd games UNLESS I'm absolutely sure they're going to lose; I haven't watched a game this year and we all know all their games are televised - so there goes your Stanford, USC, Oklahoma theories. I'm neither irrational nor delusional, I'm a nd hater and it all makes sense to us. Get on board! :wink:
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:38 am

preston wrote:The squirm begins ...

you've moved from "bcs eligible" to "bowl eligibility"? Well, at least you realize that I was right about nd and the BCS.

I admit no such thing. I'm just trying to pin you down amidst your dissembling and obfuscation. Here's is your original quote:
preston wrote:ND has special circumstances that allow it to be bowl-eligible and BCS-eligible doing less than every other school

You still haven't explained to me how Notre Dame gets bowl-eligible doing less than every other school. Furthermore, I would argue that Notre Dame has to do more than any other school to get bowl-eligible, since unlike those other schools, including those in the almighty SEC, they don't play FCS schools. Please explain this to me first or at least admit your errror, and then I'll explain to you the fallacy of your BCS-eligibility argument. :wink:

preston wrote:I'm the only college football fan? The same has been said about Boise State, BYU and a host of others. If you win all your games then you should be in the conversation. I would rather watch Louisville than nd play any of the other teams, or any other team.

If you've followed my college football posts over the last couple of years, you know I'm anything but a snob and I have the utmost respect for school like Boise State, TCU and Utah. IMO Louisville hasn't done a thing to be considered in the same class with those schools. There's a good chance Boise State will go to the Orange Bowl this year and I'll be pulling for them.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby preston » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:46 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
preston wrote:The squirm begins ...

you've moved from "bcs eligible" to "bowl eligibility"? Well, at least you realize that I was right about nd and the BCS.

I admit no such thing. I'm just trying to pin you down amidst your dissembling and obfuscation.
Here's is your original quote:
preston wrote:ND has special circumstances that allow it to be bowl-eligible and BCS-eligible doing less than every other school

You still haven't explained to me how Notre Dame gets bowl-eligible doing less than every other school. Furthermore, I would argue that Notre Dame has to do more than any other school to get bowl-eligible, since unlike those other schools, including those in the almighty SEC, they don't play FCS schools. Please explain this to me first or at least admit your errror, and then I'll explain to you the fallacy of your BCS-eligibility argument. :wink:

Nope, not playing that game. You explain your "argument", or not; it makes no difference to me. That said, you can add a [had] after "has" in the above that you quoted. As I've said previously, hating nd is not based upon now, it's based upon my college football watching history. feel free to declare yourself a winner... of what, I don't know.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:19 pm

preston wrote:If Army goes undefeated next year, I promise that they would NOT play a BCS game if there are 4-5 other major conference undefeated teams and a some 11-1 teams. This is a nd rule. But, I still don't sure what your point is. Both Army and BYU have flirted in and out of conferences for the last 20 years. Even back to the days when Navy, Miami and FSU and South Carolina were independent there was still the nd factor which lurked: the ability to be treated differently BECAUSE they were nd. The minimum win rule to be eligible had to be tweaked because of nd; because they knew that TV and bowl directors would take a losing record nd over more deserving schools with better records.

You're proving my point. Before the BCS, Notre Dame went to the Sugar Bowl with a 6-4-1 record. Now they must have the same number of wins and the same minumim BCS ranking to become BCS-eligible as everybody else does. And they also have be ranked #8 to get an automatic BCS bid while Boise State only needs a #12 ranking regardless of what everybody else does and a #16 ranking depending on whatever everybody else does. And did you know that Boise State started out the year with a higher preseason ranking than Notre Dame? Things aren't what they were 20 years ago in the world of college football.

preston wrote:I hate Jack Welch BECAUSE he was CEO of GE when NBC crafted the ND network. For a while I stopped watching NBC (I made exceptions for the Olympics...Don't judge me dammit).

Not to get political, but Jack Welch has also been accused of stockpiling MSNBC with good Catholics like Chris Matthews, Rachel Matthews, Lawrence O'Donnell, Joan Walsh, Mike Barnicle, etc. :wink:

preston wrote:I rooted for Ty WIllingham at Stanford and imediately AGAINST him at nd. I think the Gerry Faust years were the best ever.

