The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.


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The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby fasttrack85 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:45 am

So amidst all the celebrations and wowing performances I began to wonder what happened to all these Russian heavy hitters who did so well at Russian Champs. I was so sure Krivoshapka was going to be a nail in Sanya's side but she didn't even factor. How can someone run 49.43 and 49.16 weeks before leading up to the games and fall so short of that. Guschina, who did a 49.28 at trials supposedly, is such a letdown artist that it is almost laughable if it wasn't so sad. The 200 girl Fedirova also did a 22.18 at trials and couldn't even make the finals. What say you guys? Are the Russians playing us for fools? Is it that they don't know how to peak or is it that they are fabricating the times on the clock to make themselves look good? I have noticed that at champs their meets seem to have almost no one there and never any decent footage that shows the video from start to finish without strange breaks in angles. Someone help me please get to the bottom of this Bolshov bullshit.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby fasttrack85 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:53 am

Having said all this I am still a huge fan of Krivoshapka and I don't know why.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby pakillo » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:44 am

So sweet, you are actually talking only about Russian 400m runners and Fedoriva and making wider conclusions. Gushchina has already proved herself(400 final Beijing, 200m final Helsinki...) and I can put it like this- where were American men in 400? What happened with Young and Mitchell in 200(not even close to final), where are American field events women in London?
And Eaton- hometown boy breaking world record- how wonderful.


having said this I still have some doubts in Pechonkina's 400H WR but not as a timing issue, more in a way she cleared the hurdles ( I don't know I haven't seen that race).
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby fasttrack85 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:57 am

pakillo wrote:So sweet, you are actually talking only about Russian 400m runners and Fedoriva and making wider conclusions. Gushchina has already proved herself(400 final Beijing, 200m final Helsinki...) and I can put it like this- where were American men in 400? What happened with Young and Mitchell in 200(not even close to final), where are American field events women in London?
And Eaton- hometown boy breaking world record- how wonderful.


having said this I still have some doubts in Pechonkina's 400H WR but not as a timing issue, more in a way she cleared the hurdles ( I don't know I haven't seen that race).



Please don't think I am trying to berate and put down Russians on purpose. As a track and field fan I want to know how much I can respect those Russian times. I said in my earlier post I really like Krivoshapka and was hoping she would give Sanya a bit of a threat as in run low 49 and force Sanya sub 49. I am just reflecting on it now and feel robbed of the type of performance I had expected. I also ask because this is not the first time I have seen big numbers come out of Russian Champs and not show up outside of Russia. I want to know what others theory are on it. Did they peak early? Are they only adapted to running in local altitude/atmospheric conditions? Is the timing fabricated to make Russia look good? I really want to know if someone feels they want to chime in.

As for the American runners you spoke of they are college students who have had a very long season so that is actually a normal occurence. I am sure the Olympics were an after thought and neither of them were even the best the NCAA had to offer in their event. The Russians I referred to are well established pros and are training simply for the Olympics I assume. However it would seem to some that they are training more for Russian Champs than anything else.

On the other hand Anytyuk didn't dissapoint. I expected that type of a performance from Guschina and Krivoshapka in the 400. What is your personal take on this situation?
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby Powell » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:35 am

fasttrack85 wrote:On the other hand Anytyuk didn't dissapoint. I expected that type of a performance from Guschina and Krivoshapka in the 400. What is your personal take on this situation?


Same thing as with the US athletes. Because they have to peak for the nationals to make the team, they often have nothing left for the majors.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby gh » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:35 am

zackly..... and in Krivoshapka's case, she may have been her own worse enemy by simply going out too strongly.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby az2004 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:49 am

wait for moscow 2013, some how their home cooking will help their women

their men are helpless

w4X4 in moscow, i cant wait for the usa dq
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby pakillo » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:55 am

Simply it's not typical of Russians. It's individual and universal. One or even five fast races doesn't mean the next race will be fast.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby ATK » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:29 am

az2004 wrote:wait for moscow 2013, some how their home cooking will help their women

Yup
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby t_monk » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:42 am

Russia was ONE gold medal away from toppling US as being atop the medal table table in terms of medal quality.... US 9 gold in comparison with Russia's 8 (this is prior to the 4x100 en btw). A change in fortunes for the 4x400, Long Jump and/or the 400 would have seen Russia passing them.

