so what's the men's POY now?


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so what's the men's POY now?

Postby gh » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:59 am

(Performance Of The Year)

Because of the setting, and because he had to beat a rabbited record, I still give a narrow edge to Rudisha over Merritt.

If somebody had told you at the beginning of the eyar that a 9039-point decathlon would be no better than third on the list.....
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Marlow » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:01 am

gh wrote:(Performance Of The Year)
Because of the setting, and because he had to beat a rabbited record, I still give a narrow edge to Rudisha over Merritt.
If somebody had told you at the beginning of the eyar that a 9039-point decathlon would be no better than third on the list.....

Ah, you read my post on the other thread . . . :wink:
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby jeremyp » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:03 am

I have a simple solution: A triple tie!
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Tuariki » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:07 am

jeremyp wrote:I have a simple solution: A triple tie!

That would certainly be a fair and equitable solution. However, one has to put their gonads on the line and choose a winner. And so for me it is:
#1 Merritt
#2 Rudisha
#3 Eaton
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Flumpy » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:09 am

Rudisha is still POY easily.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby jamal00005 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:11 am

For me the POY has to go to rudisha at the Olympics after running rounds and then running that time in the final .
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby EPelle » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:16 am

Rudisha, because of the setting (value of the race), and because of what others did in the race along with him. He enabled six athletes to make their performances of the year as the front-runner. At the Olympic Games. In a race of grave importance. The 12,80, whilst brilliant and the fastest ever run, doesn't hold the same worth as performance of the year as an invitational race in my opinion.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby jamal00005 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:17 am

EPelle wrote:Rudisha, because of the setting (value of the race), and because of what others did in the race along with him. He enabled six athletes to make their performances of the year as the front-runner. At the Olympic Games. In a race of grave importance. The 12,80, whilst brilliant and the fastest ever run, doesn't hold the same worth as performance of the year as an invitational race in my opinion.


I completely agree with this
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby gh » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:18 pm

I'm thinking that only people who weren't there in person for either race should be allowed to vote. Or maybe it's OK if you were at both.

I saw Rudisha in person, but not Merritt, and I know, deep down inside, that that has to be coloring my thinking somewhat.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:23 pm

gh wrote:I'm thinking that only people who weren't there in person for either race should be allowed to vote.


I am in that group and I go for DR!
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby gm » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:27 pm

Merritt's WR was a much bigger improvement percentage-wise. He ran a damn near perfect race.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:30 pm

gm wrote:Merritt's WR was a much bigger improvement percentage-wise.


People can vote for whatever, but god's sake don't turn it into a math contest.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby j-a-m » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:40 pm

gm wrote:Merritt's WR was a much bigger improvement percentage-wise. He ran a damn near perfect race.

Given what a technical event the high hurdles are, I agree that Merritt's performance is even greater than Rudisha's.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby jeremyp » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:58 pm

Tuariki wrote:
jeremyp wrote:I have a simple solution: A triple tie!

That would certainly be a fair and equitable solution. However, one has to put their gonads on the line and choose a winner. And so for me it is:
#1 Merritt
#2 Rudisha
#3 Eaton

O.K., O.K.
#1 Merritt
#1 Eaton
#1 Rudisha.
There!
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby jeremyp » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:02 pm

Setting a WR in the Olympics has to be a huge plus. So does destroying the Olympic field.
So Rudisha for me for #1.
We all sense/know Eaton has much more in his tank, while I seriously doubt Merritt can go more than 1/2/1ooths faster. Rudisha may or may not get sub 1.40.00, 800 runners fade all too quickly after 4/5 years. So let's wait for Eaton to go over 9150! :D
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby mal » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:06 pm

Merritt has had a career year.

Dominant in racing and perfomance.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Pego » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:11 pm

Rudisha's record may be broken by next year, Merritt's will not for a long time. It might be up there with Soto's. My vote is clearly Merritt for POY.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby j-a-m » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:13 pm

gh wrote:I'm thinking that only people who weren't there in person for either race should be allowed to vote. Or maybe it's OK if you were at both.

