Fountain To Try Bobsled


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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby cladthin » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:40 am

It depends upon what one's view of speed is. A world class shotputter or top olympic weightlifter can out accelerate pretty much any athlete (including sprinters) for short distances out to 20m-25m or possibly a bit further. Of course this varies based upon which individuals are being tested or compared. These athletes are the best at acceleration.

Certainly, the sprinter will possess superior maximum velocity to the shot putter. Some shot putters accelerate very well though their strength advantage starts to fall off as they go out to longer sprint distances such as 30m, 35m and so on as their bodyweight now turns into a disadvantage. In a short acceleration, the bodyweight contributes a large degree to their higher strength levels and thus their ability to run very short sprints as fast or faster than any athletes in the world.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:29 am

cladthin wrote:It depends upon what one's view of speed is. A world class shotputter or top olympic weightlifter can out accelerate pretty much any athlete (including sprinters) for short distances out to 20m-25m or possibly a bit further. Of course this varies based upon which individuals are being tested or compared. These athletes are the best at acceleration.

Certainly, the sprinter will possess superior maximum velocity to the shot putter. Some shot putters accelerate very well though their strength advantage starts to fall off as they go out to longer sprint distances such as 30m, 35m and so on as their bodyweight now turns into a disadvantage. In a short acceleration, the bodyweight contributes a large degree to their higher strength levels and thus their ability to run very short sprints as fast or faster than any athletes in the world.

I would also think that shot putters, while not being able to compete in the 100 at the elite level, would have a lot better top end if they did all the running that sprinters do, in particular the over-distance training.

Based on the info that 18.99 provided above, the theoretical average maximum weight for bobsledders and their equipment are:

    2-man: 238 pounds
    2-woman: 233 pounds
    4-man: 231.5 pounds
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby j-a-m » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:10 am

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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby marknhj » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:41 am

A handful of my athlete friends made GB Olympic bobsled teams. They were decathletes who were not quite world class in T&F, but still fast and big.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby GDAWG » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:24 pm

Nice to see more African Americans try to make the Winter Olympics squad. Shani Davis should not be the only one.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:34 pm

Funny how Aja Evans kicks everyone's ass, and breaks the Lake Placid track push record, but Jones is the one who gets the headlines.

Seems we've been down this road before...
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby lonewolf » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:42 pm

The girl can't help it.... not should she.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:48 pm

guru wrote:Funny how Aja Evans kicks everyone's ass, and breaks the Lake Placid track push record, but Jones is the one who gets the headlines.

Seems we've been down this road before...

She ran her way onto the Olympic team this year, she wasn't selected for it. How goes the bobsled selection process? Is it done by guys in smoked-filled rooms?
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:48 pm

lonewolf wrote:The girl can't help it.... not should she.



I'm not blaming her, but the media continues to befuddle me on this fascination with her.



By the way, here's some info on Evans, since you're not likely to get it anywhere else.

http://www.fightingillini.com/sports/w- ... aja00.html


And her twitter page

https://twitter.com/AjaLEvans


Evans in action

http://instagram.com/p/RNwIuymXav/
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:53 pm

jazzcyclist wrote: How goes the bobsled selection process? Is it done by guys in smoked-filled rooms?



Six brakemen made the team. Jones was 6th, 4th among the track athletes. She probably deserved to make the cut, I just don't get the media fascination with making her a headline story. If anything Evans, a shotputter, destroying everyone is the big story(if not totally unexpected, at least by me)
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:59 pm

guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote: How goes the bobsled selection process? Is it done by guys in smoked-filled rooms?



Six brakemen made the team. Jones was 6th, 4th among the track athletes. She probably deserved to make the cut, I just don't get the media fascination with making her a headline story. If anything Evans, a shotputter, destroying everyone is the big story(if not totally unexpected, at least by me)

So it was based strictly on time? Is your beef mainly with Lolo sucking all the oxygen out of the media room so to speak?
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby lonewolf » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:05 pm

guru wrote:
lonewolf wrote:The girl can't help it.... not should she.



I'm not blaming her, but the media continues to befuddle me on this fascination with her./


People are (mostly) either pro or con Lolo... if you are one of the "undecided" still befuddled by her popularity/notoriety, that befuddles me.. :)
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:09 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:So it was based strictly on time?


It doesnt look like it. Jones was 7th at the push championships, beaten soundly by Fountain.

Order Name Heat I Heat II Optional Heat III TOTAL

1 Aja Evans 4.84 4.81 9.65
2 Katie Eberling 4.88 4.90 9.78
3 Cherrelle Garrett 5.02 4.97 9.99
4 Hyleas Fountain 5.00 5.01 10.01
5 Tianna Madison 5.03 5.01 10.04
6 Emily Azevedo 5.01 5.03 10.04
7 LoLo Jones 5.04 5.07 10.11





And doesn't look like she even got a ride in the team championships last weekend.

