A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (Locked down several times a year during the major championships)
Oh how things are different between sports. Melky admits to doping and gets a whopping 50-game suspension (less than 1/3 of his season, right?), and will still probably make millions of dollars this year. How can Joe-Sixpack still continue believing that there is less of a PED problem in the big-money sports than in T&F and/or cycling? Maybe this will be a good for the reputation of T&F, as it's coming right on the heals of an Olymipcs with no high-profile (to the general public) steroid disqualifications (from T&F, anyway).
Grasshopper wrote: How can Joe-Sixpack still continue believing that there is less of a PED problem in the big-money sports than in T&F and/or cycling?
Belief has nothing to do with it. The public really doesn't care, especially when it comes to team sports.
Grasshopper wrote: How can Joe-Sixpack still continue believing that there is less of a PED problem in the big-money sports than in T&F and/or cycling?
Belief has nothing to do with it. The public really doesn't care, especially when it comes to team sports.
Exactly. Why does that fact seem to never actually register here? For the public, steroid busts are only "popular" in sports no one cares about.
Grasshopper wrote: How can Joe-Sixpack still continue believing that there is less of a PED problem in the big-money sports than in T&F and/or cycling?
Belief has nothing to do with it. The public really doesn't care, especially when it comes to team sports.
Besides the fact that the media (who make a killing off of those team sports) touts how good their drug testing programs are, etc. and moves on to the next topic at hand like it is an after thought. They make no attempt at other events (cycling, track, etc.) because they don't have a vested interest in them. If they were to report how corrupt and dirty those sports were, they would only be shooting themselves in the feet and they know it.
The 50 games costs Cabrera about $2 million in salary. Additionally this is a contract year for him so he likely just cost himself many millions more on a fat extension the Giants were working on. Not to mention the Giants lose one of their key players for the playoff drive. That's a decent penalty in most folk's books.
bad hammy wrote:The 50 games costs Cabrera about $2 million in salary. Additionally this is a contract year for him so he likely just cost himself many millions more on a fat extension the Giants were working on. Not to mention the Giants lose one of their key players for the playoff drive. That's a decent penalty in most folk's books.
bad hammy wrote:The 50 games costs Cabrera about $2 million in salary. Additionally this is a contract year for him so he likely just cost himself many millions more on a fat extension the Giants were working on. Not to mention the Giants lose one of their key players for the playoff drive. That's a decent penalty in most folk's books.
True, but it still only a third of the season.
...and how much money does he still make off the season? Probably quite a large sum. Also, do the Giants forfeit all the wins that Cabrera helped earn (in the way that relay teams forfeit their medals when one member is DQ'd)?
bad hammy wrote:The 50 games costs Cabrera about $2 million in salary. Additionally this is a contract year for him so he likely just cost himself many millions more on a fat extension the Giants were working on. Not to mention the Giants lose one of their key players for the playoff drive. That's a decent penalty in most folk's books.
True, but it still only a third of the season.
...and how much money does he still make off the season? Probably quite a large sum. Also, do the Giants forfeit all the wins that Cabrera helped earn (in the way that relay teams forfeit their medals when one member is DQ'd)?
Nope, baseball chose not to follow the "Let's kill off our sport" path that T&F uses in dealing with PEDs.
I continue to be astounded by otherwise sensible posters refusal to accept that there is a monstrous difference between cheating in a skill-based team sport compared to cheating in a sport defined by optimal individual physical performance (never mind the fraud involved in taking other athlete's prize money, endorsement fees, moment-of-glory, creating bogus reputations, cheating the public, screwing up performance lists etc etc etc).
bad hammy wrote:The 50 games costs Cabrera about $2 million in salary. Additionally this is a contract year for him so he likely just cost himself many millions more on a fat extension the Giants were working on. Not to mention the Giants lose one of their key players for the playoff drive. That's a decent penalty in most folk's books.
True, but it still only a third of the season.
