¶2012 OG: mMar–Stephen Kiprotich (Uganda) 2:08:01

[Conor Dary]

I thought it was great that all of the splits were at mile points. Screw the metric system!

[Conor Dary]

Not only Hall and Abdi dropped out but 18 others! What's behind that?

The weather I presume. Kiprotich in 3rd ran almost 32 minutes for the last 10k, off an average, for these days, first 20 miles.

The overall times could have been from a race in the 1980's.

[Master Po]

Not only Hall and Abdi dropped out but 18 others! What's behind that?

Don't know what's behind it, but I can tell you that 18 is pretty typical DNF # for a men's OG marathon. Here are the men's DNFs in recent OG marathons:
2008 - 19
2004 - 20
2000 - 19
1996 - 13
1992 - 23
1988 - 20
1984 - 29

women's OG marathon tends to have rather fewer DNFs. This OG, 11. Prior OG:
2008 - 12
2004 - 16
2000 - 8
1996 - 21
1992 - 9
1988 - 5
1984 - 6

[Conor Dary]

Not only Hall and Abdi dropped out but 18 others! What's behind that?

Don't know what's behind it, but I can tell you that 18 is pretty typical DNF # for a men's OG marathon. Here are the men's DNFs in recent OG marathons:
2008 - 19
2004 - 20
2000 - 19
1996 - 13
1992 - 23
1988 - 20
1984 - 29

women's OG marathon tends to have rather fewer DNFs. This OG, 11. Prior OG:
2008 - 12
2004 - 16
2000 - 8
1996 - 21
1992 - 9
1988 - 5
1984 - 6

Not surprising. There is no money, and little reward for finishing outside the top 3. Save it for another day. Hall did the right thing, if things weren't feeling right.

PS. Also the Olympic marathon usually is in the middle of the day.
PPS. Why did they start the race at 11am? It didn't finish in the stadium so timing with the Closing Ceremonies was irrelevant. They could have started the race hours earlier.

[Master Po]

The overall times could have been from a race in the 1980's.

Depends on what we're comparing. Compared w marathons in general, I suppose that's right, and is also true for the 1990s, when as late as 1996 a 2:08 was the fastest time in the world and 1997 a 2:08 would get you in the top 10 list for the year. But it seems odd to compare OG marathons to marathons in general, which are more and more optimized for fast times, and which OG marathons, by their course design and time of year/day, are clearly not. I know you know this, so I'm puzzled by your dismissal of this race's times.

Here are some comparisons with other OG marathons:
Only one other OG marathon has had 3 medalists under 2:10 (1984, as you know. So, 3 @ sub-2:10 in an OG marathon is rare.)

We all also know that Wanjiru's 2:06:32 & Gharib's 2:07:01 in Beijing are OR and best mark for silver medal, but give Kipsang his due -- his 2:09:37 is the fastest bronze medal performance in OG history. Moreover, it's faster than all the silver medal performances save Gharib's. In other words, Kiprotich and Kirui ran the 3rd and 4th fastest times in OG history, and Kipsang ran the 6th (behind Lopes, 1984 -- and all of this by the way should encourage us to see just how extraordinary Lopes' run was that day).

Keflezighi's 4th place time was fast enough to medal in every OG marathon except 84, 88, & 08.

I realize that OG marathons are themselves different from each other, but they are much more alike in course difficulty, weather conditions, non-rabbits, etc. than other marathons. So, some rough comparisons as these among OG marathons are somewhat more meaningful than general comparisons with all marathons. Perhaps all this history and stats is bullshit, but we spend lots of our time on these boards discussing just such things, and on occasion lamenting the fact that the average fan -- whoever that might be -- doesn't "get" T&F in all its subtely and complexity, because they expect records every time out, etc.

This is just my foolish and delusional opinion, but I thought I saw a great OG marathon today.

[Conor Dary]

It wasn't a slam on the race today. Just an observation.