I was only there in person for Eaton, so I may be neutral with respect to the other two ...
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby bekayne » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:51 pm

Pego wrote:Rudisha's record may be broken by next year


By someone not named Rudisha?
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby dbirds » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:54 pm

Rudisha and Merritt took their event to a new barrier/level. Eaton did so also but some stud Sebrle beat him there; however, you can't discount the horrible conditions, which certainly cost Eaton 100 points or more.

Rudisha does deserve credit for doing it at the Olympics after rounds. Although, I am still leaning Eaton for AOY, I am going Rudisha for POY with Merritt a slight 2nd,
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Marlow » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:25 pm

Pego wrote:Rudisha's record may be broken by next year, Merritt's will not for a long time. It might be up there with Soto's. My vote is clearly Merritt for POY.

I also feel like 12.80 is going to be very, very hard to beat, because being a faster sprinter won't help. Aries says in his video it might have been the perfect race. There's no doubt in my mind that 12.80 beats 1:40.91 every day of the week (9039 probably does too), but the WAY and WHERE and WHEN Rudi did it counts enough to make it THE POY.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby tandfman » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:36 pm

gh wrote:I'm thinking that only people who weren't there in person for either race should be allowed to vote. Or maybe it's OK if you were at both.

OK, I was at both in person (all three if you put Eaton in the mix). Don't ask me to vote now. Give me a few days to let the euphoria of what I saw tonight fade. If I had to vote now, my vote would be for Merritt. When I'm a few days distant from the Brussels meet, and entirely sober (I'm currently neither) I'll re-think the question. But right now I am too blown away by what Merritt did. I think I'd feel otherwise if he had shave a hundredth or two off the WR, but . . . never mind. I'll check back in next week; let's see how I feel then.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby odelltrclan » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:43 pm

Marlow wrote:
Pego wrote:Rudisha's record may be broken by next year, Merritt's will not for a long time. It might be up there with Soto's. My vote is clearly Merritt for POY.

I also feel like 12.80 is going to be very, very hard to beat, because being a faster sprinter won't help. Aries says in his video it might have been the perfect race. There's no doubt in my mind that 12.80 beats 1:40.91 every day of the week (9039 probably does too), but the WAY and WHERE and WHEN Rudi did it counts enough to make it THE POY.


It would be a travesty for Merritt's 12.80 record not to be POY. But, then again, it would be a travesty as well for the Eaton's and Rudisha's world records to be denied as well. Too bad we cannot look 20 years into the future and see how these performance hold up against time.

I think the "rounds" of the Olympics is a little overblown. Plenty of days of rest and I don't think the rounds were particularly challenging for Rudisha. Of course the final was one for the ages as far as depth was concerned.

I think the rounds for the 110H in the Olympics are far more difficult than any other event because a slight mistake could knock you out. Less room for error and thus more pressure. Of course Merritt didn't set the WR there either.

Today's race reminded me of Nehemiah walloping fields when he took the event to a whole new level. That may be as good a hurdles race as we will ever see.
Last edited by odelltrclan on Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby mump boy » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:24 pm

It's Rudisha for me

Not because of the rounds but because setting a world record in a non sprint event at a major championships takes guts. He could have won that race anyway he chose and he chose the hardest and riskiest way. No pacemakers, no waiting to see what everyone else was going to do, no hanging round at the back and letting them go through first lap in 55 (which is what happened in every other race above 800m). He took his moment, delivered in the most spectacular way possible and took the rest of the field with him

For me it doesn't come better than WR in OG final, he could have waited for the cash at a GP but chose history instead :D
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby odelltrclan » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:43 pm

mump boy wrote:For me it doesn't come better than WR in OG final, he could have waited for the cash at a GP but chose history instead :D


Huh? It's not like he didn't try it in DL meets as well.