Blashphemy! :twisted:

preston wrote:I'm neither irrational nor delusional, I'm a nd hater and it all makes sense to us. Get on board!

As a south Louisiana Catholic who is the product of the parochial school system, it's against my religion. By the way, did you know that the Vatican gave the Archbishop of New Orleans special permission to fly the Saints flag over St. Louis Cathedral for Super Bowl 44?
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:20 am

I think it's ironic that by winning today, LSU can end the SEC's reign of BCS dominance.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby j-a-m » Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:28 am

jazzcyclist wrote:I think it's ironic that by winning today, LSU can end the SEC's reign of BCS dominance.

And then USC can add to the irony by beating Oregon and Notre Dame, thereby sending LSU to the championship game and saving the SEC.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:18 am

Did anyone else see College Gameday? FYI, the guest picker was a track athlete who guru loves to hate. :wink:
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:49 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Did anyone else see College Gameday? FYI, the guest picker was a track athlete who guru loves to hate. :wink:


Track athlete?

I didn't catch her name but they said she was a bobsledder.

:?: :?:
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby j-a-m » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:49 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Did anyone else see College Gameday? FYI, the guest picker was a track athlete who guru loves to hate. :wink:

Great appearance actually, knew what she was talking about (wouldn't say the same about Ryan Lochte, the guest picker a couple weeks ago), and called out Denard Robinson along the way ...
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:11 pm

Well, ND is not having an easy time of it against lightly regarded Pitt (4-4). The score is 17-6 and Pitt just got a longish punt return and long run down to the 13 then 11 to the 2 with 1:30 left in the third. Then a field goal, 20-6, 16 minutes left.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby j-a-m » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:52 pm

26mi235 wrote:Well, ND is not having an easy time of it against lightly regarded Pitt (4-4). The score is 17-6 and Pitt just got a longish punt return and long run down to the 13 then 11 to the 2 with 1:30 left in the third. Then a field goal, 20-6, 16 minutes left.

ND got lucky there and just avoided the upset; should make it more difficult for them, though, to get ranked ahead of other undefeated teams in the polls.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:04 pm

j-a-m wrote:
26mi235 wrote:Well, ND is not having an easy time of it against lightly regarded Pitt (4-4). The score is 17-6 and Pitt just got a longish punt return and long run down to the 13 then 11 to the 2 with 1:30 left in the third. Then a field goal, 20-6, 16 minutes left.

ND got lucky there and just avoided the upset; should make it more difficult for them, though, to get ranked ahead of other undefeated teams in the polls.

ND needed the help of all their leprachauns to get past Pitt today. This game basically eliminated any chance Notre Dame had of finishing ahead Alabama, Oregon or Kansas State as long as they win out.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:35 pm

College football is great on Saturday nights like this. Alabama, Oregon and Kansas State are all in dog fights tonight.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:22 pm

LSU dominated Alabama for 58 minutes and then went to that old reliable "prevent defense" and the rest is history. Even Saban admitted after the right after game that Alabama had been outplayed. Shame on you John Chavis. Shame, shame, shame!
:(
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby Pego » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:34 am

Dutra5 wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Did anyone else see College Gameday? FYI, the guest picker was a track athlete who guru loves to hate. :wink:


Track athlete?

I didn't catch her name but they said she was a bobsledder.

:?: :?:


Mrs Pego, who has little T&F interest quipped as we turned on ESPN, "she is everywhere."
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby preston » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:32 am

...anyone really want to compare SEC football to the facsimile thereofs played elsewhere? Yes, it was a conference game but LSU showed that but for that loss they could play for a national championship. Again, I don't see another defense outside of the SEC that impresses me (Sacriligious U is decent...but PITT!?).

If nd loses to USC (50/50, imo) they shouldn't play one of the top 4 games.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:52 am

preston wrote:If nd loses to USC (50/50, imo) they shouldn't play one of the top 4 games.

An 11-1 Notre Dame team, which is the only FBS team in the nation that has neither any FCS team nor non-AQ teams on its schedule, will probably be an automatic qualifier.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby preston » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:20 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
preston wrote:If nd loses to USC (50/50, imo) they shouldn't play one of the top 4 games.

