Mixed Relays--Good idea?


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Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby aaronk » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:14 am

There have been some mixed relays run recently, and at least one more is scheduled.
Good idea??

In the 4X100, imagine a Jamaica vs USA race with the following teams:

USA: Gay, Madison, Gatlin, Jeter
Jam: Blake, VCB, Bolt, SAFP

WOW!!

Or a 4X 1 mile (or 4X 1500) between Kenya and the USA:

Kenya: Chepkosgei, Kiprop, Cherono, Kiplagat
USA: Simpson, Manzano, Uceny, Lomong

I'd pay to see those!!
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby Flumpy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:44 am

Mixed relays are a tremendous idea. They should be introduced into major champs asap.

They should be distance/Ekiden relays as the sprinters don't need any more opportunities to further inflate their already inflated medal tallies.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby mump boy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:22 am

Flumpy wrote:Mixed relays are a tremendous idea. They should be introduced into major champs asap.

They should be distance/Ekiden relays as the sprinters don't need any more opportunities to further inflate their already inflated medal tallies.


All of this ^^
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby Master Po » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:46 am

Agree with the interest, as stated above. aaronk mentioned that some of these mixed relays have been run recently. I must have been asleep not only recently, but through the entire history of of these events, because I can't think of any history, top marks, etc. for mixed relays. If anyone could post any info about such history, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby j-a-m » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:52 am

Master Po wrote:Agree with the interest, as stated above. aaronk mentioned that some of these mixed relays have been run recently. I must have been asleep not only recently, but through the entire history of of these events, because I can't think of any history, top marks, etc. for mixed relays. If anyone could post any info about such history, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

ISTAF website calls it a "world premiere".
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby j-a-m » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:58 am

In winter sports, biathlon has added a mixed relay in recent years, including at major championships. Biathlon is popular in Germany, so not a big surprise that it's a German meet organizer that includes the event. Big difference between the two, though, in that the biathlon relay exchange is pretty much irrelevant, because the event takes so much longer than the 4x100.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby Master Po » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:04 am

interesting note re biathlon, a winter sport I enjoy watching on the rare Winter OG occasions when I get a glimpse on TV. Thanks j-a-m.

Would like to see mixed relays included in the relay meet that's planned for next year. I think there's a lot of interest potential in relays, mixed and otherwise. Don't know what it's like in other countries, but relays are a big deal in prep/HS-level competition in the USA. Too bad they are somewhat less prominent in collegiate competition, and then much more limited in international/professional competitions.

In addition to wondering about the history of mixed relays, what's the actual format of the one being contested in Berlin today?
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby j-a-m » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:10 am

Master Po wrote:In addition to wondering about the history of mixed relays, what's the actual format of the one being contested in Berlin today?

Not sure, but coming up soon, so I should know more in a few minutes. ISTAF website talks about two women and two men, but doesn't seem to mention the order in which they run.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby j-a-m » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:18 am

Master Po wrote:In addition to wondering about the history of mixed relays, what's the actual format of the one being contested in Berlin today?

w-w-m-m
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby mump boy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:20 am

j-a-m wrote:
Master Po wrote:In addition to wondering about the history of mixed relays, what's the actual format of the one being contested in Berlin today?

w-w-m-m


That's no fun, they should be able to choose whatever order they want
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby aaronk » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:34 am

Linz and Zurich had mixed relays, but apparently only for youth.

At Linz, they had a 6 X 200, with the 3 girls running first, then the 3 boys.
Winning team ran 2:38.86.
Second was about 6 secs back.
Years of birth for the winning team were either 1997 or 1999, so they were about 13 and 15.

At Zurich, I'm not certain the races scheduled took place, as no results are listed.
But "school girl--school boy" relays WERE scheduled. Two of them..
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby jamal00005 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:52 am

aaronk wrote:There have been some mixed relays run recently, and at least one more is scheduled.
Good idea??

In the 4X100, imagine a Jamaica vs USA race with the following teams:

USA: Gay, Madison, Gatlin, Jeter
Jam: Blake, VCB, Bolt, SAFP

WOW!!

Or a 4X 1 mile (or 4X 1500) between Kenya and the USA:

Kenya: Chepkosgei, Kiprop, Cherono, Kiplagat
USA: Simpson, Manzano, Uceny, Lomong

I'd pay to see those!!


I too agree I'd pay to see those also
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby 18.99s » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:03 am

I'd love to see a 6x600, 3 women 3 men, with the order of male-female left up to each team.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby MightyBurner » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:19 am

I'd like to see the teams get creative with the order.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby lonewolf » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:45 pm

Gender sequence should be up to each team and not disclosed until next handoff.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby GDAWG » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:03 pm

So who was in the relays in Berlin?
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby Half Miler » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:15 pm

lonewolf wrote:Gender sequence should be up to each team and not disclosed until next handoff.


I'd love to see this change happen (order not disclosed) with the current 4x4 rules. I.E., if your team is further behind than anticipated after leg 1, put in your anchor now!
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby j-a-m » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:29 am

Half Miler wrote:I'd love to see this change happen (order not disclosed) with the current 4x4 rules. I.E., if your team is further behind than anticipated after leg 1, put in your anchor now!