I think Rudisha's strategy in the OG final is what he thought gave him the best shot to win. The WR was a bonus. He didn't think anyone could hang with him if he went all out and he was right. I am not buying the argument that he was risking it all to get the WR in the OG. He ran the way he thought he could win it.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Mighty Favog » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:18 pm

No one thought 1:40.91 could be done in the Olympics, but no one thought 12.80 could be run at any time period. It's a quantum leap forward in a way that I don't think we've seen since Radcliffe and the marathon. My guess is that Rudisha and Eaton will beat their own records next year but Merritt's run will not be bettered for a generation.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:30 pm

As for the notion of a 'tie', that comes about (or not) at the aggregate level, as it is a vote. I think that the ballots have to be these three getting all of the top 3 places, and I suspect that Rudisha's will get the best aggregate. I certainly think the Olympic 800 was the best race ever (best marks for place 1-8, I think), but it is narrower for the POY.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby ATK » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:31 pm

Marlow wrote:
Pego wrote:Rudisha's record may be broken by next year, Merritt's will not for a long time. It might be up there with Soto's. My vote is clearly Merritt for POY.

I also feel like 12.80 is going to be very, very hard to beat, because being a faster sprinter won't help. Aries says in his video it might have been the perfect race. There's no doubt in my mind that 12.80 beats 1:40.91 every day of the week (9039 probably does too), but the WAY and WHERE and WHEN Rudi did it counts enough to make it THE POY.

Exactly.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby croflash » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:21 pm

The "wow" factor was bigger when Rudisha ran 1:40.91. I was excited when Merritt broke the world record, but most definitely not shocked about the time. The record was due. A lot of people have run sub 13 without executing a great race, most notably David Oliver when he was at the top of his game. He just never put it all together in one race. I don't think 12.80 is the end of line for Merritt or others who will follow.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby lionelp1 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:01 pm

mump boy wrote:It's Rudisha for me

Not because of the rounds but because setting a world record in a non sprint event at a major championships takes guts. He could have won that race anyway he chose and he chose the hardest and riskiest way. No pacemakers, no waiting to see what everyone else was going to do, no hanging round at the back and letting them go through first lap in 55 (which is what happened in every other race above 800m). He took his moment, delivered in the most spectacular way possible and took the rest of the field with him

For me it doesn't come better than WR in OG final, he could have waited for the cash at a GP but chose history instead :D


Cannot disagree with that and once again I reckon that in truth how can you really compare these two majestic performances, plus Eatons Decathlon WR.

I am certain that Merrits performance will last for decades but these young East african guys in the 800m may surprise us in the next few years.

If you can have a dead heat in a race why not in the Athlete of the Year? Its not a law of nature, just an honorary title, and merely because its not happened before, I assume,... nothing like a first time.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby lapsus » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:43 pm

I still think Rudisha's WR is POY. When was the last time a men's 800m+ WR was broken without a pacemaker, never mind in the world championships or the Olympics? And then there's the way he made it look, even though everyone else was running all-time fastest times for position. You might complain it is not very objective, but for me, only Rudisha and Bolt at their best can "shrink" their competitors like that.

When it comes to AOY, Merritt is definitely my choice.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby mump boy » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:23 am

odelltrclan wrote:
mump boy wrote:For me it doesn't come better than WR in OG final, he could have waited for the cash at a GP but chose history instead :D


Huh? It's not like he didn't try it in DL meets as well.

I think Rudisha's strategy in the OG final is what he thought gave him the best shot to win. The WR was a bonus. He didn't think anyone could hang with him if he went all out and he was right. I am not buying the argument that he was risking it all to get the WR in the OG. He ran the way he thought he could win it.