[ed gee]

I thought exactly the opposite.

I thought it was great that all of the splits were at mile points. Screw the metric system!

[JRM]

I like how all three Canadians finished within a minute of each other (i.e. between 2:15:26 and 2:16:29)!

[Conor Dary]

Watching the race again. At start, 70 degrees and 77% humidity on a sunny day. Which in Lewis Johnson's words are 'perfect conditions'. What an idiot.

[dj]

I thought it was great that all of the splits were at mile points. Screw the metric system!

They weren't. Splits were taken at every 5k as well. It's just that NBC chose to use mostly the mile splits.

[Conor Dary]

I thought it was great that all of the splits were at mile points. Screw the metric system!

They weren't. Splits were taken at every 5k as well. It's just that NBC chose to use mostly the mile splits.

That is not surprising, and expected. But also seeing splits in miles and big signs pointing them out was great.

[nevetsllim]

Not only Hall and Abdi dropped out but 18 others! What's behind that?

Don't know what's behind it, but I can tell you that 18 is pretty typical DNF # for a men's OG marathon. Here are the men's DNFs in recent OG marathons:
2008 - 19
2004 - 20
2000 - 19
1996 - 13
1992 - 23
1988 - 20
1984 - 29

women's OG marathon tends to have rather fewer DNFs. This OG, 11. Prior OG:
2008 - 12
2004 - 16
2000 - 8
1996 - 21
1992 - 9
1988 - 5
1984 - 6

The biggest disparity was probably the 2005 World Champs when a third of the men dropped out of the men's race while only a handful of women dropped out.

[kuha]

Pretty interesting race, for sure. I'm enormously impressed by Meb. He's certainly the second best US Olympic marathoner after Shorter. He had both guts and smarts today--really remarkable.

This "felt" like a 2:05 flat effort today. I never heard any temperature readings, but I presume the twisty course could account for maybe half of that 3 minute "gap."

[Conor Dary]

Pretty interesting race, for sure. I'm enormously impressed by Meb. He's certainly the second best US Olympic marathoner after Shorter. He had both guts and smarts today--really remarkable.

This "felt" like a 2:05 flat effort today. I never heard any temperature readings, but I presume the twisty course could account for maybe half of that 3 minute "gap."

Below↓ or is it above↑ ?

"Watching the race again. At start, 70 degrees and 77% humidity on a sunny day. Which in Lewis Johnson's words are 'perfect conditions'. What an idiot."

Masback had earlier pointed out, when he was with the runners while they were warming up, it was pretty warm in the sun.

The course was pretty squirrelly, but they did go out in 1:03:15.

[Alan Shank]

I thought it was great that all of the splits were at mile points. Screw the metric system!

I had two feeds available -- the NBC simulcast or the host-nation feed. The host-nation feed was not interrupted as often for commercials, and they were usually two, 15-second spots. They did not miss Kiprotich's move. They showed the 5K splits from the chips, with seconds behind. It's nice that we had a choice. I'm sure the commentary was much better on the host-nation feed, as well.

Cheers,
Alan Shank

[Conor Dary]

During the broadcast Tom Hammond said that Hall told him that, instead of a coach, he was advised by God on his running. Obviously the Big Guy today told him to forget Olympic glory and go for the big bucks in Chicago.

[Alan Shank]

Mr Shank!!
I ranted against the travesties of the REALLY slow races because, when you have several REALLY fast athletes in a race.....it's unforgivable to go out at a pace a high schooler could stay with!!
I'm not insisting on a WR or even OR, but come on......the times run (considering the QUALITY of the fields!!!!) in the women's 5K and 1500, and the men's 5K, 10K, and SC.....were a pathetic JOKE!!!

In the women's 5K, you had the two fastest runners of all time!!
In the 1500......even good (but not great!!) high schoolers would've been embarrassed to go out in 75!!
In the men's 5K, they ran the final 2K in under 5:00!! Ridiculous first 3K .....again because of the QUALITY of the field!!!
The 10K too....even though for us Americans it was somewhat redeemed by Rupp's Silver!!
The SC was atrocious too!!!
The time was so bad, I can't even remember what it was!! 8:21-something??