1. Jamie Greubel and Aja Evans 1:55.94 (57.56, 58.38);
2. Jazmine Fenlator and Cherrelle Garrett 1:55.99 (57.67, 58.32);
3. Katelyn Kelly and Tracey Stewart 1:59.49 (59.68, 59.81);
4. Megan Hill and Maureen Ajoka 1:59.50 (59.26, 1:00.24)
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby preston » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:42 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:Funny how Aja Evans kicks everyone's ass, and breaks the Lake Placid track push record, but Jones is the one who gets the headlines.

Seems we've been down this road before...

She ran her way onto the Olympic team this year, she wasn't selected for it. How goes the bobsled selection process? Is it done by guys in smoked-filled rooms?

If Bianca Knight can be SELECTED to run on the USA 4x1 then I have no problem with Lolo being able to get a CHANCE to push at the Olympics in 2 years. Go Lolo!
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:45 pm

preston wrote:If Bianca Knight can be SELECTED to run on the USA 4x1 then I have no problem with Lolo being able to get a CHANCE to push at the Olympics in 2 years.



Valid point. But if I'm Hyleas Fountain, I'm pretty pissed right now...
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:51 pm

guru wrote:
preston wrote:If Bianca Knight can be SELECTED to run on the USA 4x1 then I have no problem with Lolo being able to get a CHANCE to push at the Olympics in 2 years.



Valid point. But if I'm Hyleas Fountain, I'm pretty pissed right now...

I'm surprised that she made it. Like you, I assumed that they would be looking for pushers heavier than Lolo.I wonder how someone like Ginnie Powell would have done? And though she's not American, I'll bet Blessing Okagbare would have tested well. It doesn't say much for the depth of bobsledding that track athletes can make the team on a whim.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:52 pm

guru wrote:
preston wrote:If Bianca Knight can be SELECTED to run on the USA 4x1 then I have no problem with Lolo being able to get a CHANCE to push at the Olympics in 2 years.



Valid point. But if I'm Hyleas Fountain, I'm pretty pissed right now...


There is a WHOLE lot more to bobsledding than the single-person push championships. Pushing with a driver and going down a mile of ice is very different. Drivers also have input. There are many other variables coaches consider. Rookies improve at different rates. My sources tell me Lolo was very professional and highly motivated throughout this process. She was there to make this team.

Guru, stop looking for reasons not to like Lolo. She deserved her spot.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:54 pm

decafan wrote:
There is a WHOLE lot more to bobsledding than the single-person push championships. Pushing with a driver and going down a mile of ice is very different. Drivers also have input. There are many other variables coaches consider. Rookies improve at different rates. My sources tell me Lolo was very professional and highly motivated throughout this process. She was there to make this team.

Guru, stop looking for reasons not to like Lolo. She deserved her spot.



You're saying Fountain sucked and deserved to passed over for Jones. Fair enough.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:56 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:I'm surprised that she made it. Like you, I assumed that they would be looking for pushers heavier than Lolo.I wonder how someone like Ginnie Powell would have done? And though she's not American, I'll bet Blessing Okagbare would have tested well. It doesn't say much for the depth of bobsledding that track athletes can make the team on a whim.



I think that's a fair and accurate assessment.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:57 pm

Does anyone know of a forum where winter sports fanatics discuss bobsledding? I'd like to hear what knowledgeable people have to say.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:17 pm

guru wrote:


You're saying Fountain sucked and deserved to passed over for Jones. Fair enough.


Are you a child? Fountain was terrific as well. Just not quite as good as Lolo.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:23 pm

decafan wrote:
guru wrote:


You're saying Fountain sucked and deserved to passed over for Jones. Fair enough.


Are you a child? Fountain was terrific as well. Just not quite as good as Lolo.



Well I'll tell you what. You don't infer intent in my comments here, and I won't do it to yours. How's that sound?

And for the record - I said on this very forum at 7:43 PM I thought Jones probably deserved the spot(though Fountain has every reason to feel slighted).
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:45 pm

guru wrote:
decafan wrote:
guru wrote:


You're saying Fountain sucked and deserved to passed over for Jones. Fair enough.


Are you a child? Fountain was terrific as well. Just not quite as good as Lolo.



Well I'll tell you what. You don't infer intent in my comments here, and I won't do it to yours. How's that sound?

And for the record - I said on this very forum at 7:43 PM I thought Jones probably deserved the spot(though Fountain has every reason to feel slighted).


