wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perković


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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby mump boy » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:42 pm

j-a-m wrote:100m and Heptathlon are inherently more valuable events than the SP; that's part of the reason why I'd pick SAFP and Ennis over Adams, regardless of whether Adams is more undefeated within her event than the others.


What total nonsense :roll:
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Vault-emort » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:23 pm

Yelena Lashmanova? Oh wait...
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby bushop » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:25 pm

j-a-m wrote:100m and Heptathlon are inherently more valuable events than the SP...

By what value system or denomination?
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby j-a-m » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:37 pm

bushop wrote:
j-a-m wrote:100m and Heptathlon are inherently more valuable events than the SP...

By what value system or denomination?

1) Overall athletic skills required
2) Number and diversity of participants worldwide
3) Maybe more that I can't think of right now
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby bushop » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:03 pm

j-a-m wrote:
bushop wrote:
j-a-m wrote:100m and Heptathlon are inherently more valuable events than the SP...
By what value system or denomination?

1) Overall athletic skills required
2) Number and diversity of participants worldwide
3) Maybe more that I can't think of right now

While I agree the multis take more overall athletic skill... the 100m does not... it's a straight line. I've worked with very quick sprinters that could not throw a ball or turn a corner.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:44 pm

bushop wrote:
j-a-m wrote:100m and Heptathlon are inherently more valuable events than the SP...

By what value system or denomination?


The big one, especially for the 100, is that the rewards are much greater so that the incentives draw in a bigger crowd. The degree of competitiveness in the field certainly is primary relevance. Winning your event one year over a much diminished field (e.g., a lot of injuries so that there are only a couple of major players) leads to the possibility that winning that event for the year is not seen as necessarily a great accomplishment. How many walkers have by even in the top 5 for AOY, much less winners, despite undefeated seasons.

Just like when T&FN determines how important a win is they depend on the nature of the field and the incentives to win. For instance, even with a good field, winning at the Trials is quite as germane because the big feature of the event is to qualify (although in a sprint everyone is likely going just about all-out, but Bolt's loss at his Trials is not quite the stunner because he still won his place on the Team).
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Tuariki » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:11 pm

j-a-m wrote:100m and Heptathlon are inherently more valuable events than the SP; that's part of the reason why I'd pick SAFP and Ennis over Adams, regardless of whether Adams is more undefeated within her event than the others.


j-a-m wrote:
bushop wrote:By what value system or denomination?

1) Overall athletic skills required
2) Number and diversity of participants worldwide
3) Maybe more that I can't think of right now


You really and truly are dim-witted.
So what particular range of overall athletic skills are you talking about in regards to the 100m over any other event. Having run the 100m (not very well) and thrown the shot (even worse than my 100m) I believe it is a lot harder skill-wise trying to throw the shot.

Using your ridiculous argument for overall skills can only mean that you consider the #1 heptathlete wins by default every year given the heptathlete must be skilled in 7 different events compared to one event for everyone else.

Number and diversity of participants? And so there are sh**loads of athletes out there competing in the heptathlon?? Haven't seen them myself. Admittedly I don't see many shotputters either, but logic says there must be more shotputters than heptathletes because every heptathlete is by definition also a shotputter.

I am a great supporter and admirer of Jamaican sprinting success. And it is fun to occasionally wind up some of the more sensitive American posters on this subject. However, it seems you are one ridiculous one-eyed Jamaican poster who will do anything to twist reality to come out with a Jamaican winner.

SAFP is a great champion. No doubt about that. She will be a deserving #1 for the 100m. But her 2012 record is just not in the ballpark for AOY compared to Adams, Ennis, Perkovic and Felix. And even SRR has, IMO, a better overall record than SAFP.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:22 pm

Tuariki, no need to be so vehement. He does have the point that I made above that the 100 is where the biggest dollars are and hence it draws the biggest group of substantial talent. Being the best of a bigger, more competitive event does indicate one aspect of relative performance (SAFP wont win because she is only 3-3 versus even one other athlete). Why are you (and others) not campaigning for the undefeated walks specialist every year -- in part because you know the competition is thinner. Thus, the size of the top competitive group matters.

