Dave Sime


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Dave Sime

Postby mrbowie » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:34 pm

The story on Dave Sime that appeared on the front page was a real eye opener. I had no idea that Dave was a) such an all-around athlete or b) that he has led such an incredible life. So then I googled him and found some more interesting stories about him. This guy is worthy of at least a book and maybe a movie. Simply an amazing human being. And he possesses a great attitude, especially for somebody that has faced the medical challenges he has.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby user4 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:43 pm

one of the greatest student-athletes in the history of track and field .
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby rhymans » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:55 pm

Not mentioned in the excellent article, but indicative of his extraordinary talent was that he ran in an all-comers meet in Florida 11 years after "retiring" from the sport and ran 9.6y! The peculiar thing in the story is the Sime quote that "Bobby Morrow never beat me". He did of course the week after Sime ran his 20.0y (the reference to his injury "before the AAU" must have intended to mean NCAA) at the NCAA. Sime had beaten Morrow at Drake in April with the aid of a rolling start, and Morrow exacted revenge at the NCAA, winning clearly by 0.14. Sime ended with a lifetime record of 6-5 against Morrow
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby mrbowie » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:44 am

How old was he when he ran that 9.6y?
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby dukehjsteve » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:35 am

mrbowie wrote:How old was he when he ran that 9.6y?


Well, if the 11 years part is correct, and 1960 was his last year, that makes it 1971. He graduated from Duke in 1958, presumably at age 22, so that takes him to age 35.

The article cited Al Buehler as his coach. Not true. His coach was long-time Head Track coach Bob Chambers. Buehler coached distance guys.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby user4 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:41 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:
mrbowie wrote:How old was he when he ran that 9.6y?


Well, if the 11 years part is correct, and 1960 was his last year, that makes it 1971. He graduated from Duke in 1958, presumably at age 22, so that takes him to age 35.

The article cited Al Buehler as his coach. Not true. His coach was long-time Head Track coach Bob Chambers. Buehler coached distance guys.


Least we run the fools errand of attempting to compare his (age 35) 9.6y with today's sprinters, recall that Sime would have been an MD and approximately 7 years into his ophthalmology practice by then.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby bambam » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:56 pm

user4 wrote:Least we run the fools errand of attempting to compare his (age 35) 9.6y with today's sprinters, recall that Sime would have been an MD and approximately 7 years into his ophthalmology practice by then.


Not that it change your thesis much, but more like 4 years into his practice. He graduated med school in 1963 (he took off part of the Olympic year), then had to do a residency in ophthalmology, which was 4 or 5 years back then (not certain). So he may have only been 3-4 years into practice. You underestimate how long it takes to become a practising physician. It takes awhile.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby mrbowie » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:49 pm

I'd like to see confirmation of that 9.6y in the Florida all-comers meet. I find it really hard to believe. I've seen top athletes just a few years out of training and some of them are really gone. I remember a great near 7-foot high jumper from 1955 fail to clear 5'10" inches one day at UCLA 4 or 5 years after his prime. So the 9.6 thing boggles the mind.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby Per Andersen » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:51 pm

rhymans wrote:Not mentioned in the excellent article, but indicative of his extraordinary talent was that he ran in an all-comers meet in Florida 11 years after "retiring" from the sport and ran 9.6y! The peculiar thing in the story is the Sime quote that "Bobby Morrow never beat me". He did of course the week after Sime ran his 20.0y (the reference to his injury "before the AAU" must have intended to mean NCAA) at the NCAA. Sime had beaten Morrow at Drake in April with the aid of a rolling start, and Morrow exacted revenge at the NCAA, winning clearly by 0.14. Sime ended with a lifetime record of 6-5 against Morrow

About 20-25 years ago on one of Bud Greenspan's Olympic TV programs there was an interview with Sime. In that interview he also claimed never to have been beaten by Morrow. Strange.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby rhymans » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:25 pm

This is their record together in championship finals

1956 NCAA 100 Morrow 10.4, Sime 10.6 (0.14 back)
200 Morow 20.6, Sime Dnf
1960 AAU 200 4. Morrow 21.1, 6. Sime 21.2

Additionally Sime was a dnf in their '56 OT heat, which Morrow won in 10.2, and conversely Morrow failed to qualify for the 1960 AAU 100 final, where Sime was 5th in 10.7, and in the OT that year Sime ran 21.0 and just missed making the final, where Morrow was 4th. All in all Sime won 0 championships, and was in the top-3 on 4 occasion, always in the 100 (OG '60/2nd, OT '60/3rd, NCAA '56 2nd, AAU '57 2nd). Morrow won 12 titles (OG 100/200 '56, OT 100/200 '56, AAU 100 '55-56, 58, 220 '58, NCAA 100/200 '56-57) - only Lewis won more titles (16 - including 2 world titles not available in Sime/Morrow's day)
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby dj » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:16 am

rhymans wrote:Morrow won 12 titles (OG 100/200 '56, OT 100/200 '56, AAU 100 '55-56, 58, 220 '58, NCAA 100/200 '56-57) - only Lewis won more titles (16 - including 2 world titles not available in Sime/Morrow's day)


Ralph Metcalfe also had more titles with 14.

