The Russians: Fast on times short on medals.

[fasttrack85]

So amidst all the celebrations and wowing performances I began to wonder what happened to all these Russian heavy hitters who did so well at Russian Champs. I was so sure Krivoshapka was going to be a nail in Sanya's side but she didn't even factor. How can someone run 49.43 and 49.16 weeks before leading up to the games and fall so short of that. Guschina, who did a 49.28 at trials supposedly, is such a letdown artist that it is almost laughable if it wasn't so sad. The 200 girl Fedirova also did a 22.18 at trials and couldn't even make the finals. What say you guys? Are the Russians playing us for fools? Is it that they don't know how to peak or is it that they are fabricating the times on the clock to make themselves look good? I have noticed that at champs their meets seem to have almost no one there and never any decent footage that shows the video from start to finish without strange breaks in angles. Someone help me please get to the bottom of this Bolshov bullshit.

[fasttrack85]

Having said all this I am still a huge fan of Krivoshapka and I don't know why.

[pakillo]

So sweet, you are actually talking only about Russian 400m runners and Fedoriva and making wider conclusions. Gushchina has already proved herself(400 final Beijing, 200m final Helsinki...) and I can put it like this- where were American men in 400? What happened with Young and Mitchell in 200(not even close to final), where are American field events women in London?
And Eaton- hometown boy breaking world record- how wonderful.


having said this I still have some doubts in Pechonkina's 400H WR but not as a timing issue, more in a way she cleared the hurdles ( I don't know I haven't seen that race).

[fasttrack85]

So sweet, you are actually talking only about Russian 400m runners and Fedoriva and making wider conclusions. Gushchina has already proved herself(400 final Beijing, 200m final Helsinki...) and I can put it like this- where were American men in 400? What happened with Young and Mitchell in 200(not even close to final), where are American field events women in London?
And Eaton- hometown boy breaking world record- how wonderful.


having said this I still have some doubts in Pechonkina's 400H WR but not as a timing issue, more in a way she cleared the hurdles ( I don't know I haven't seen that race).

Please don't think I am trying to berate and put down Russians on purpose. As a track and field fan I want to know how much I can respect those Russian times. I said in my earlier post I really like Krivoshapka and was hoping she would give Sanya a bit of a threat as in run low 49 and force Sanya sub 49. I am just reflecting on it now and feel robbed of the type of performance I had expected. I also ask because this is not the first time I have seen big numbers come out of Russian Champs and not show up outside of Russia. I want to know what others theory are on it. Did they peak early? Are they only adapted to running in local altitude/atmospheric conditions? Is the timing fabricated to make Russia look good? I really want to know if someone feels they want to chime in.

As for the American runners you spoke of they are college students who have had a very long season so that is actually a normal occurence. I am sure the Olympics were an after thought and neither of them were even the best the NCAA had to offer in their event. The Russians I referred to are well established pros and are training simply for the Olympics I assume. However it would seem to some that they are training more for Russian Champs than anything else.

On the other hand Anytyuk didn't dissapoint. I expected that type of a performance from Guschina and Krivoshapka in the 400. What is your personal take on this situation?

[Powell]

On the other hand Anytyuk didn't dissapoint. I expected that type of a performance from Guschina and Krivoshapka in the 400. What is your personal take on this situation?

Same thing as with the US athletes. Because they have to peak for the nationals to make the team, they often have nothing left for the majors.

[gh]

zackly..... and in Krivoshapka's case, she may have been her own worse enemy by simply going out too strongly.

[az2004]

wait for moscow 2013, some how their home cooking will help their women

their men are helpless

w4X4 in moscow, i cant wait for the usa dq

[pakillo]

Simply it's not typical of Russians. It's individual and universal. One or even five fast races doesn't mean the next race will be fast.

[ATK]

wait for moscow 2013, some how their home cooking will help their women

Yup

[t_monk]

Russia was ONE gold medal away from toppling US as being atop the medal table table in terms of medal quality.... US 9 gold in comparison with Russia's 8 (this is prior to the 4x100 en btw). A change in fortunes for the 4x400, Long Jump and/or the 400 would have seen Russia passing them.

I think a pot is bubbling and it will be ready come Moscow....

[Spickard]

Five medals for Russia today. They got a good kick!

[j-a-m]

Five medals for Russia today. They got a good kick!

Not only in t&f; half way through the Games they had fewer gold medals than Kasachstan; that has changed completely.

[bekayne]

Five medals for Russia today. They got a good kick!

7 actually

[fasttrack85]

On the other hand Anytyuk didn't dissapoint. I expected that type of a performance from Guschina and Krivoshapka in the 400. What is your personal take on this situation?

Same thing as with the US athletes. Because they have to peak for the nationals to make the team, they often have nothing left for the majors.

It is not really that much different, maybe even worse to make some of the events in Jamaica and USA trials. Can you imagine people thought Allyson Felix went into US trials in danger of not making the team? The Jamaican 100 men trials are so deep that a 9.76 guy didn't even make the team. There are numerous other examples. All the class athletes(in my examples) came to London with their A game and didn't show huge regression in form regardless of how hard their trials were. I found some of the Russians were remarkedly off of the form they showed at their trials. A good coach should know how to peak an athlete for national trials and then international competition. Also it is not as if many of these Russians were heavy racers on the circuit.

On another note I think Antonina Krivoshapka is very talented but could do with some sensible coaching. A girl who runs 49.16 and 49.43 in the same year should at least medal at Olympics if the winner didn't even run those times to claim gold. Guschina on the other hand I have no words for her performance. She is so lucky she is not under the totalitarian governments of old or her and her family would be mining salt for the rest of their lives.