I like the multis and think that they are a version of the top athlete. However, as you indicate, the field is thin (in part because you have to survive training and competitions). The point about all multi-eventers being shot putters, however, is one that does not match your level of expertise, by that type of thinking 6 billion people have run and jumped so those are the big events.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby toyracer » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:38 pm

Tuariki wrote:SAFP is a great champion. No doubt about that. She will be a deserving #1 for the 100m. But her 2012 record is just not in the ballpark for AOY compared to Adams, Ennis, Perkovic and Felix. And even SRR has, IMO, a better overall record than SAFP.


I'll gladly concede Adams, Ennis & Perkovic, but not Felix or SR-R. Neither Felix nor Richards-Ross earned a medal in their second event when they doubled at the Olympics; S-AF-P went gold, silver.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Tuariki » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:54 pm

26mi235 wrote:Tuariki, no need to be so vehement.

Vehemence?? You should have seen the first version of my submission. If it looks stupid, sounds stupid, feels stupid, smells stupid - it probably is stupid.

26mi235 wrote: He does have the point that I made above that the 100 is where the biggest dollars are and hence it draws the biggest group of substantial talent. Being the best of a bigger, more competitive event does indicate one aspect of relative performance ........ Thus, the size of the top competitive group matters.


Sorry, but that's a stupid comment as well. If this is the case then there is no need to debate AOY because it will go to the #1 marathoner as I have a suspicion there are heaps more people running in competitive marathons than any event held inside the stadium.
26mi235 wrote:The point about all multi-eventers being shot putters, however, is one that does not match your level of expertise, by that type of thinking 6 billion people have run and jumped so those are the big events.

And this is another dumb comment. Whether you like it or not every heptathlete IS a competitive shot putter, even if it is restricted solely to the heptathlon. Your reasoning implies that I an saying that every one of the 6 billion plus on this planet of ours is involved in competitive athletics. I did not say that. And you sure as hell can't logically come to that conclusion unless you have found some obscure form of calculus that enables you to do so.

The total sample base I am referring to are those persons who are registered in their countries as competitive Track and Field athletes. In New Zealand that was 18,944 in 2011. I would not have a clue how many of those 18,944 are female 100m, heptathlon or shot putters. I am prepared however to hazard a guess that there are more marathoners than any other event.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Tuariki » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:00 pm

toyracer wrote:
Tuariki wrote:SAFP is a great champion. No doubt about that. She will be a deserving #1 for the 100m. But her 2012 record is just not in the ballpark for AOY compared to Adams, Ennis, Perkovic and Felix. And even SRR has, IMO, a better overall record than SAFP.


I'll gladly concede Adams, Ennis & Perkovic, but not Felix or SR-R. Neither Felix nor Richards-Ross earned a medal in their second event when they doubled at the Olympics; S-AF-P went gold, silver.

Felix, SRR and SAFP all had great seasons and one could come up with sound logic in support of each. Judging them on their performances over the two individual events they competed in at London I agree SAFP comes out ahead of Felix and SRR. Looking solely at their best event I would still put Felix ahead of SAFP.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Half Miler » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:09 pm

Has to be Adams.

And it's about time.

( Because she is the Olympic champ, and because she is strong, and because she is undefeated and because she is beautiful. ) :)
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby j-a-m » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:19 pm

26mi235 wrote:I like the multis and think that they are a version of the top athlete.

What I'd like to add to that and to my own previous post is the question of how basic a skill or a combination of skills is. Comparing t&f to other sports, running fast is a more basic human skill than swimming, much more basic than skating, and the margin increases even further if you compare it to golf. And while the differences within t&f are probably smaller then between t&f and other sports, there are significant differences as well.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Flumpy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:42 am

Vault-emort wrote:Yelena Lashmanova? Oh wait...


That's a very good point. She won the Olympics in a WR and the World Race Walking Cup.

Did she have any other competitions?
Last edited by Flumpy on Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Flumpy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:49 am

j-a-m wrote:
26mi235 wrote:I like the multis and think that they are a version of the top athlete.

What I'd like to add to that and to my own previous post is the question of how basic a skill or a combination of skills is. Comparing t&f to other sports, running fast is a more basic human skill than swimming, much more basic than skating, and the margin increases even further if you compare it to golf. And while the differences within t&f are probably smaller then between t&f and other sports, there are significant differences as well.


But none of that is a criteria on which to base AOY. You can't just make up your own rules.

We have to start from the assumption that all events are equal otherwise the whole procedure is flawed from the outset.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby EPelle » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:01 am

Flumpy wrote:
Vault-emort wrote:Yelena Lashmanova? Oh wait...