That sounds good. Just so I am clear: You are NOT a Lolo hater. You are pro-Lolo. You agree that you can't legislate media interest no matter how badly you wish you could. You agree that Lolo deserved to be named to the national team. If you were Ms. Fountain you would feel slighted (even though nobody involved in the process- including the athletes, were surprised by this decision). Got it.

I appreciate you clearing that up and I apologize for inferring you hate Lolo just because the media- which she has no control over, seems to like writing about her.

Friends???
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:31 am

Make no mistake about it - the only track athlete who's going to wind up in a sled at a major championship is Evans, at least from this group. But if Jones brings more publicity to the sport(what is it Oscar Wilde said?), then she's fulfilled her role.

But it sure would be nice if the media(Bonnie Ford I'm looking at you) could at least mention the name of the woman who absolutely destroyed the field, and the track record.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby Pego » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:41 am

guru wrote:I said on this very forum at 7:43 PM I thought Jones probably deserved the spot


Why? Just wondering.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:34 pm

Pego wrote:
guru wrote:I said on this very forum at 7:43 PM I thought Jones probably deserved the spot


Why? Just wondering.



Strictly by the numbers, of course she didn't deserve it. But when I made the comment my feeling was USA Bobsled must have seen something in her performance that caused them to take Jones over Fountain for that last brakeman slot.

The cynic in me would say it was because Jones brings more pub than Fountain, but surely that had nothing to do with it...
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:37 pm

guru wrote:
Pego wrote:
guru wrote:I said on this very forum at 7:43 PM I thought Jones probably deserved the spot


Why? Just wondering.



Strictly by the numbers, of course she didn't deserve it. But when I made the comment my feeling was USA Bobsled must have seen something in her performance that caused them to take Jones over Fountain for that last brakeman slot.

The cynic in me would say it was because Jones brings more pub than Fountain, but surely that had nothing to do with it...

It's my understanding that only three of the six pushers will get to compete in the Olympics. If that's the case, perhaps they wanted to bring publicity to the sport. The NFAA was ecstatic when Geena Davis made it to the semifinals of the Olympic Archery Trials for just this reason, and there no doubt that NBC would have made her one of the faces of the Olympics if she had somehow made the team.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympi ... rchery_ap/
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby James Fields » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:41 pm

Update: Headline now says Lolo on USA Olympic Bobsled Team:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1384355-lolo-jones-picked-for-us-olympic-bobsled-team
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:32 pm

James Fields wrote:Update: Headline now says Lolo on USA Olympic Bobsled Team



No, she's not on the Olympic team. She's on the US Bobsled roster, with an opportunity to try to make the 2014 team. But as we have discussed here since the announcement was made a few days ago, she's not very likely to make the final two or three brakemen who actually go to Sochi.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:38 pm

James Fields wrote:Update: Headline now says Lolo on USA Olympic Bobsled Team:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1384355-lolo-jones-picked-for-us-olympic-bobsled-team


I have seen the same thing in a few publications. Totally incorrect. The 2014 Sochi Winter Olympic Bobsled Team will most likely be named in January of 2014. Possibly December of 2013.

Guru is full of it. She has a real chance to make that team. As does Tianna. Aja is a lock unless she bails out or gets hurt. Three sleds, three drivers, three breakmen.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:59 pm

decafan wrote:
Guru is full of it. She has a real chance to make that team. As does Tianna. Aja is a lock unless she bails out or gets hurt. Three sleds, three drivers, three breakmen.



Vets Azevedo and Eberling are almost guaranteed slots for 2014, which leaves one seat open(assuming the US qualifies three sleds).


BTW, Good to see at least one journalist is writing about Evans -

http://tinyurl.com/9ydgtkl
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:46 pm

guru wrote:
decafan wrote:
Guru is full of it. She has a real chance to make that team. As does Tianna. Aja is a lock unless she bails out or gets hurt. Three sleds, three drivers, three breakmen.



Vets Azevedo and Eberling are almost guaranteed slots for 2014, which leaves one seat open(assuming the US qualifies three sleds).


BTW, Good to see at least one journalist is writing about Evans -

http://tinyurl.com/9ydgtkl


You are half right. One vet is a lock for a slot, one is definitely not. Two seats are up for grabs. If Hyleas sticks around and improves, there will be a dog fight for those two seats between her, Lolo and Tianna.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:24 pm

decafan wrote:
guru wrote:
decafan wrote:
Guru is full of it. She has a real chance to make that team. As does Tianna. Aja is a lock unless she bails out or gets hurt. Three sleds, three drivers, three breakmen.