I think a pot is bubbling and it will be ready come Moscow....
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby Spickard » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:57 am

Five medals for Russia today. They got a good kick!
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby j-a-m » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:27 pm

Spickard wrote:Five medals for Russia today. They got a good kick!

Not only in t&f; half way through the Games they had fewer gold medals than Kasachstan; that has changed completely.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby bekayne » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:33 pm

Spickard wrote:Five medals for Russia today. They got a good kick!


7 actually
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby fasttrack85 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:47 pm

Powell wrote:
fasttrack85 wrote:On the other hand Anytyuk didn't dissapoint. I expected that type of a performance from Guschina and Krivoshapka in the 400. What is your personal take on this situation?


Same thing as with the US athletes. Because they have to peak for the nationals to make the team, they often have nothing left for the majors.



It is not really that much different, maybe even worse to make some of the events in Jamaica and USA trials. Can you imagine people thought Allyson Felix went into US trials in danger of not making the team? The Jamaican 100 men trials are so deep that a 9.76 guy didn't even make the team. There are numerous other examples. All the class athletes(in my examples) came to London with their A game and didn't show huge regression in form regardless of how hard their trials were. I found some of the Russians were remarkedly off of the form they showed at their trials. A good coach should know how to peak an athlete for national trials and then international competition. Also it is not as if many of these Russians were heavy racers on the circuit.

On another note I think Antonina Krivoshapka is very talented but could do with some sensible coaching. A girl who runs 49.16 and 49.43 in the same year should at least medal at Olympics if the winner didn't even run those times to claim gold. Guschina on the other hand I have no words for her performance. She is so lucky she is not under the totalitarian governments of old or her and her family would be mining salt for the rest of their lives.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby jamal00005 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:58 am

fasttrack85 wrote:
Powell wrote:
fasttrack85 wrote:On the other hand Anytyuk didn't dissapoint. I expected that type of a performance from Guschina and Krivoshapka in the 400. What is your personal take on this situation?


Same thing as with the US athletes. Because they have to peak for the nationals to make the team, they often have nothing left for the majors.



It is not really that much different, maybe even worse to make some of the events in Jamaica and USA trials. Can you imagine people thought Allyson Felix went into US trials in danger of not making the team? The Jamaican 100 men trials are so deep that a 9.76 guy didn't even make the team. There are numerous other examples. All the class athletes(in my examples) came to London with their A game and didn't show huge regression in form regardless of how hard their trials were. I found some of the Russians were remarkedly off of the form they showed at their trials. A good coach should know how to peak an athlete for national trials and then international competition. Also it is not as if many of these Russians were heavy racers on the circuit.

On another note I think Antonina Krivoshapka is very talented but could do with some sensible coaching. A girl who runs 49.16 and 49.43 in the same year should at least medal at Olympics if the winner didn't even run those times to claim gold. Guschina on the other hand I have no words for her performance. She is so lucky she is not under the totalitarian governments of old or her and her family would be mining salt for the rest of their lives.


Guschina is such a mess stupse but i really want someone to work on Krivoshapka
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby Powell » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:41 am

So... Krivoshapka's failure to win a medal aside, is anyone still going to maintain the title of this thread is true? The Russians took 18 medals in London, including 8 golds.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby EPelle » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:32 am

Yet they went 1 for 15 in the women sprint race/relay medal chase. The poster's initial query (which appears to be in relation to the w-400m) was: what happened to all these Russian heavy hitters who did so well at Russian Champs. Whilst it is undeniable that the Russians performed quite well in London, their 400m sprinters, who had achieved fast times in Russia, didn't. I expect next year, in Moscow (at home and with national pride on the line), they will. All these Russians appears to be hyperbole, as there could only have been three contending for the women's 400m title; three available to run fast times. Those medal contenders were fast on times, but short on medals.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby Powell » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:01 am

EPelle wrote:Yet they went 1 for 15 in the women sprint race/relay medal chase. The poster's initial query (which appears to be in relation to the w-400m) was: what happened to all these Russian heavy hitters who did so well at Russian Champs. Whilst it is undeniable that the Russians performed quite well in London, their 400m sprinters, who had achieved fast times in Russia, didn't.