That's a very good point she. Won the Olympics in a WR and the World Race Walking Cup.

Did she have any other competitions?

2nd at the Russian Race Walking Championships in February (1.26.30).
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Flumpy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:04 am

Well that throws the cat amongst the pigeons and moves SAFP, AF and SRR down another spot.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby aaronk » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:45 am

EPelle wrote:
Flumpy wrote:
Vault-emort wrote:Yelena Lashmanova? Oh wait...


That's a very good point she. Won the Olympics in a WR and the World Race Walking Cup.

Did she have any other competitions?

2nd at the Russian Race Walking Championships in February (1.26.30).


Does anyone know what the highest placing in the AOY voting (male or female) a walker (either 20K or 50K, or both) ever received??

Any in the Top Ten??
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby TrackFan4Ever » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:17 am

Flumpy wrote:
TrackFan4Ever wrote:I really do not understand this "backhand slap" at Felix.


Nobody is giving Felix a 'backhand slap'. This has nothing to do with the public's perception. In AOY discussion relay gold medals are not counted therefore the fact that she won 3 golds is irrelevant.

She had a fantastic year and will be extremely happy with her Olympic performances but AOY goes to the person whose individual accomplishments are deemed to be the most impressive.

With so few competitions this year in her primary event and mixed results in her secondary Allyson Felix doesn't come close.


You missed my point and that can happen if you detach my last sentence from the preceding sentences. I am not arguing for Felix as AOY. I am taking issue with the statement that, "She's puffed up in the public perception because of the 3 golds, 2 of which could still have been accomplished if you swapped her out for a less capable runner." Felix is justifiably "puffed up" in the public perception because of the 3 golds! It is a "backhand slap" to state the relay golds would still have been won with less capable runners. It minimizes the exceptional legs that Felix ran on the relays.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Flumpy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:04 am

But is still a statement of fact. Relay medals are entirely dependent on which country you come from and shouldn't be valued as highly as an individual ones when determining someones accomplishments.

Her 3 gold medals will 'puff her up' in the public's perception but the truth is had she come from Canada she'd only have 1.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby mump boy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:24 am

Half Miler wrote:Has to be Adams.

And it's about time.

( Because she is the Olympic champ, and because she is strong, and because she is undefeated and because she is beautiful. ) :)


Amen to all of that :D
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby toyracer » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:04 am

Tuariki wrote:
toyracer wrote:
Tuariki wrote:SAFP is a great champion. No doubt about that. She will be a deserving #1 for the 100m. But her 2012 record is just not in the ballpark for AOY compared to Adams, Ennis, Perkovic and Felix. And even SRR has, IMO, a better overall record than SAFP.


I'll gladly concede Adams, Ennis & Perkovic, but not Felix or SR-R. Neither Felix nor Richards-Ross earned a medal in their second event when they doubled at the Olympics; S-AF-P went gold, silver.

Felix, SRR and SAFP all had great seasons and one could come up with sound logic in support of each. Judging them on their performances over the two individual events they competed in at London I agree SAFP comes out ahead of Felix and SRR. Looking solely at their best event I would still put Felix ahead of SAFP.


For AOY consideration one has to look at all individual events an athlete chose to compete in. One can't cherry pick a single event if an athlete chose to double and didn't do well in the second. To say that S-AF-P "2012 record is just not in the ballpark for AOY compared to .....Felix" is disingenuous because you'd have to ignore a national championship and silver medal plus PB's in each instance for S-AF-P while conveniently similarly ignoring a national championship 3rd place tie and Olympic 5th place for Felix.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Tuariki » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:35 am

toyracer wrote:For AOY consideration one has to look at all individual events an athlete chose to compete in. One can't cherry pick a single event if an athlete chose to double and didn't do well in the second. To say that S-AF-P "2012 record is just not in the ballpark for AOY compared to .....Felix" is disingenuous because you'd have to ignore a national championship and silver medal plus PB's in each instance for S-AF-P while conveniently similarly ignoring a national championship 3rd place tie and Olympic 5th place for Felix.

