¶2012 OG: w800–Mariya Savinova (Russia) 1:56.19 WL

[sprintzfan]

Yes, but Montano didn't need to run 55.55 to control the race; she just doesn't get the whole concept of oxygen debt/lactic acid. Even slowing way down the last 200, you can't get that energy back; like time, it's gone!

That's what I thought I had learned about track. Just what you said Alan.

[Master Po]

Alan -- I agree w you. Hope it was clear that I was not arguing for time-based qualifying, or suggesting that it's all the same in terms of strategy. Perhaps didn't state my point clearly. I felt like I had read a comment somewhere in here that suggested time-based qualifying as being more fair -- and I might have misread that. I was just pointing out, without advocating such changes, that any qualification procedure would require some sort of strategy for the competitors, and there would somewhere be advantages/disadvantages in any case. But I'm OK with the system as it is.

Also, I agree w you re Montano -- didn't mean to suggest that it was a great idea to split 55.x in the opening round. Just noting it as one (extreme) approach to taking control of a qualifying heat. Pretty sure it will linger more than that 2:08 the Russian led her group to!

[EPelle]

You're looking at that 55,55 as a whole lap time. There's a possibility -- no matter how marginal -- that her first lap was run in co-ordinated segments with variable structures to them. Calling her an idiot without knowing her specific race strategy (the objective was to qualify) doesn't make her the loosely screwed one.

[dj]

Well okay. It will be interesting to see in the semis what Montano has left in the tank. She really flew that first 400 or 600. It looked highly exhausting to me.

Montano's doing exactly what she did in the US Trials. I thought it was silly myself, but it worked, and with no loss of quality as the rounds progressed as she went 2:02.61, 2:00.25 and 1:59.08 in succession.

I think it gets her through the semis, but what then? People could be on her heels in the final and sweep by her on the final curve--or earlier.

[az2004]

if montano went 55.55 in finals to get away from savinova or the other better women fine

BUT USA trials, I fully agrree that was here style, but i think it's the wrong approach

[pakillo]

well Montano is in the semis and Arzamasava with 69 lap is out.

[sprintzfan]

Well okay. It will be interesting to see in the semis what Montano has left in the tank. She really flew that first 400 or 600. It looked highly exhausting to me.

Montano's doing exactly what she did in the US Trials. I thought it was silly myself, but it worked, and with no loss of quality as the rounds progressed as she went 2:02.61, 2:00.25 and 1:59.08 in succession.

I think it gets her through the semis, but what then? People could be on her heels in the final and sweep by her on the final curve--or earlier.

Thanks dj. I guess I forgot about that from the Trials. And I remember seeing her in Trials. But I don't remember that for whatever reason.

Well I am getting older.

[Alan Shank]

Well okay. It will be interesting to see in the semis what Montano has left in the tank. She really flew that first 400 or 600. It looked highly exhausting to me.

Montano's doing exactly what she did in the US Trials. I thought it was silly myself, but it worked, and with no loss of quality as the rounds progressed as she went 2:02.61, 2:00.25 and 1:59.08 in succession.

It worked against US opposition, 1:59 range.
EPelle - They are, unfortunately, not splitting the 200, although they are splitting the 600 (WTF?), but I'm pretty sure she was right around 27, perhaps faster. I will try to check that on the replay on NBC, where I can freeze the video, but often they are showing one of those f----cking "artistic' shots, head on or of their feet, so you can't get accurate splits that way, either. For me, perhaps the most frustrating thing about watching races on TV is the choice of cameras and angles that the moronic director chooses. I keep telling myself, "Relax, Alan, next year you will be there and you can watch whatever you damn well please!!!"

[EPelle]

I think it gets her through the semis, but what then? People could be on her heels in the final and sweep by her on the final curve--or earlier.

Jelimo will likely take the final out in 54-mid to 55-high. By challenging her body at this early juncture, Montaño has an ability to get into a brilliant groove. She steps on the gas, gets her legs running hard from the rest period between her final workout and today, recovers during the race and gets her muscles in the state she'll need when it counts. Incremental work that first lap -- different focal points each 100m. Eases off the pace and saves it for later. May work out brilliantly for her. Maybe not.

[Alan Shank]

if montano went 55.55 in finals to get away from savinova or the other better women fine

BUT USA trials, I fully agrree that was here style, but i think it's the wrong approach

I think Montano's best strategy would be to shadow Jelimo, let her do the work; it will be fast enough, and maybe Montano will have something left. SAvinova will not follow 55 closely, nor did she last year. She is more like Borzakovskiy at his best, but I don't know whether she can break 1:55.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

[croflash]

I think it gets her through the semis, but what then? People could be on her heels in the final and sweep by her on the final curve--or earlier.