1 of 15 isn't really a fair assessment (where did the number 15 come from anyway? there weren't that many Russian women competing) Apart from the 4x400 relay, which won silver as expected, the two 400 runners were the only ones with remotely reasonable medal chances.
Also, if we're talking all sprint events, why ignore Antyukh? She certainly didn't disappoint.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby EPelle » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:57 am

Powell, Antyukh isn't being ignored. She did superbly. However, as the original poster queried, what happened to the heavy hitters? In context, those were the aforementioned 400m runners. A hyperbole alert should have resounded loudly and clearly when s/he asked: what happened to all these Russian heavy hitters who did so well at Russian Champs.

The women 400m sprinters were NOT on par with their national championship times for many of the reasons attributed throughout this thread -- including your own (peaking). The Russian team competed well. There's no knock on the 18 medals. I think you're missing the original poster's main point in attempting to compare the 18-medal (8 gold) performance with the women's 400m "heavy hitters" who were fast on times entering London, but short on medals (nill).
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby Powell » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:05 am

OK, so maybe I should have put that question in another thread. This one was mostly about female sprinters, but I recall the thread on the Russian nationals where a lot of people predicted the Russians were going to underperform massively in London compared to their results in domestic competition. As it happened, of course there were some disappointments, but if anything, the team as a whole overperformed compared to expectations.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby eldanielfire » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:27 am

I suspose the question is why are Russian female sprinters such poor championship performers?

Looking a a few 400m's where they have ridiculous depth you can say tactically they are inept and need some seriously improved coaching or work on their mentality or have stamina issues. I felt this even goes back to when Natalya Antyukh was running it where 2004 aside she seemed to continuely fade in the straight or mistime the final surge badly.

Perhaps they should be spoken to by Mariya Savinova who while an 800m runner is the definition of somebody who excuses tactics perfectly and with the right mentality in championships.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby GDAWG » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:48 am

At least the Russians don't have the delusions that the Chinese do of dominating every Olympic sport. Russia knows that they cannot compete with the Americans or Caribbeans in the shorter sprints or with the Kenyans and Ethiopians beyond 1500 meters, so they focus on dominance somewhere else in the sport.

Having said that though, I'd expect Russia to finish second in Moscow next year, unless the Americans, Caribbeans and the Aussie (Sally Pearson) completely collapse in the shorter sprints and shorter hurdles, which is very unlikely.

And of course, Bolt is going to be the most popular Non-Russian athlete in Moscow next year.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby fasttrack85 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:29 am

Anyone think Antonina is going to be trouble for Sanya this year? We know she has the speed in her legs she just has to learn to race and execute tactically. Matter of fact her achilles heel is similar to Sanya's in that she has too much speed(maybe not as much as Sanya) but doesn't know how to use it. Besides Sanya she is my fave 400 meter runner( I don't consider Allyson Felix a 400 meter runner really). With Antonina's crazy running style she can throw alot of peope of their pace making the race very exciting. I beleive she almost cost Sanya her gold in London by her trying to keep pace from 120-200 then backing off when she realized she had sped up too fast. Im routing hard for this girl I hope she at least gets a silver medal so they won't throw her into a Siberian prison.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby fasttrack85 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:41 am

Any news on the hot steppers behind the iron curtain? This is Krivo's year for gold. For me if she doesn't get it here she never will. Sanya is the only one who can handle a race run at the tempo Krivo runs her first 300 in and she wont be there. I think Antonina needs an inside lane preferably not the 2 outermost lanes and might want to key off of someone like Montsho/Mcrory to decide whether she is doing too much too soon. I really want to see her win for my enjoyment and her safety. I am afraid if she loses they will send her to a SIberian prison camp where she will have to bathe with freezing Volga water.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby Marlow » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:47 am

fasttrack85 wrote: Sanya is the only one who can handle a race run at the tempo Krivo runs her first 300 in and she wont be there.

No, but Montsho will be and the first 300 meters are irrelevant; only the last one is.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby fasttrack85 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:54 am

Marlow wrote:
fasttrack85 wrote: Sanya is the only one who can handle a race run at the tempo Krivo runs her first 300 in and she wont be there.

No, but Montsho will be and the first 300 meters are irrelevant; only the last one is.