Then based on your logic Eaton and Ennis have no chance as you would have to take into account their "failures" in the various individual events they competed in. IMO you can only judge the AOY based on a single individual event.
Also I think PBs are irrelevant. What is relevant is the performance; PB or no PB.
Therefore Felix and her 200m record against SAFPs 100m. And IMO Felix wins.
However, it doesn't matter as AOY should be Adams, then Ennis, then Perkovic
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby bushop » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:04 am

mump boy wrote:
Half Miler wrote:Has to be Adams.
And it's about time.
(Because she is the Olympic champ, and because she is strong, and because she is undefeated and because she is beautiful.) :)
Amen to all of that :D

Amen, and while it's not a criteria... she's due.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby nevetsllim » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:30 am

Not sure how high she'll be placed but I think Tiki Gelana is deserving of a top-10 spot. Won Rotterdam in 2:18:58 followed by a gold medal in London in an Olympic record of 2:23:07.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby toyracer » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:32 pm

Tuariki wrote:
toyracer wrote:For AOY consideration one has to look at all individual events an athlete chose to compete in. One can't cherry pick a single event if an athlete chose to double and didn't do well in the second. To say that S-AF-P "2012 record is just not in the ballpark for AOY compared to .....Felix" is disingenuous because you'd have to ignore a national championship and silver medal plus PB's in each instance for S-AF-P while conveniently similarly ignoring a national championship 3rd place tie and Olympic 5th place for Felix.

Then based on your logic Eaton and Ennis have no chance as you would have to take into account their "failures" in the various individual events they competed in.


Wow.

You really like to stretch a point as far as possible, and then some.

You just breezed by the fact that "individual" used in that context meant the athlete, not a single event/discipline. "Individual" as in "not having to rely on others in a team combined event" e.g. 4x100m relay.

And SB's, PB's, NC's and NR's aren't relevant for judging an Athlete of the Year?
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Tuariki » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:36 pm

toyracer wrote:Wow.

You really like to stretch a point as far as possible, and then some.


If it is OK for Paul Ryan then it should be OK for me. And, being a former politician I also have that as an excuse.

toyracer wrote:You just breezed by the fact that "individual" used in that context meant the athlete, not a single event/discipline. "Individual" as in "not having to rely on others in a team combined event" e.g. 4x100m relay.

And SB's, PB's, NC's and NR's aren't relevant for judging an Athlete of the Year?

I do not believe SBs and PBs and NRs are at all relevant other than in the context they represent a great individual performance.

An NC can be relevant in the context the individual beat a world class field. So the US and Jamaican 100m and 200m NCs are of course relevant given the quality of the other competitors. On the other hand winning the US and Jamaican hammer NC is not particularly relevant.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:02 pm

Flumpy wrote:But is still a statement of fact. Relay medals are entirely dependent on which country you come from and shouldn't be valued as highly as an individual ones when determining someones accomplishments.

Her 3 gold medals will 'puff her up' in the public's perception but the truth is had she come from Canada she'd only have 1.



It is a 'journeymen'-type mis-statement of fact. First, Felix is the core of those relays, and if it was so easy, how come it took so many years to take it down, and to completely outclass the Jamaicans that had 103 in the 100. Second, you certainly would have them lose their relay medals if AF had a drug positive, even a stimulant. So, ...


Finally, why are people talking nonsense about incentives not mattering at all in terms of the likely level of competition in an event. I am not saying that it is always guaranteed to have the biggest field of top athletes in the 100, and you do not determine best fields by mailing in the incentives of the event, so the shot or the hammer or the discus or the walks could have deeper competition sometimes. But they do not have the deepest fields most of the time.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:12 pm

26mi235 wrote:It is a 'journeymen'-type mis-statement of fact. First, Felix is the core of those relays, and if it was so easy, how come it took so many years to take it down, and to completely outclass the Jamaicans that had 103 in the 100.

Because the teams with the footspeed (U.S. and Jamaica) have always gone into global championships undercoached and unprepared. A couple of days ago, I ran into a very respected coach who has been on the staff of U.S. national teams on a couple of occasions. When I asked him what he thought of the 4x100 records in London, he answered, "What took them so long?"
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Tuariki » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:09 pm

26mi235 wrote:
Flumpy wrote:But is still a statement of fact. Relay medals are entirely dependent on which country you come from and shouldn't be valued as highly as an individual ones when determining someones accomplishments.

Her 3 gold medals will 'puff her up' in the public's perception but the truth is had she come from Canada she'd only have 1.