Jelimo will likely take the final out in 54-mid to 55-high. By challenging her body at this early juncture, Montaño has an ability to get into a brilliant groove. She steps on the gas, gets her legs running hard from the rest period between her final workout and today, recovers during the race and gets her muscles in the state she'll need when it counts. Incremental work that first lap -- different focal points each 100m. Eases off the pace and saves it for later. May work out brilliantly for her. Maybe not.

Why would Jelimo want to get out even faster? She doesn't have to run sub 1:55, let alone sub 1:54 to win gold. Assuming that Montano makes the final, the best thing that could happen to Jelimo is Montano setting a very, very fast pace through the first 400-500 stretching the entire field and allowing her to get some separation from the rest of the pack.

[j-a-m]

Jelimo will likely take the final out in 54-mid to 55-high. By challenging her body at this early juncture, Montaño has an ability to get into a brilliant groove. She steps on the gas, gets her legs running hard from the rest period between her final workout and today, recovers during the race and gets her muscles in the state she'll need when it counts. Incremental work that first lap -- different focal points each 100m. Eases off the pace and saves it for later. May work out brilliantly for her. Maybe not.

So far I like her strategy. Also, she looked fine after today's heat, so it's not like she fell apart after going out that fast.

[rsb2]

I wonder, is it possible to comment on how an athlete/coach plan and execute their strategy without resorting to name calling, on our omniscient board?

[aaronk]

More power to ANY woman who takes it out in 54 or 55!!
Now if only the MEN had those kind of balls!!!

[Alan Shank]

More power to ANY woman who takes it out in 54 or 55!!
Now if only the MEN had those kind of balls!!!

I looked at the video of Montano's heat on the DVR. She was 26.6-26.7 at 200, 55.55 (28.8-9), 1:27.22 (31.67) and 2:00.47 (33.25). That's is a Heeeeeeeeeeeeel of a lot harder than running 59, 61 or so. Balls, not brains.

If she were to run 28, 29, 29 for 1:26, she'd be in much better shape than the way she ran today, and she'd be a tenth ahead and going faster. It's sort of like the joke, "Don't criticize a person until you've walked a mile in their shoes, because when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes!".

Aaronk, you are ignoring physiology; I guess you didn't take it at Pierce. >:-)
Cheers,
Alan Shank

[26mi235]

But she looked like she could run 31 for that last 200. She was tiring but was very much under control with something left in her tank.

[Marlow]

Jelimo will likely take the final out in 54-mid to 55-high. By challenging her body at this early juncture, Montaño has an ability to get into a brilliant groove.

Doubt it. Montano will take it out at her usual 55 and challenge a would-be medalist to stay with her. Everyone assumes she'll close with her usual 63 (and she well may), but I think that her body may be able to respond better than we think, precisely because she's done it so many times. I expect her to go 55-61 and 'steal' the Bronze.

[rsb2]

Mr. Shank, why do you feel a need to be such a know-it-all smartass, as far as Alysia goes. You talk as though she and her coach have zero knowledge of basic physiology, and she should run her qualifying rounds as you see fit. Do you think it is even remotely possible that they are working on a slightly different part of "the game", one which they may have forgotten to mention to you ? If you had bothered to make yourself knowledgeable about Alysia and her race tactics over the past several years, as compared to trying to lecture us on Phys. 101, you might have noticed that she has been testing various ways of attacking the 800 metres, and finding the way that suits her best. I say good for her, lots of brains and balls, regardless of the yip-yapping from the peanut gallery.

[sprintzfan]

Good argument you make rsb2. That's food for thought to me.

I hope I get to hear her interviewed at some point and learn more about the particular way they have decided to "attack" this race in London. An interview centered on something more than her flower is what I'm saying I'd enjoy.

Hopefully BBC can get ahold of her, if she does well in the Final.

[EPelle]

Why would Jelimo want to get out even faster? She doesn't have to run sub 1:55, let alone sub 1:54 to win gold. Assuming that Montano makes the final, the best thing that could happen to Jelimo is Montano setting a very, very fast pace through the first 400-500 stretching the entire field and allowing her to get some separation from the rest of the pack.

I appreciate your comment and opinion on the sub-1.54. I haven't indicated that Jelimo would want to get out even faster. Jelimo is a front-runner. Not a follower (through the entirety of the first lap). As you know, she's not unaccustomed to front-running. Jepkosgei has shown remarkable form this season, and has worked some great magic on the track behind the scenes. Considerations -- amongst others -- that Jelimo's taking into account. Call it a hunch. Not scripture.

[croflash]

Why would Jelimo want to get out even faster? She doesn't have to run sub 1:55, let alone sub 1:54 to win gold. Assuming that Montano makes the final, the best thing that could happen to Jelimo is Montano setting a very, very fast pace through the first 400-500 stretching the entire field and allowing her to get some separation from the rest of the pack.

I appreciate your comment and opinion on the sub-1.54. I haven't indicated that Jelimo would want to get out even faster. Jelimo is a front-runner. Not a follower (through the entirety of the first lap). As you know, she's not unaccustomed to front-running. Jepkosgei has shown remarkable form this season, and has worked some great magic on the track behind the scenes. Considerations -- amongst others -- that Jelimo's taking into account. Call it a hunch. Not scripture.