The problem is that Sanya's footspeed and speed reserve are the only Kriptonite if Krivoshapka takes it out hard and gets it right as she has done numerous times on Russian Soil which is where worlds will be. I dont see Montsho able to come back at Krivoshapka if she is ready to run 49 low she may also mess up alot of peoples game plans if they try to go out with her. It is very clear Krivoshapka is way more naturally talented than Montsho howeve Monstho is more experienced and sometimes experience trumps talent especially in a race that is as tactical as the 400. The silence of the Russians is starting to spook me. What are they brewing up over there?
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby jamal00005 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:10 am

fasttrack85 wrote:
Marlow wrote:
fasttrack85 wrote: Sanya is the only one who can handle a race run at the tempo Krivo runs her first 300 in and she wont be there.

No, but Montsho will be and the first 300 meters are irrelevant; only the last one is.



The problem is that Sanya's footspeed and speed reserve are the only Kriptonite if Krivoshapka takes it out hard and gets it right as she has done numerous times on Russian Soil which is where worlds will be. I dont see Montsho able to come back at Krivoshapka if she is ready to run 49 low she may also mess up alot of peoples game plans if they try to go out with her. It is very clear Krivoshapka is way more naturally talented than Montsho howeve Monstho is more experienced and sometimes experience trumps talent especially in a race that is as tactical as the 400. The silence of the Russians is starting to spook me. What are they brewing up over there?


Its spooking me as well....it seems that they are very quiet.I would love to think that they are building a storm over they and will explode come August. I am rooting for Krivoshapka as well My goodness if this girl doesn't finally deliver Gold i dont know what i will do. She needs to drop a low 49 to do it though and with the Champs being in Russia where she usually runs her best :D Id expect her to do it!!!!C'mon Krivoshapka
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby fasttrack85 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:19 am

jamal00005 wrote:
fasttrack85 wrote:
Marlow wrote:
fasttrack85 wrote: Sanya is the only one who can handle a race run at the tempo Krivo runs her first 300 in and she wont be there.

No, but Montsho will be and the first 300 meters are irrelevant; only the last one is.



The problem is that Sanya's footspeed and speed reserve are the only Kriptonite if Krivoshapka takes it out hard and gets it right as she has done numerous times on Russian Soil which is where worlds will be. I dont see Montsho able to come back at Krivoshapka if she is ready to run 49 low she may also mess up alot of peoples game plans if they try to go out with her. It is very clear Krivoshapka is way more naturally talented than Montsho howeve Monstho is more experienced and sometimes experience trumps talent especially in a race that is as tactical as the 400. The silence of the Russians is starting to spook me. What are they brewing up over there?


Its spooking me as well....it seems that they are very quiet.I would love to think that they are building a storm over they and will explode come August. I am rooting for Krivoshapka as well My goodness if this girl doesn't finally deliver Gold i dont know what i will do. She needs to drop a low 49 to do it though and with the Champs being in Russia where she usually runs her best :D Id expect her to do it!!!!C'mon Krivoshapka


:D Yes Jamal me and you will always be bonded over our love for Krivo i am rooting for her even over all the Jamaicans and Americans(many of who I love dearly). I just hate when the person with the most potential doesnt get the medal kinda like what happened to Sanya in 05,07,08. Variety is the spice of life and it is good to know that for every 3 TBO's you have one Krivoshapka.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby Marlow » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:33 am

Well the Russkis have their chance. We complain that they can only run well in Russia and voila! the World Championships are in Russia. I hope she DOES run 49-low, win or lose.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby fasttrack85 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:43 am

Marlow wrote:Well the Russkis have their chance. We complain that they can only run well in Russia and voila! the World Championships are in Russia. I hope she DOES run 49-low, win or lose.



If she runs 49 low she def aint losin not if Sanya is not there.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby eldanielfire » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:52 am

fasttrack85 wrote:
Marlow wrote:
fasttrack85 wrote: Sanya is the only one who can handle a race run at the tempo Krivo runs her first 300 in and she wont be there.

No, but Montsho will be and the first 300 meters are irrelevant; only the last one is.



The problem is that Sanya's footspeed and speed reserve are the only Kriptonite if Krivoshapka takes it out hard and gets it right as she has done numerous times on Russian Soil which is where worlds will be. I dont see Montsho able to come back at Krivoshapka if she is ready to run 49 low she may also mess up alot of peoples game plans if they try to go out with her. It is very clear Krivoshapka is way more naturally talented than Montsho howeve Monstho is more experienced and sometimes experience trumps talent especially in a race that is as tactical as the 400. The silence of the Russians is starting to spook me. What are they brewing up over there?