Vets Azevedo and Eberling are almost guaranteed slots for 2014, which leaves one seat open(assuming the US qualifies three sleds).


BTW, Good to see at least one journalist is writing about Evans -

http://tinyurl.com/9ydgtkl


You are half right. One vet is a lock for a slot, one is definitely not. Two seats are up for grabs. If Hyleas sticks around and improves, there will be a dog fight for those two seats between her, Lolo and Tianna.



Check your math. Even going by your statement only one of Azevedo/Eberling is a lock, that only leaves one seat, because Evans is definitely taking one. And I'm not sure how you have Fountain is in the the mix, because she's not on the roster and not in the world cup rotation.

When it all shakes out in 2014, the three brakemen will be Evans, Eberling, and Azevedo, with Garrett the wildcard. It's just a matter of who's in what sled.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:00 am

guru wrote:
decafan wrote:
guru wrote:
decafan wrote:
Guru is full of it. She has a real chance to make that team. As does Tianna. Aja is a lock unless she bails out or gets hurt. Three sleds, three drivers, three breakmen.



Vets Azevedo and Eberling are almost guaranteed slots for 2014, which leaves one seat open(assuming the US qualifies three sleds).


BTW, Good to see at least one journalist is writing about Evans -

http://tinyurl.com/9ydgtkl


You are half right. One vet is a lock for a slot, one is definitely not. Two seats are up for grabs. If Hyleas sticks around and improves, there will be a dog fight for those two seats between her, Lolo and Tianna.



Check your math. Even going by your statement only one of Azevedo/Eberling is a lock, that only leaves one seat, because Evans is definitely taking one. And I'm not sure how you have Fountain is in the the mix, because she's not on the roster and not in the world cup rotation.

When it all shakes out in 2014, the three brakemen will be Evans, Eberling, and Azevedo, with Garrett the wildcard. It's just a matter of who's in what sled.


Yes, my math was wrong. Good catch. Aja is a lock and one vet. Third spot is up for grabs. Fountain is still in the mix if she decides to stick around and train. Her athleticism is not in question, so she still has a lot of potential if she commits to making the 2014 team- which won't be selected until either December of '13 or Jan of '14. She still has time, even though she didn't get selected to the '12-'13 World Cup team. Every Olympic year there is a shuffling of the deck. Watch and learn, Grasshopper.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:16 am

decafan wrote: (Fountain) still has time, even though she didn't get selected to the '12-'13 World Cup team. Every Olympic year there is a shuffling of the deck.


Well considering Fountain won't be getting any competition time even if she does continue training(and why would she, considering she was just snubbed), it's pretty hard to see her beating out any of the athletes that are ALREADY ahead of her, much less after they have a full season of world class racing.


Watch and learn, Grasshopper


Hmm, we'll see. I feel pretty good about my picks(barring injury)
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:54 am

guru wrote:
decafan wrote: (Fountain) still has time, even though she didn't get selected to the '12-'13 World Cup team. Every Olympic year there is a shuffling of the deck.


Well considering Fountain won't be getting any competition time even if she does continue training(and why would she, considering she was just snubbed), it's pretty hard to see her beating out any of the athletes that are ALREADY ahead of her, much less after they have a full season of world class racing.


Hmm... Interesting logic, considering four of the six push athletes that were named to this year's team are rookies. What happened to the veterans ranked ahead of them who were left home? Look, what Fountain (and ANY rookie breakman) needs more than anything else is repetitions. (You keep saying she was snubbed, but not one of the drivers or coaches selected her over the other girls.) If she is serious about Sochi, she can actually stay back in Lake Placid, Park City or even Calgary and get twice the repetitions as the other rookies who made the World Cup team. The WC athletes get maybe two days of training on each track they compete on, at typically two runs per day plus the two runs in competition. That comes to approx. six trips per week while on tour (an inflated number since they brought six breakmen for only three sled and will want to test each athlete in training). You can see how an athlete who stayed back and just trained hard and took lots of training runs could close the gap on athletes ranked ahead of them. The experience breakmen get on tour isn't as important as you might think. Which is why on nearly every Winter Olympic team you have rookies.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby marknhj » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:50 am

Is there another sport where you can go from having zero experience to getting a berth on an Olympic squad in three weeks?
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:20 am

Helps to have a name to attract attention.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:47 am

marknhj wrote:Is there another sport where you can go from having zero experience to getting a berth on an Olympic squad in three weeks?


Nobody has been named to the Olympic Bobsled team yet. Nobody can make the Olympic Bobsled team in that fashion either.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby aquille » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:09 am

Fountain and Megan Hill finished third in an Americas Cup race in Park City on Wednesday:
http://bit.ly/TRkF6N
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