Wouldn't that lead to even more confusion in the exchange zone?
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby j-a-m » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:30 am

GDAWG wrote:So who was in the relays in Berlin?

Knight - Anderson - Patton - Spearmon

Stewart - Bailey - Forsythe - Bailey-Cole
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby uakari » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:58 am

what are the results of the mixed-gender berlin relays? and is there a video of that?
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby j-a-m » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:10 pm

uakari wrote:what are the results of the mixed-gender berlin relays? and is there a video of that?

Jamaica ahead of U.S.; for both teams the last exchange was pretty bad. Don't know about a video.

http://www.istaf.de/results2012/de/re0340040.html
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby Fortis4Eva » Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:09 pm

uakari wrote:what are the results of the mixed-gender berlin relays? and is there a video of that?

http://youtu.be/IJzQOZ4bodY the video
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby aaronk » Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:35 pm

Fortis4Eva wrote:
uakari wrote:what are the results of the mixed-gender berlin relays? and is there a video of that?

http://youtu.be/IJzQOZ4bodY the video


Both had their "B" or even "C" squads.
Might go sub-40 with the "A" teams!!

Also, would much prefer they run it man-woman-man-woman (or vice versa).
Love watching the hand-offs from one gender to the other.
Definitely different technique needed.
(i.e. a man can't take off until he has baton in hand...otherwise too much chance of him running away from the woman. Also, in man to woman hand-off, they must coordinate the hand-off so the guy doesn't run up on the woman.)
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby bushop » Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:42 pm

aaronk wrote:i.e. a man can't take off until he has baton in hand...otherwise too much chance of him running away from the woman.

Did you watch the video before posting?
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby mal » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:07 am

why not alternate running forwards and backwards?
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby toyracer » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:11 am

aaronk wrote:(i.e. a man can't take off until he has baton in hand...otherwise too much chance of him running away from the woman. Also, in man to woman hand-off, they must coordinate the hand-off so the guy doesn't run up on the woman.)


Agreed on the latter, but that is the case with every 4x100m relay anyway. The incoming runner is always faster than the outgoing.

Can't say I agree with the first sentence though. Even with the difference in top end velocity I don't see a man running away from a woman once he has placed his take off mark correctly. No different from any other relay really.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby gh » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:23 am

At least in terms of the 4x1, let's be pragmatic here folks: we've already got too many occasions where passes are blown, and that's by people who have been training for years with people of relatively the same ability. As soon as you mix the sexes, everything you know about setting up a proper passing distance goes out the window.

It might make for a good sideshow, but unless it's done regularly it's nothing more than a high-wire act with a high risk of failure.

A 4x4 or longer (or a medley)? Go for it.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:04 am

gh wrote:At least in terms of the 4x1, let's be pragmatic here folks: we've already got too many occasions where passes are blown, and that's by people who have been training for years with people of relatively the same ability. As soon as you mix the sexes, everything you know about setting up a proper passing distance goes out the window.

It might make for a good sideshow, but unless it's done regularly it's nothing more than a high-wire act with a high risk of failure.

A 4x4 or longer (or a medley)? Go for it.

Amen gh! I have no interest in a mixed 4x100 for the very reasons you've mentioned. I think a 4x400 without a predetermined order would be much more entertaining. I even like the idea of a DMR, but then the order would be "de facto" predetermined.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby lonewolf » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:10 am

As gh said, the mixed relays are a side show. They are fun and entertaining and for bragging rights but that is about it.....
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby toyracer » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:01 pm

What's wrong with fun and entertaining?
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby gh » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:17 pm

dropped batons/passes at a standstill aren't my idea of fun and entertaining.

We won't even get into the increased injury potential with requirements for rapid changes in acceleration/deceleration.

A great idea when featuring teams who have had time to master the craft. Otherwise, IMHO, a disaster waiting to happen.

Imagine the hew and cry the first time an athlete of note yanked something while performing such a meaningless activity.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:20 pm

toyracer wrote:What's wrong with fun and entertaining?

To be clear, I think gh is only criticizing the 4x100 idea.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby mal » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:58 pm

toyracer wrote:What's wrong with fun and entertaining?


Lets get their offspring out and race them. They seem to be on the track at each meaningful competition.

This is circus stuff. How about chariot racing?
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:01 pm

with W1 x W2 x M1 x M2 there is only one pass from women to men, and since incoming is faster than outgoing, it just gives a bit slower incoming (just do not leave too early as there is less margin). This is NOT harder than men or women alone.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby j-a-m » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:03 am

gh wrote:A great idea when featuring teams who have had time to master the craft. Otherwise, IMHO, a disaster waiting to happen.

Exactly, 4x1 without adequate preparation is not a good idea; 4x4 is a good idea because the exchanges don't need that much practice and are less likely to cause injuries.
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Re: Mixed Relays--Good idea?

Postby toyracer » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:55 am

26mi235 wrote:with W1 x W2 x M1 x M2 there is only one pass from women to men, and since incoming is faster than outgoing, it just gives a bit slower incoming (just do not leave too early as there is less margin). This is NOT harder than men or women alone.


Agreed, 100%. Heck, because of the lower speed differential between incoming woman and outgoing man we might see better exchanges.
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