Volga water in Siberia? Must be bottling the stuff.

I think the problem with Krivoshapka is nerves, when you see her at the start of a race she looks intense, almost shaking and is crossing herself at super speed like she is in front of a vampire women.

The Russians are starting to wake up now, Firova was at the European team champs and ran a great leg to get a weak Russian team in 2nd from way back.

Marlow wrote:Well the Russkis have their chance. We complain that they can only run well in Russia and voila! the World Championships are in Russia. I hope she DOES run 49-low, win or lose.



They also run well in heats and semi-finals too. It's just never championship finals. However agree with all this year the 400m is open.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby Gabriella » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:00 pm

Apparently Vdovina ran 49.80 today in Cheboksary. That's a big PB for her. This is quite a surprise for me. I'm not a fan of here as her relay legs have all been awful.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:18 pm

Marlow wrote:Well the Russkis have their chance. We complain that they can only run well in Russia and voila! the World Championships are in Russia. I hope she DOES run 49-low, win or lose.


But the question is: is the driving factor that it is in Russia or that it is a domestic meet. If the latter, it does not imply great performances by those that have mainly shined only in domestic settings. Part of the reason for the distinction is that the crowd at the top is much bigger and that it makes it harder to produce good marks and win.

Of course, it is not as simple as all that, there are a number of seasoned and successful athletes on the world stage, perhaps best highlighted by Savinova, but the whole walks contingent has been strong most times and I do not mean to exclude those not explicitly mentioned.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby iain » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:38 pm

Gabriella wrote:Apparently Vdovina ran 49.80 today in Cheboksary. That's a big PB for her. This is quite a surprise for me. I'm not a fan of here as her relay legs have all been awful.


She'll be running anchor then ;P
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby fasttrack85 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:04 pm

Gabriella wrote:Apparently Vdovina ran 49.80 today in Cheboksary. That's a big PB for her. This is quite a surprise for me. I'm not a fan of here as her relay legs have all been awful.




aaaah good ole Cheboksary its like the Eugene of far East Europe.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby Flumpy » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:16 pm

The Euro Team Champs are there in 2016.

On the one hand I'm tempted to go just for the experience but on the other hand it's 400 miles past Moscow in the middle of nowhere.

Travel would be a nightmare.

Might be worth it just for the lols and to actually witness some of those ridiculous performances in person.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby jamal00005 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:25 pm

fasttrack85 wrote:
Gabriella wrote:Apparently Vdovina ran 49.80 today in Cheboksary. That's a big PB for her. This is quite a surprise for me. I'm not a fan of here as her relay legs have all been awful.




aaaah good ole Cheboksary its like the Eugene of far East Europe.

LMFAO!!!!
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby fasttrack85 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:19 am

Gabriella wrote:Apparently Vdovina ran 49.80 today in Cheboksary. That's a big PB for her. This is quite a surprise for me. I'm not a fan of here as her relay legs have all been awful.



Can you provide a source for this? I cant find any info on it which is weird since it would be the new world leading time.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby eldanielfire » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:29 am

fasttrack85 wrote:
Gabriella wrote:Apparently Vdovina ran 49.80 today in Cheboksary. That's a big PB for her. This is quite a surprise for me. I'm not a fan of here as her relay legs have all been awful.



Can you provide a source for this? I cant find any info on it which is weird since it would be the new world leading time.


http://gorod48.ru/news/167950/

The translation:

Having started in Cheboksary Russian championship in athletics among young people has brought some unexpected results.

Out of competition in these competitions has decided to make 26-year-old runner Kseniya Vdovina Lipetsk, which took the surname after marriage Ryzhov. Result athletes in the preliminary race at 400 meters struck the imagination - 49.80. This is not just a personal record Xenia, but also the best season in the world for women.

For comparison, which had the best figure of the year in Russia Kseniya Zadorina ran one lap around the stadium "only" 50.56 seconds. That is Ryzhov ahead of her almost a second!

However, in the final of our athlete has not passed - have made it only to the pre-start.

The competition continues.


It sounds genuine, after all a Russian women's 400m runner running a obscene time before a final and likely burning herself out sounds realistic. I expect her to run 51.2s or something in the final.
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Re: The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

Postby fasttrack85 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:15 am

49.80 in the prelims? I see the Krivoshapka method is alive and well throughout all of Russia.
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