I didn't say he didn't try it at DL, i said he could have waited for DL and grabbed the cash, just like Bubka or Isi. He put it all on the line when it mattered most and made history

There hasn't been another WR in a mens middle or distance race for 36 years, they happen in sprint races all the time and there is reason for that. It takes a lot more confidence and guts to do so than it does running a 100 where there is no pacing or tactics involved.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby mump boy » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:30 am

Mighty Favog wrote:No one thought 1:40.91 could be done in the Olympics, but no one thought 12.80 could be run at any time period. It's a quantum leap forward in a way that I don't think we've seen since Radcliffe and the marathon. My guess is that Rudisha and Eaton will beat their own records next year but Merritt's run will not be bettered for a generation.


Of course they did :?

It's a .06 improvement that was bettered by Bolt in 08 and 09

Until last night 110h record has only seen an improvement of 0.07 in 30 years, (in the same period the 100m has improved .37 !!) it was due a big revision. There is no reason it can't be improved on again.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Ned Ryerson » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:31 am

mump boy wrote:I didn't say he didn't try it at DL, i said he could have waited for DL and grabbed the cash, just like Bubka or Isi. He put it all on the line when it mattered most and made history


He got plenty well paid for what he ran in London. How do you know his contract didn't have a huge financial incentive for breaking the world record at the Olympics?
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Ned Ryerson » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:34 am

mump boy wrote:There is no reason it can't be improved on again.


Maybe. Maybe not. Unless someone thinks that men could be running sub10 in the 110m Hurdles and faster, there is an absolute limit as to what the human species can do in this event. Is it 12.80 or 12.75 or quicker? Time will tell. But we'll want to see someone get within a click or two of it before guessing when it will be revised again.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:59 am

croflash wrote:The "wow" factor was bigger when Rudisha ran 1:40.91. I was excited when Merritt broke the world record, but most definitely not shocked about the time. The record was due. A lot of people have run sub 13 without executing a great race, most notably David Oliver when he was at the top of his game. He just never put it all together in one race. I don't think 12.80 is the end of line for Merritt or others who will follow.


Least shocked by 1:40.91 than any other record this year. As for the Wow during the race, the 110h is over before you know it and then it was stunning. The Dec is the other way around, it plays out over 30+ hours. None of the other WRs happen if they have the weather that several of Eaton's events had. What if he had scored 9150, which might have been feasible if the weather was good, as he lost up to a second in the 400, maybe two heights in the HJ, and cannot remember enough particulars in other events.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby ATK » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:43 pm

26mi235 wrote:None of the other WRs happen if they have the weather that several of Eaton's events had.

That's 100% assumption.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Tuariki » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:21 pm

You really do talk a load of rubbish at times.
26mi235 wrote:None of the other WRs happen if they have the weather that several of Eaton's events had.

Are you saying that no WR has happened in the rain before?

26mi235 wrote:What if he had scored 9150, which might have been feasible if the weather was good, as he lost up to a second in the 400, maybe two heights in the HJ, and cannot remember enough particulars in other events.

The point is he didn't score 9150. Neither you nor anyone else has any idea how much he lost, if anything, in the 400m or HJ because of the weather.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Ned Ryerson » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:33 pm

26mi235 wrote:Least shocked by 1:40.91 than any other record this year. As for the Wow during the race, the 110h is over before you know it and then it was stunning. The Dec is the other way around, it plays out over 30+ hours. None of the other WRs happen if they have the weather that several of Eaton's events had. What if he had scored 9150, which might have been feasible if the weather was good, as he lost up to a second in the 400, maybe two heights in the HJ, and cannot remember enough particulars in other events.


I was least shocked by Eaton. Everyone knows how good he is and how much better he can be.

The same is true of Rudisha, but it had been 36 years since a man broke the 800m world record at the Olympic Games, and I think the first time since Fiasconaro that a man led from gun to tape in a world record run.

If it means anything, Merritt had the largest world record, relative to the previous one.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby gh » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:10 pm

Ned Ryerson wrote:...I think the first time since Fiasconaro that a man led from gun to tape in a world record run....


Juanto in the '77 WUG.
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