An 11-1 Notre Dame team, which is the only FBS team in the nation that has neither any FCS team nor non-AQ teams on its schedule, will probably be an automatic qualifier.

True. But, with Alabama #1 in the BCS and Georgia, Florida, LSU and South Carolina holding down spots #5, 6, 7 and 8 it cheapens, to me, nd's claim to be the 4th best team. (and as a nd hater...top 10?) Kevin Sumlin was the right coach for A&M and I think the net positive of the aggies in the SEC is that QB play will get a lot better; because eventually A&M defense will mirror other SEC schools and their offense will be the difference, carrying them to the top of the SEC west.

I still hate nd, stop trying to convince me! :mrgreen: :wink:
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby Pego » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:35 pm

preston wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
preston wrote:If nd loses to USC (50/50, imo) they shouldn't play one of the top 4 games.

An 11-1 Notre Dame team, which is the only FBS team in the nation that has neither any FCS team nor non-AQ teams on its schedule, will probably be an automatic qualifier.

True. But, with Alabama #1 in the BCS and Georgia, Florida, LSU and South Carolina holding down spots #5, 6, 7 and 8 it cheapens, to me, nd's claim to be the 4th best team. (and as a nd hater...top 10?) Kevin Sumlin was the right coach for A&M and I think the net positive of the aggies in the SEC is that QB play will get a lot better; because eventually A&M defense will mirror other SEC schools and their offense will be the difference, carrying them to the top of the SEC west.

I still hate nd, stop trying to convince me! :mrgreen: :wink:


I'd love to see them paired with one of those SEC teams you mention above (or Florida St for that matter), but I suspect that the ND lovers will pair them with Louisville.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby preston » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:59 pm

Doomsday scenario: Alabama loses to Georgia! nd loses to USC

GA would have lost to S. Carolina
S. Carolina would have lost to Florida and LSU (assuming they also beat Clemson)
LSU would have lost to Florida and Alabama
and Florida would have lost to GA

How would a one-loss nd be able to claim any prominence over any of the SEC teams, even the 2 loss ones? In my mind nd would fall below Louisville and to no better than 9th.

Current Polls:
1 Alabama 9-0
2 Kansas State 9-0
3 Oregon 9-0
4 Notre Dame 9-0
5 Georgia 8-1
6 Florida 8-1
7 LSU 7-2
8 South Carolina 7-2
9 Louisville 9-0
10 Florida State 8-1

*Louisiana Tech's loss to A&M is gonna hurt; they could have argued that they deserve to be the 10th team...knocking nd out of the top 10. I would put a one loss LaTech over a one loss nd. USC ain't who they used to be. All that said, I will be rooting against all odds for BC and Wake Forest as well.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:45 pm

preston wrote:Kevin Sumlin was the right coach for A&M and I think the net positive of the aggies in the SEC is that QB play will get a lot better; because eventually A&M defense will mirror other SEC schools and their offense will be the difference, carrying them to the top of the SEC west.

So far Sumlin's offense has come up short against the better SEC defenses, namely LSU and Florida.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:54 pm

preston wrote:In my mind nd would fall below Louisville and to no better than 9th.

:?
You just destroyed your college football credibility with this comment. Here are the facts:

    1) No wins over ranked opponents.
    2) 4-point win over winless Southern Miss.
    3) 2-point win over South Florida
    4) 7-point win over Florida International
Come on preston. You must be blinded by hatred to make absurd comments like this. You can do better than that.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby preston » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:14 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Come on preston. You must be blinded by hatred to make absurd comments like this. You can do better than that.

jazz, when it comes to nd...I just can't do it. I'm serious, I would rather see Louisville play than nd. You're a good catholic; pray for me. :wink:
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby gh » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:01 pm

at this point, please not let's have another 25-part preston/jazz back and forth. If you guys wanna continue to piss on each other, take it offline plz.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby preston » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:41 am

gh wrote:at this point, please not let's have another 25-part preston/jazz back and forth. If you guys wanna continue to piss on each other, take it offline plz.