NCAA sprint doubles in '32-33-34, AAU sprint doubles in '32-33-34, and AAU wins in the 200 in and '35 and '36.

Metcalfe had no OG sprint wins, although his loss in the '32 100 to Eddie Tolan brought about a rules change, which, had it been in place at the time would have made Metcalfe the gold medalist. And the '32 OG 200 was run with misplaced starting lines, which also went to Metcalfe's disadvantage, although by how much is not known.

Metcalfe suffered the further disadvantage of having the 1932 OT and AAU meets combined at Stanford. Technically, that gives him 16 titles, although in only 14 races.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby gh » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:04 am

you can imagine how much stock one should put in a hand-timed summer all-comer's meet. Don't believe the 9.6 for an instant.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby nunusguy » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:54 am

During his career, he held world records at 100 yd, 220 yd, and the 220 yd low hurdles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Sime
Don't forget Sime was also a hurdler as he held some records in the now extinct 220 lows.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby rhymans » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:53 pm

DJ wrote

Ralph Metcalfe also had more titles with 14.

A senior moment - with apologies to RM
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby user4 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:28 pm

gh wrote:you can imagine how much stock one should put in a hand-timed summer all-comer's meet. Don't believe the 9.6 for an instant.


A 9.6 at his prime as a 20 yr old in 1956 was no small feat on a cinder track. It is indeed very hard to imagine that he turned the same out as a 35 yr old.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby KDFINE » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:42 pm

I thought it was a 9.7 at the all comers meet. It was reported in Track & Field News.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby errolM » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:04 am

If Sime is so wonderful, why is he lying about Morrow?
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby rhymans » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:04 pm

If Sime is so wonderful, why is he lying about Morrow?
-

Well, "old men forget, yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember with advantage what deeds he did (that) day" (Henry V)
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:08 pm

One of my favorite plays.

    We few, we happy few, we band of brothers.
    For he today that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
    This day shall gentle his condition.
    And gentlemen in England now abed
    Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
    And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
    That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's Day.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby dfj » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:59 pm

hye

i think it could have been possible he ran 9.6yd at 35.

check other records for 35 year olds...

as a Decathlete i high jumped 6'5" at 36 with a PR of 6-7/2.00m @26

i know us "old" guys do forget...

dfj
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby user4 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:10 pm

dfj wrote:hye

i think it could have been possible he ran 9.6yd at 35.

check other records for 35 year olds...

as a Decathlete i high jumped 6'5" at 36 with a PR of 6-7/2.00m @26

i know us "old" guys do forget...

dfj


The most outstanding 30+ year old sprinter in my mind is Barney Ewell ...

I am viewing/understanding Sime's reported 9.6 (as a 35 year old) in 1971 has having been run on cinder. If he did that it is remarkable, very nearly unbelievable. Likewise I dont judge other sprinters from the early/mid 80s onward by the same standards, they are training / running on different surfaces, with much better methods. A 35 year old that runs a 9.4 on these surfaces with these training methods is not Barney Ewell's equal.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby Jackaloupe » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:13 pm

Sorry to see this Thread that started out as an homage to Dave Sime, Scholar/Athlete/MD, devolve into an inane discussin' of some obscure All-comers Meet, let alone his recall of Bobby Morrow races. Neglected was Sime's 22.0 220 Low Hurdles time, which I'm not about to research but do recall.

We used to run that event in Elizabeth, NJ 'all-comers', then called Olympic Development meets, where Dave tried to recruit me for Duke when I was heartbent on USC. I got to see both Sime and Morrow from well behind in the 100 y, he in NJ and Morrow in a Fresno Relays heat. I took cold comfort in getting out of the blocks even w/ Morrow, only to watch (and feel) his continued smooth acceleration for the next 30-40 yards.

His handsome, red-haired countenance bore a strong resemblance to Dennis Hopper in Giant, believe it or not y'all EasyRiders!
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby user4 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:34 pm

Thanks for sharing that. We are all big Sime fans... Makes no difference what he ran as a practicing MD at 35, OG 100 m silver as a med student puts him on the absolute top tier of greats.
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Re: Dave Sime

Postby Jackaloupe » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:23 pm

Thanx 4 bringin' it back to the spirit of the OlyGames, "4" (May I call you that?)
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