[jamal00005]

On the other hand Anytyuk didn't dissapoint. I expected that type of a performance from Guschina and Krivoshapka in the 400. What is your personal take on this situation?

Same thing as with the US athletes. Because they have to peak for the nationals to make the team, they often have nothing left for the majors.

It is not really that much different, maybe even worse to make some of the events in Jamaica and USA trials. Can you imagine people thought Allyson Felix went into US trials in danger of not making the team? The Jamaican 100 men trials are so deep that a 9.76 guy didn't even make the team. There are numerous other examples. All the class athletes(in my examples) came to London with their A game and didn't show huge regression in form regardless of how hard their trials were. I found some of the Russians were remarkedly off of the form they showed at their trials. A good coach should know how to peak an athlete for national trials and then international competition. Also it is not as if many of these Russians were heavy racers on the circuit.

On another note I think Antonina Krivoshapka is very talented but could do with some sensible coaching. A girl who runs 49.16 and 49.43 in the same year should at least medal at Olympics if the winner didn't even run those times to claim gold. Guschina on the other hand I have no words for her performance. She is so lucky she is not under the totalitarian governments of old or her and her family would be mining salt for the rest of their lives.

Guschina is such a mess stupse but i really want someone to work on Krivoshapka

[Powell]

So... Krivoshapka's failure to win a medal aside, is anyone still going to maintain the title of this thread is true? The Russians took 18 medals in London, including 8 golds.

[EPelle]

Yet they went 1 for 15 in the women sprint race/relay medal chase. The poster's initial query (which appears to be in relation to the w-400m) was: what happened to all these Russian heavy hitters who did so well at Russian Champs. Whilst it is undeniable that the Russians performed quite well in London, their 400m sprinters, who had achieved fast times in Russia, didn't. I expect next year, in Moscow (at home and with national pride on the line), they will. All these Russians appears to be hyperbole, as there could only have been three contending for the women's 400m title; three available to run fast times. Those medal contenders were fast on times, but short on medals.

[Powell]

Yet they went 1 for 15 in the women sprint race/relay medal chase. The poster's initial query (which appears to be in relation to the w-400m) was: what happened to all these Russian heavy hitters who did so well at Russian Champs. Whilst it is undeniable that the Russians performed quite well in London, their 400m sprinters, who had achieved fast times in Russia, didn't.

1 of 15 isn't really a fair assessment (where did the number 15 come from anyway? there weren't that many Russian women competing) Apart from the 4x400 relay, which won silver as expected, the two 400 runners were the only ones with remotely reasonable medal chances.
Also, if we're talking all sprint events, why ignore Antyukh? She certainly didn't disappoint.

[EPelle]

Powell, Antyukh isn't being ignored. She did superbly. However, as the original poster queried, what happened to the heavy hitters? In context, those were the aforementioned 400m runners. A hyperbole alert should have resounded loudly and clearly when s/he asked: what happened to all these Russian heavy hitters who did so well at Russian Champs.

The women 400m sprinters were NOT on par with their national championship times for many of the reasons attributed throughout this thread -- including your own (peaking). The Russian team competed well. There's no knock on the 18 medals. I think you're missing the original poster's main point in attempting to compare the 18-medal (8 gold) performance with the women's 400m "heavy hitters" who were fast on times entering London, but short on medals (nill).

[Powell]

OK, so maybe I should have put that question in another thread. This one was mostly about female sprinters, but I recall the thread on the Russian nationals where a lot of people predicted the Russians were going to underperform massively in London compared to their results in domestic competition. As it happened, of course there were some disappointments, but if anything, the team as a whole overperformed compared to expectations.

[eldanielfire]

I suspose the question is why are Russian female sprinters such poor championship performers?

Looking a a few 400m's where they have ridiculous depth you can say tactically they are inept and need some seriously improved coaching or work on their mentality or have stamina issues. I felt this even goes back to when Natalya Antyukh was running it where 2004 aside she seemed to continuely fade in the straight or mistime the final surge badly.

Perhaps they should be spoken to by Mariya Savinova who while an 800m runner is the definition of somebody who excuses tactics perfectly and with the right mentality in championships.

[GDAWG]

At least the Russians don't have the delusions that the Chinese do of dominating every Olympic sport. Russia knows that they cannot compete with the Americans or Caribbeans in the shorter sprints or with the Kenyans and Ethiopians beyond 1500 meters, so they focus on dominance somewhere else in the sport.

Having said that though, I'd expect Russia to finish second in Moscow next year, unless the Americans, Caribbeans and the Aussie (Sally Pearson) completely collapse in the shorter sprints and shorter hurdles, which is very unlikely.

And of course, Bolt is going to be the most popular Non-Russian athlete in Moscow next year.

[fasttrack85]

Anyone think Antonina is going to be trouble for Sanya this year? We know she has the speed in her legs she just has to learn to race and execute tactically. Matter of fact her achilles heel is similar to Sanya's in that she has too much speed(maybe not as much as Sanya) but doesn't know how to use it. Besides Sanya she is my fave 400 meter runner( I don't consider Allyson Felix a 400 meter runner really). With Antonina's crazy running style she can throw alot of peope of their pace making the race very exciting. I beleive she almost cost Sanya her gold in London by her trying to keep pace from 120-200 then backing off when she realized she had sped up too fast. Im routing hard for this girl I hope she at least gets a silver medal so they won't throw her into a Siberian prison.