:?: :!:
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:42 am

gh wrote:at this point, please not let's have another 25-part preston/jazz back and forth. If you guys wanna continue to piss on each other, take it offline plz.
I can only speak for myself, but I thought preston and I were just having fun. I certainly didn't take any of his posts personally, but you're the boss and I respect your decision.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby preston » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:08 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
gh wrote:at this point, please not let's have another 25-part preston/jazz back and forth. If you guys wanna continue to piss on each other, take it offline plz.
I can only speak for myself, but I thought preston and I were just having fun. I certainly didn't take any of his posts personally, but you're the boss and I respect your decision.

you had it right, jazz. I have no idea where gh got it from but, whatever ...
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jhc68 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:29 pm

So much for the idea that Bama could beat some NFL teams.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:53 pm

During the middle of the week, Saban warned his team that they needed to hurry up and get over the LSU win and based on his comments in his post-game interview, he didn't seem surprised at the outcome today. Last week, Notre Dame had similar problems coming back down to earth after their win over Oklahoma and had to be saved at the last minute by the "luck of the Irish", but then Texas A&M is a lot better than Pitt also. In team sports, it's only in the game which immediately follows big emotional wins do coaches find out if their team can handle success. IMO, both Notre Dame and Alabama failed this test and if I were a voter, I might penalize the Irish more for their 3OT win over Pitt than I would penalize the Tide for their loss to Texas A&M.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby Pego » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:04 am

Wouldn't a potential match-up of Alabama-ND delight a lot of folks here? I can think of a few, eh Preston :wink: ?
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby Marlow » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:17 am

Pego wrote:Wouldn't a potential match-up of Alabama-ND delight a lot of folks here?

I wouldn't know whom to root more against. :x
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby Pego » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:44 am

Marlow wrote:
Pego wrote:Wouldn't a potential match-up of Alabama-ND delight a lot of folks here?

I wouldn't know whom to root more against. :x


It is simple for me, because I would pick Alabama in our prediction pool :D .
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby Marlow » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:09 am

Pego wrote:
Marlow wrote:
Pego wrote:Wouldn't a potential match-up of Alabama-ND delight a lot of folks here?

I wouldn't know whom to root more against. :x

It is simple for me, because I would pick Alabama in our prediction pool :D .

Nice! I used to hate lots of teams . . . USC, Cal, UCLA . . . but I've narrowed it down to just Bama and ND now. When Saban came on board, that was the last straw, and as for ND, it's just great fun to hate a school that believes it has a deity on its side.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby DrJay » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:27 am

I'm kind of practical, and don't care too passionately about college football, so I understand a top 20 better when it contains the Alabamas, Notre Dames, USCs, Ohio Sts and Michigans, and not the Louisiana Techs, Boise Sts and Kansas Sts. Get rid of the formers and throw in the latters and I just get confused. Thus, I'm glad to see ND back in the fray.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby Daisy » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:32 am

Marlow wrote:it's just great fun to hate a school that believes it has a deity on its side.

They don't?
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby Bruce Kritzler » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:54 am

Did we witness a paradigm shift shift in college football last night?
Where no-huddle, spread-the-field, quick teams can compete with traditional power football. Also have noticed that the smaller schools seem to be more competitive with the bigs. Sunbelt and WAC teams are upsetting Big 12, SEC teams.
These new offenses (50-60 passes/game) give the have-nots a chance.
Will the football powers legislate to limit their success?
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby Marlow » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:11 am

Bruce Kritzler wrote:Will the football powers legislate to limit their success?

More offense and greater parity makes for better television, which we know is the only power that matters.
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Re: 2012 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:37 am

The biggest mistake that's been made by the BCS honchos in the history of the BCS, was the decision to completely remove the margin-of-victory (MOV) component from all of the computer rankings after one-loss Nebraska, which didn't win its conference, but had a lot of blowout wins, got into the BCS championship game over one-loss, PAC-10 champion Oregon, which won five of its games by a touchdown or less. After it was revealed that the MOV component caused the Ducks a chance to play for the Crystal Football, Oregon coach Mike Belotti led the lobbying effort to have MOV removed from the formula, which was done the following year. Ironically, it's the lack of a MOV component that's hurting Oregon and helping Notre Dame this year, and I think it would be poetic justice if somehow this caused the Ducks a chance to play for the Crystal Football. What's also ironic is that the SEC, which has been the strongest conference during the BCS era, benefits the most from not having MOV as part of the BCS formula.
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