This marathon (and the women's) were affected by the heat and the winding course....so their "slowish" times were totally forgivable!!
And like I said, the guys WERE on OR pace through the half....but it was too hot and the course made me dizzy!!!

I'm sure the marathoners are really glad that you have forgiven them, and that the others are CRUSHED that you haven't.

BTW, the guy you mentioned being 37??
Meb is ALSO 37........and he did kinda okay too, eh??!!

Cheers,
AaronK

Meb did GREAT! Kudos to him, but I wish he would have had the guts to go with the leaders! (Not!!)
Meb ran a very smart race in Athens and also here. The winner also was very savvy. I wonder how Kipsang would have done if he hadn't run so hard between 10 and 15K. That's pretty early for a major move, and 14:12 is really hauling for a marathon. To his credit, he didn't crumble when they caught up to him, but he had nothing left when Kiprotich and Kirui ran away from him.

I'd be interested to see a graph of the temperature/humidity during the race. They started at 11, which, of course, is really 10 by the sun, so finished when the sun was overhead. That could partly explain the slower second half.

World and Olympic marathons tend to be slower than the big-city ones, because they are run in mid-summer and often during the heat of the day. Two big exceptions are Wanjiru and Kirui in Berlin and Daegu, but in those the times dropped off precipitously after the first one or two places. Kirui won by 2 1/2 minutes last year. He now has two golds and a silver in global championships.

[vencio2]

In THIS race....at least they TRIED to get the OR!!!!

But the heat and the twisting course stopped them!!

They'd hit halfway perfectly....at 1:03:15....so they lost the record in the second half!!!

They were really sweating.....DRIPPING it......so it must have been HOT!!!
If the course had been the London Marathon course.....the record would have gone....heat or no heat!!!

You are funny, lol.

Do you think any athlete cares, or even knows, what the olympic record is????

[CKuykendall]

With Keflezighi's 4th place finish, the 2012 U.S. men's team became the first U.S. Olympic men's team since 1964 to place somebody in the top eight in all the middle distance and distance events, 800 through marathon. Scored on an NCAA type 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system, the 2012 guys ended up at 46, versus 44 for the 1964 guys:

1964/ 800: Tom Farrell (5th); Jerry Siebert (6th). 1500: Dyrol Burleson (5th). Steeplechase: George Young (5th). 5000: Bob Schul (gold); Bill Dellinger (bronze). 10000: Billy Mills (gold). Marathon: Buddy Edelen (6th).

2012/ 800: Duane Solomon (4th); Nick Symmonds (5th). 1500: Leonel Manzano (silver); Matt Centrowitz (4th). Steeplechase: Evan Jager (6th); Donn Cabral (8th). 5000: Bernard Lagat (4th); Galen Rupp (7th). 10000: Galen Rupp (silver). Marathon: Meb Keflezighi (4th).

I tally the 1988-2008 U.S. men's teams to have scored 41 points total, in the middle distance and distance events, over six Olympics combined:

1988/ 800: Johnny Gray (5th). 1500: Steve Scott (5th). Steeplechase: Henry Marsh (6th). 5000: Sydney Maree (5th).
1992/ 800: Johnny Gray (bronze). 1500: Jim Spivey (8th). Steeplechase: Brian Diemer (7th).
1996/ 800: Johnny Gray (7th). Steeplechase: Mark Croghan (5th). 5000: Bob Kennedy (6th).
2000/ Nothing.
2004/ Marathon: Meb Keflezighi (silver).
2008/ Same as 2000.

Corrections welcome.

[aaronk]

In THIS race....at least they TRIED to get the OR!!!!

But the heat and the twisting course stopped them!!