Those are definitely valid points. I think it's going to be a great race, possibly one of the most exciting of these Olympics. The 800 are just so unpredictable though, you can never be quite certain what is going to happen and which tactics are going to be used.

[aaronk]

P.S. to Alan Shank.........

Never attended classes at Pierce!
Just ran in their A-C meets!!!

But DID start going to LA Valley JC right after HS, but had to drop out to have plastic surgery to correct damage done to my face during an earlier surgery. (At UCLA Med Center.)

While at LA Valley, though, I started running CC in the fall of 1962, and ran some workouts with Steepler Dick Krenzer, among others!!

Remember him??
He ran an 8:57 the next spring, I believe, making him one of the best JC steeplers in the nation!!

[EME1980]

Hopefully BBC can get ahold of her, if she does well in the Final.

Have a look at flotrack.org the day after the race. They interview her regularly and have filmed her workouts a couple of times too.

[aaronk]

For what it's worth:

Jelimo's best 400 is a 52.78A from 2008.
Montano has a 52.09 400 PR from 2010.

So it would seem to me Montano could better handle a first lap in 55.00!!

[Alan Shank]

P.S. to Alan Shank.........

Never attended classes at Pierce!
Just ran in their A-C meets!!!

While at LA Valley, though, I started running CC in the fall of 1962, and ran some workouts with Steepler Dick Krenzer, among others!!

Remember him??
He ran an 8:57 the next spring, I believe, making him one of the best JC steeplers in the nation!!

I do remember Dick Krenzer, yes.

As to the 400 PRs for Jelimo and Montano, they should be taken with several grains of salt, as with all not-their-event PRs.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

[Alan Shank]

Mr. Shank, why do you feel a need to be such a know-it-all smartass, as far as Alysia goes. You talk as though she and her coach have zero knowledge of basic physiology, and she should run her qualifying rounds as you see fit.

Unlike some of the posters here and in the 1500s, I have no interest in forcing athletes to qualify in a certain way, i.e. fast times. My concern with Montano is that she is wasting precious energy, both in a single race and for handling the rounds.

Do you think it is even remotely possible that they are working on a slightly different part of "the game", one which they may have forgotten to mention to you ? If you had bothered to make yourself knowledgeable about Alysia and her race tactics over the past several years, as compared to trying to lecture us on Phys. 101, you might have noticed that she has been testing various ways of attacking the 800 metres, and finding the way that suits her best.

I have watched Johnson/Montano since she was at Berkeley, and she has been a front runner almost all the time, as far as I remember. Apparently, she thinks this is the way that suits her best; I think it's unwise. Sorry.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

[lapsus]

Heat 2 seems to be the toughest and has Johnson Montano as pacemaker, 4 to advance from that heat?

On the flip side, Jelimo and Savinova may be able to save a bit more energy for tomorrow than Jepkosgei and Semenya will.

[j-a-m]

Heat 2 seems to be the toughest and has Johnson Montano as pacemaker, 4 to advance from that heat?

Montano 4th; heat was faster than first; so 4 to advance still possible.

[croflash]

I really want to see what happens when they go out in sub 56 through 400 in the final.

[j-a-m]

Heat 2 seems to be the toughest and has Johnson Montano as pacemaker, 4 to advance from that heat?

And yeah, it was Johnson Montano who kept the pace high, first lap was almost three seconds faster than the first heat.

[uakari]

f****k... nbc stream kept freezing during semi 2.

ugh... semenya didn't even break a sweat ... montano on the bubble.

looking at caster, my suspicions seem to be confirmed, that she might be undergoing cross-gender hormone therapy. she def. has more boobs and hips than before.

[croflash]

Niyonsaba is the definition of "raw".

[j-a-m]

3rd heat seemed slightly slower than 2nd, so all four from 2nd heat should be in.

[sprintzfan]

Hopefully BBC can get ahold of her, if she does well in the Final.

Have a look at flotrack.org the day after the race. They interview her regularly and have filmed her workouts a couple of times too.

THANK YOU!! I've never even visited that site before. It sounds awesome. I think you may have just given me a new favorite resource for following this sport.

Thanks so much! I've seen that site name before, but for whatever reason have never been there.

Realy appreciate it.

[dj]

T&FN formchart advancers to final

1. Pamela Jelimo (Kenya)
2. Mariya Savinova (Russia)
3. Fantu Magiso (Ethiopia)
4. Caster Semenya (South Africa)
5. Alysia Montaño (USA)
6. Francine Niyonsaba (Burundi)
7. Yelena Arzhakova (Russia)
8. Janeth Jepkosgei (Kenya)
9. Yekaterina Poistogova (Russia)
10. Natalya Lupu (Ukraine)