...and how much money does he still make off the season? Probably quite a large sum. Also, do the Giants forfeit all the wins that Cabrera helped earn (in the way that relay teams forfeit their medals when one member is DQ'd)?
For the first time today...I heard a couple of ex players suggest just this. Dale Murphy being one of them.
Grasshopper wrote:...and how much money does he still make off the season? Probably quite a large sum. Also, do the Giants forfeit all the wins that Cabrera helped earn (in the way that relay teams forfeit their medals when one member is DQ'd)?
For the first time today...I heard a couple of ex players suggest just this. Dale Murphy being one of them.
Grasshopper wrote:...and how much money does he still make off the season? Probably quite a large sum. Also, do the Giants forfeit all the wins that Cabrera helped earn (in the way that relay teams forfeit their medals when one member is DQ'd)?
For the first time today...I heard a couple of ex players suggest just this. Dale Murphy being one of them.
That would be an actual deterrent.
You would think so. Teammates and fans would not be quite so forgiving.
Grasshopper wrote:...and how much money does he still make off the season? Probably quite a large sum.
His salary was $6 mil this year. His lifetime MLB earnings prior to this year were about $6.6 mil. Of course he should be in good shape but he'll feel a bit of pain.
Conor Dary wrote:
j-a-m wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
Grasshopper wrote:Also, do the Giants forfeit all the wins that Cabrera helped earn (in the way that relay teams forfeit their medals when one member is DQ'd)?
For the first time today...I heard a couple of ex players suggest just this. Dale Murphy being one of them.
That would be an actual deterrent.
You would think so. Teammates and fans would not be quite so forgiving.
Interesting idea - that could be an excellent deterrent. Of course neither the owners or players would ever voluntarily go for it.
marknhj wrote:I continue to be astounded by otherwise sensible posters refusal to accept that there is a monstrous difference between cheating in a skill-based team sport compared to cheating in a sport defined by optimal individual physical performance (never mind the fraud involved in taking other athlete's prize money, endorsement fees, moment-of-glory, creating bogus reputations, cheating the public, screwing up performance lists etc etc etc).
Ok, please elaborate on your statement. Please describe why:
1. There should be a monstrous difference between cheating in team sports and cheating in "other" sports.
marknhj wrote: difference between cheating in a skill-based team sport
In baseball, being stronger and hitting with more power leads to better performances. And that's exactly what many substances on the WADA list are about. In addition, baseball has a long season with short recovery times, which is what some other substances on the list are about.
bad hammy wrote: Interesting idea - that could be an excellent deterrent. Of course neither the owners or players would ever voluntarily go for it.
Of course not. But I would be curious if the baseball writers take up this cause. It certainly would be a great idea. If you thought Gatlin got a bad reception in London see what kind of reception Cabrera in San Francisco would get if the Giants had to default on even 10 games. Ha!
On the radio this morning, I heard a baseball insider say that attittudes among players are starting to change and lot of them are pissed off at Cabrera, not for any altruistic reasons but because he was about to be a free agent and if he wasn't caught, he would have gotten an eight-figure contract which means less money available for them.
Cabrera gets to sit out a suspension with team mate Guillermo Mota who is serving a 100 gamer for getting caught a second time.
The American League contenders are PO'd at him because the National League World Series representative will have home field advantage in large part due to winning the All-Star Game and Melkman's All-Star Game MVP performance.
Cabrera could also win the NL batting title if Andrew McCutchen's average drops more than 13 points. What will Bud Selig do?
Old acquaintance "Accelerator" was on. He did a nice job explaining how it's pretty easy to do as you please in terms of continued PED use in MLB. But maybe that was the idea, look like you were doing something but do nothing?
Old acquaintance "Accelerator" was on. He did a nice job explaining how it's pretty easy to do as you please in terms of continued PED use in MLB. But maybe that was the idea, look like you were doing something but do nothing?
That sounds about right. But baseball writers still babble on about the steroid era, as if somehow it ended.