They'd hit halfway perfectly....at 1:03:15....so they lost the record in the second half!!!

They were really sweating.....DRIPPING it......so it must have been HOT!!!
If the course had been the London Marathon course.....the record would have gone....heat or no heat!!!

You are funny, lol.

Do you think any athlete cares, or even knows, what the olympic record is????

Actually, yes!!!

In an interview with Reuters on August 9 (See News Headlines article from that date!!), from an article headlined "Kirui says marathon record could fall", Abel Kirui said the following:

"The Olympic record is what? Like 2:06? To beat 2:06 depends on the day, so if the conditions are very good and the guys can run from the start with a good pace, it's possible to run the Olympic record. It's possible depending on the weather on the day and how the race is being carried."

[EPelle]

Today's marathon was Stephen Kiprotich's fourth lifetime marathon.

[cullman]

We were getting really good commentary over the CTV feed. Triathlete Lisa Bentley was making a point about Stephen Kiprotich's lack of experience and how it could work in his favor. We missed his surge to the front because the cameras were switching and the other commentator was getting too chatty about SK dropping back a few second before.

She also kept up with the injuries, 5k splits (Kipsang apparently tossed in a 14:20 split to separate himself from the field) and the temperature which dropped down to 16ºC - 61ºF at one point before the mid point of the race.

Bentley is a lot of fun to listen to...I wouldn't mind having a few beers and talking track with her.

cman

[Master Po]

With Keflezighi's 4th place finish, the 2012 U.S. men's team became the first U.S. Olympic men's team since 1964 to place somebody in the top eight in all the middle distance and distance events, 800 through marathon. Scored on an NCAA type 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system, the 2012 guys ended up at 46, versus 44 for the 1964 guys:

1964/ 800: Tom Farrell (5th); Jerry Siebert (6th). 1500: Dyrol Burleson (5th). Steeplechase: George Young (5th). 5000: Bob Schul (gold); Bill Dellinger (bronze). 10000: Billy Mills (gold). Marathon: Buddy Edelen (6th).

2012/ 800: Duane Solomon (4th); Nick Symmonds (5th). 1500: Leonel Manzano (silver); Matt Centrowitz (4th). Steeplechase: Evan Jager (6th); Donn Cabral (8th). 5000: Bernard Lagat (4th); Galen Rupp (7th). 10000: Galen Rupp (silver). Marathon: Meb Keflezighi (4th).

I tally the 1988-2008 U.S. men's teams to have scored 41 points total, in the middle distance and distance events, over six Olympics combined:

1988/ 800: Johnny Gray (5th). 1500: Steve Scott (5th). Steeplechase: Henry Marsh (6th). 5000: Sydney Maree (5th).
1992/ 800: Johnny Gray (bronze). 1500: Jim Spivey (8th). Steeplechase: Brian Diemer (7th).
1996/ 800: Johnny Gray (7th). Steeplechase: Mark Croghan (5th). 5000: Bob Kennedy (6th).
2000/ Nothing.
2004/ Marathon: Meb Keflezighi (silver).
2008/ Same as 2000.

Corrections welcome.

Interesting stuff. Thanks for doing this.

[TN1965]

With Keflezighi's 4th place finish, the 2012 U.S. men's team became the first U.S. Olympic men's team since 1964 to place somebody in the top eight in all the middle distance and distance events, 800 through marathon. Scored on an NCAA type 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system, the 2012 guys ended up at 46, versus 44 for the 1964 guys:

1964/ 800: Tom Farrell (5th); Jerry Siebert (6th). 1500: Dyrol Burleson (5th). Steeplechase: George Young (5th). 5000: Bob Schul (gold); Bill Dellinger (bronze). 10000: Billy Mills (gold). Marathon: Buddy Edelen (6th).