It is a 'journeymen'-type mis-statement of fact. First, Felix is the core of those relays, and if it was so easy, how come it took so many years to take it down, and to completely outclass the Jamaicans that had 103 in the 100. Second, you certainly would have them lose their relay medals if AF had a drug positive, even a stimulant. So, ...


Finally, why are people talking nonsense about incentives not mattering at all in terms of the likely level of competition in an event. I am not saying that it is always guaranteed to have the biggest field of top athletes in the 100, and you do not determine best fields by mailing in the incentives of the event, so the shot or the hammer or the discus or the walks could have deeper competition sometimes. But they do not have the deepest fields most of the time.

Journeyman Flumpy is right. Relays have no role to play in AOY. TOY yes. AOY no. [TOY = team of the year]. Felix may be the core of the relay but IMO there must then be 4 cores because last time I check all 4 cores need to be there.

You appear to place Felix ahead of Jeter and the others in value - an interesting assessment to say the least.

I think it is inappropriate to make comments about a "what if" positive drug test for Felix.

As far as deepness of fields can you please provide us with your basis for making such a claim. If you take the deepness of a field as being rated against the finalists in London then the men's and women's shot in the DL's after the Olympics seem to have pretty deep fields to me compared to the 100m, 200m for both men and women.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Flumpy » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:49 am

nevetsllim wrote:Not sure how high she'll be placed but I think Tiki Gelana is deserving of a top-10 spot. Won Rotterdam in 2:18:58 followed by a gold medal in London in an Olympic record of 2:23:07.


Alysson and Sanya aren't even going to make the Top 10 at this rate :lol:
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby mump boy » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:10 am

Why is nobody mentioning these 2 ?

Cakir

1500m 01.07 Helsinki European Championships 1. 4:05.31
1500m 06.07 Paris Meeting AREVA 2. 3:56.62 (1st after Selsouli DQ)
1500m 10.08 London Olympic Games 1. 4:10.23

Zaripova

3000mSC 03.07 Cheboksary Russian Ch. 1. 9:09.99
3000mSC 06.08 London Olympic Games 1. 9:06.72
3000mSC 17.08 Stockholm DN Galan 1. 9:05.02

They've had unbeaten seasons with super fast times, Zaripova is 2nd fastest ever

I think they are right up there and should be considered :P
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby gh » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:19 am

aaronk wrote:
EPelle wrote:
Flumpy wrote:
Vault-emort wrote:Yelena Lashmanova? Oh wait...


That's a very good point she. Won the Olympics in a WR and the World Race Walking Cup.

Did she have any other competitions?

2nd at the Russian Race Walking Championships in February (1.26.30).


Does anyone know what the highest placing in the AOY voting (male or female) a walker (either 20K or 50K, or both) ever received??

Any in the Top Ten??


I'm guessing it was Korzeniowski's No. 4 in '00.

There's a listing of all the voting in our Archive.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby bobguild76 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:21 am

gh wrote:
aaronk wrote:
Does anyone know what the highest placing in the AOY voting (male or female) a walker (either 20K or 50K, or both) ever received??

Any in the Top Ten??


I'm guessing it was Korzeniowski's No. 4 in '00.

There's a listing of all the voting in our Archive.


Not only that, but he was the #5 ranked AOD, just one spot below Usain Bolt! The pre-eminent perambulator!
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby tm71 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:04 pm

i think it has been mentioned before that relays do not count in the cosidering the AOY so felix and SRR have to depend on their individual races in the 100 and 200 (for felix) and 200 and 400 for SRR. Felix will clearly rank # 1 in the 200, but no higher than 5th in the 100. SRR will clearly rank # 1 in the 400, but no higher than 4th in the 200. Adams and Perkovic will be considered given the fact they were undefeated. Ennis has the same problem with Eaton, two wins with large margins, including beating the defending champion in the OG. The only thing she did not do was exceed 7000 points (WR would be totally unrealistic). But in a year without individual WRs she has a good chance. Someone mentioned the 4 x 1 relay, well that will clearly be the performance of the year (maybe decade).
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Tuariki » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:17 pm

tm71 wrote:i think it has been mentioned before that relays do not count in the cosidering the AOY so felix and SRR have to depend on their individual races in the 100 and 200 (for felix) and 200 and 400 for SRR. Felix will clearly rank # 1 in the 200, but no higher than 5th in the 100. SRR will clearly rank # 1 in the 400, but no higher than 4th in the 200. Adams and Perkovic will be considered given the fact they were undefeated. Ennis has the same problem with Eaton, two wins with large margins, including beating the defending champion in the OG. The only thing she did not do was exceed 7000 points (WR would be totally unrealistic). But in a year without individual WRs she has a good chance. Someone mentioned the 4 x 1 relay, well that will clearly be the performance of the year (maybe decade).