I still continue to be amazed at the difference in reaction to a MLB player testing positive and an NFL player testing positive.
We are beginning to see the call for game results to be overturned...something I think is extremely far fetched. Can anyone imagine suggesting that in the NFL?
Old acquaintance "Accelerator" was on. He did a nice job explaining how it's pretty easy to do as you please in terms of continued PED use in MLB. But maybe that was the idea, look like you were doing something but do nothing?
The NFL has been doing this for at least two decades.
Dutra5 wrote:I still continue to be amazed at the difference in reaction to a MLB player testing positive and an NFL player testing positive.
We are beginning to see the call for game results to be overturned...something I think is extremely far fetched. Can anyone imagine suggesting that in the NFL?
<<Dark shadows How would MLB feel if Melky Cabrera, now viewed as a fraud, won the batting title? He'll wind up with 501 plate appearances, one shy of the minimum requirement to qualify, but according to the so-called Tony Gwynn rule, officially 10.22 (a), all plate appearances short of the minimum are allowed to be counted as outs. (Gwynn hit .353 in 498 plate appearances in 1996, but was awarded the batting title because his adjusted .349 bettered the .344 of second-ranked Ellis Burks.) Cabrera's average would factor out to .3457, so that's the target to be surpassed by Andrew McCutchen or anyone else. I believe Bud Selig just checked with McCutchen to make sure he has enough pine tar ...>>
Dutra5 wrote:Selig just simply come out and declare that Cabrera is not eligible for the batting title. I can't see the downside to that.
The downside of that would be that it's an arbitray ruling after the fact; and it wouldn't be made to solve the issue, but rather to avoid negative press. The right decision for Selig would be put something like this in place for future seasons, but give Melky the batting title if he wins it this year, and live with the justified negative press.
Dutra5 wrote:Selig just simply come out and declare that Cabrera is not eligible for the batting title. I can't see the downside to that.
The downside of that would be that it's an arbitray ruling after the fact; and it wouldn't be made to solve the issue, but rather to avoid negative press. The right decision for Selig would be put something like this in place for future seasons, but give Melky the batting title if he wins it this year, and live with the justified negative press.
I agree with this, you can't make up rules after the fact. Shawne Merriman still got the sack title in 2006. The union would never stand for Cabrera being denied the batting crown.
This, fortunately, opens a big can of worms for Selig. If you say the batting title doesn't count, what about home runs hit during a career? Pitching wins? What to do?????
Dutra5 wrote:Selig just simply come out and declare that Cabrera is not eligible for the batting title. I can't see the downside to that.
The downside of that would be that it's an arbitray ruling after the fact; and it wouldn't be made to solve the issue, but rather to avoid negative press. The right decision for Selig would be put something like this in place for future seasons, but give Melky the batting title if he wins it this year, and live with the justified negative press.
I agree with this, you can't make up rules after the fact. Shawne Merriman still got the sack title in 2006. The union would never stand for Cabrera being denied the batting crown.
While I agree with some of the points being made, does the union have any say on who wins the batting crown? Is that part of the CBA?
Selig should add to Cabrera's punishment after orchestrating such an elaborate lie after being caught redhanded.
The scheme began unfolding in July as Cabrera and his representatives scrambled to explain a spike in the former Yankee's testosterone levels. Cabrera associate Juan Nunez, described by the player's agents, Seth and Sam Levinson, as a "paid consultant" of their firm but not an "employee," is alleged to have paid $10,000 to acquire the phony website. The idea, apparently, was to lay a trail of digital breadcrumbs suggesting Cabrera had ordered a supplement that ended up causing the positive test, and to rely on a clause in the collectively bargained drug program that allows a player who has tested positive to attempt to prove he ingested a banned substance through no fault of his own.
"There was a product they said caused this positive," one source familiar with the case said of Cabrera's scheme. "Baseball figured out the ruse pretty quickly."