2012/ 800: Duane Solomon (4th); Nick Symmonds (5th). 1500: Leonel Manzano (silver); Matt Centrowitz (4th). Steeplechase: Evan Jager (6th); Donn Cabral (8th). 5000: Bernard Lagat (4th); Galen Rupp (7th). 10000: Galen Rupp (silver). Marathon: Meb Keflezighi (4th).

How does this compare to Kenya and Ethiopia?

[TN1965]

Today's marathon was Stephen Kiprotich's fourth lifetime marathon.

This reminds me of what Noakes wrote in this Lore of Running: most Olympic marathons have been won by relatively inexperienced runners. Beijing was Wanjiru's 3rd, for example.

[bitrot]

Not only Hall and Abdi dropped out but 18 others! What's behind that?

The lucrative fall Marathons beckon.$$$$$$$[color=#40BFFF][/color]

[posty333]

Today's marathon was Stephen Kiprotich's fourth lifetime marathon.

This reminds me of what Noakes wrote in this Lore of Running: most Olympic marathons have been won by relatively inexperienced runners. Beijing was Wanjiru's 3rd, for example.

One of the announcers on the nbcolympics.com feed (can't recall if it was Matthews or Storey), said something similar. One of them also kept saying that Meb was the champion in Athens, when he was actually the silver medalist.

[doug5321]

2 things

1. will kiprotich's victory motivate many in uganda to train to try to emulate him, uganda probably has a ton of undiscovered distance talent, and they have a few standout in the past, the womens steepler dorcus, b. kiprop 26:39 for 10000 and m. kipsiro is still around, they have never had depth, but they also have not had a marathon gold medalist before (john aki bua did win the 400 hurdles gold) to motivate them.

2. the other thing is, i did not like that the finish was not in the stadium.

[Bruce Kritzler]

I believe USATF should hire Meb as it's official marathon coach for the future.
Well done MEB!!!!!

Bob Larsen is Meb's coach.

[aaronk]

This comment could as easily fit on the women's marathon thread or any of the walk threads, so I'll put it here.

One thing that has NOT been commented on, but deserves mention, is the BEAUTY of the courses used in the road events.
Has nothing or little to do with athletics, but what magnificent sights these athletes were treated to along the course!!
I've never been to London (or anywhere outside North America!!), so it was a special delight for me to see the wonderful historical sights provided along the course(s).
As a former marathoner myself, I realize the runner doesn't pay much attention to the scenery, but for the TV viewer (or those lucky enough to have been there!!), it was beautiful!!

That said.....the TOUGHNESS of the windy twisty course(s) was a whole other story!!!

P.S. I felt the same way about the marathon course in Paris during the last WC there!!

[mump boy]

Which is exactly why it didn't end in the stadium which would have required a 7 mile run down Commercial or Mile End rd which wouldn't have been so easy on the eye as finishing outside Buckingham Palace

[doug abeles]

I don't want to blame Hall's marathon DNF on his decision to coach himself based on Divine Inspiration, but when it comes to coaching distance runners, God may be good, but he's no Alberto Salazar.

[mal]

I don't want to blame Hall's marathon DNF on his decision to coach himself based on Divine Inspiration, but when it comes to coaching distance runners, God may be good, but he's no Alberto Salazar.

Apart from getting Moses ready for 40 days and 40 nights in the desert, I don't think HE has any experience in the distance events.

[TN1965]

I believe USATF should hire Meb as it's official marathon coach for the future.
Well done MEB!!!!!

Bob Larsen is Meb's coach.

1. Should anyone leave their current coach for Larsen?

2. Should anyone ditch their current shoes for Skechers?

3. Should anyone ditch their current sports drink for Generation Ucan?

[26mi235]

My opinion about anyone who thinks and injured runner should finish the marathon is that they do not know what they are talking about and do not have any care for the athlete. This is not a venue where earning you toughness stripes is a key factor.

You can only do a few marathons in a given period and if you are looking at going well down the list in the Olympic Marathon compared to what you expected, dropping before you completely burn that match can be a wise thing to do. Who cares what some anonymous internet posters write.