Why do you say the world record is totally unrealistic for Ennis?
Is it because you think she is not good enough? or
Is it because you think the WR is "tainted"" in someway.
These would seem to be the only options for your claim. So which one is it? Or is there another option?
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby tm71 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:42 pm

Tuariki wrote:
tm71 wrote:i think it has been mentioned before that relays do not count in the cosidering the AOY so felix and SRR have to depend on their individual races in the 100 and 200 (for felix) and 200 and 400 for SRR. Felix will clearly rank # 1 in the 200, but no higher than 5th in the 100. SRR will clearly rank # 1 in the 400, but no higher than 4th in the 200. Adams and Perkovic will be considered given the fact they were undefeated. Ennis has the same problem with Eaton, two wins with large margins, including beating the defending champion in the OG. The only thing she did not do was exceed 7000 points (WR would be totally unrealistic). But in a year without individual WRs she has a good chance. Someone mentioned the 4 x 1 relay, well that will clearly be the performance of the year (maybe decade).

Why do you say the world record is totally unrealistic for Ennis?
Is it because you think she is not good enough? or
Is it because you think the WR is "tainted"" in someway.
These would seem to be the only options for your claim. So which one is it? Or is there another option?


dude u can make those speculations at your own peril. i simply said that the WR is unrealistic given that it is almost 300 points more than what ennis personal best. in order for her to get near it she would have to start jumping close to 7 m in the long jump and throw over 50 m in the javelin (i dont think she can improve that much in the hurdles, high jump, 200 and 800). however what we are discussing here is the 2012 AOY, not whether Ennis can challenge a mark no one has challenged in over two decades.
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby mump boy » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:06 pm

According to IAAF these are from 'principle' competitions so not 100% if any missed

Perkovic lost in Paris but has competed 11 times,

Adams has never lost but competed 7 times this summer (there are probably more competitions southern hemisphere this winter)

Sanya has a loss over her premier event from 7 starts

Allyson hasn't lost but only competed in 3 finals at 200m

Chicherova's 3rd on London was her only loss from 5 competitions

Jess is 2 for 2

Don't forget that Zaripova and Cakir are also 3 for 3 this year

I'm not happy by the lack of competition from some people this year, unless you're in multi events or MAR 5 competitions is not acceptable
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby toyracer » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:28 pm

mump boy wrote:According to IAAF these are from 'principle' competitions so not 100% if any missed


i couldn't find criteria for Athlete of the Year, care to share a link?
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Re: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic

Postby Tuariki » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:02 pm

tm71 wrote:
Tuariki wrote:
tm71 wrote:i think it has been mentioned before that relays do not count in the cosidering the AOY so felix and SRR have to depend on their individual races in the 100 and 200 (for felix) and 200 and 400 for SRR. Felix will clearly rank # 1 in the 200, but no higher than 5th in the 100. SRR will clearly rank # 1 in the 400, but no higher than 4th in the 200. Adams and Perkovic will be considered given the fact they were undefeated. Ennis has the same problem with Eaton, two wins with large margins, including beating the defending champion in the OG. The only thing she did not do was exceed 7000 points (WR would be totally unrealistic). But in a year without individual WRs she has a good chance. Someone mentioned the 4 x 1 relay, well that will clearly be the performance of the year (maybe decade).

Why do you say the world record is totally unrealistic for Ennis?
Is it because you think she is not good enough? or
Is it because you think the WR is "tainted"" in someway.
These would seem to be the only options for your claim. So which one is it? Or is there another option?


dude u can make those speculations at your own peril. i simply said that the WR is unrealistic given that it is almost 300 points more than what ennis personal best. in order for her to get near it she would have to start jumping close to 7 m in the long jump and throw over 50 m in the javelin (i dont think she can improve that much in the hurdles, high jump, 200 and 800). however what we are discussing here is the 2012 AOY, not whether Ennis can challenge a mark no one has challenged in over two decades.

You have answered my query. You don't think she is good enough. You are probably right.
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