A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (Locked down several times a year during the major championships)
One potential problem. Would the players still work for free?
Another consequence is that with the exception of division I men's basketball, it would mark the end of big-time college sports as we know, including our beloved track and field.
Exactly. Heresy of Daisy and Conor Dary calls for a burning at stake. Nothing less would suffice.
Pego wrote:Heresy of Daisy and Conor calls for a burning at stake. Nothing less would suffice.
We'd only lose a few track programs
Don't the europeans manage fine without university level sports? Or do their clubs fill the gap? Sometimes I wonder whether the clubs are actually healthier as there is more involvement at all ages rather than just packing it in after university.
I also have to wonder whether PSU did not gain any competitive advantage by covering up the crime. If it had been exposed in 1998, could they have recruited the players they did since then? How is that interpreted?
TN1965 wrote:I also have to wonder whether PSU did not gain any competitive advantage by covering up the crime. If it had been exposed in 1998, could they have recruited the players they did since then? How is that interpreted?
Now that's an Orwellian interpretation competitive advantage.
Bruce Kritzler wrote:It means whatever the NCAA Infraction Committee wants it to mean. (big Catch-All)
Actually it has to do with people acting on behalf of the athletic department without any oversight. The vast majority of the time it involves rogue boosters, but it can involve university employees who are acting without the consent of a coach and/or athletic director. Ironiocally, SMU didn't have a LOIC situation because all the decsions involving money and gifts to player were discussed and approved at meetings which included the athletic director, the President, the board of dorectors and the Governor.
TN1965 wrote:I also have to wonder whether PSU did not gain any competitive advantage by covering up the crime. If it had been exposed in 1998, could they have recruited the players they did since then? How is that interpreted?
Now that's an Orwellian interpretation competitive advantage.
TN1965 wrote:I also have to wonder whether PSU did not gain any competitive advantage by covering up the crime. If it had been exposed in 1998, could they have recruited the players they did since then? How is that interpreted?
Now that's an Orwellian interpretation competitive advantage.
Not at all.
CD, you've already proven that you're too obtuse to understand the underlying difference between Penn State and SMU. So I suggest that we follow gh's request to follow rule #14, since there won't be any constructive debate between you and I on this topic.
TN1965 wrote:I also have to wonder whether PSU did not gain any competitive advantage by covering up the crime. If it had been exposed in 1998, could they have recruited the players they did since then? How is that interpreted?
Now that's an Orwellian interpretation competitive advantage.
Not at all.
CD, you've already proven that you're too obtuse to understand the underlying difference between Penn State and SMU.
It is over jazz.
Last edited by Conor Dary on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Well, well, it looks like the NCAA is going to do something.
The NCAA will announce "corrective and punitive measures" for Penn State on Monday morning, it said in a statement, with CBS News reporting the penalties to be "unprecedented," affecting the football program and the school.
NCAA president Mark Emmert will reveal the sanctions Monday at 9 a.m. ET in Indianapolis at the organization's headquarters along with Ed Ray, the chairman of the NCAA's executive committee and Oregon State's president, the news release said.
Not the death penalty, but pretty brutal. Doubtful any players will leave this year, but from now on the only players they will be able to get will be walk-ons. The team will suck for about 10 years, if not longer.
The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning.
The career record of Joe Paterno will reflect these vacated records, the NCAA said.
Penn State must also reduce 10 initial and 20 total scholarships each year for a four-year period.
They should have shut down the athletic department and fucked every other sport at the same time. Aside from this involving a football coach, not a single football student-athlete was involved. This is crazy. Vacating wins! Reducing scholarships! Paterno didn't win all those games by himself, dedicated kids did! This implies that THEY did something wrong. We're punishing kids when it doesn't involve kids. This is a horrible precedent!
...The NCAA ordered Penn State to pay the penalty funds into an endowment for "external programs preventing child sexual abuse or assisting victims and may not be used to fund such programs at the university."
How is this within the authority of the NCAA?
"This is unique and this kind of power has never been tested or tried," the former chair said. "It's unprecedented to have this extensive power. This has nothing to do with the purpose of the infractions process. Nevertheless, somehow (the NCAA president and executive board) have taken it on themselves to be a commissioner and to penalize a school for improper conduct."
The chair said that the NCAA was dealing with a case that is outside the traditional rules or violations. He said this case does not fall within the basic fundamental purpose of NCAA regulations.
"The purpose of the NCAA is to keep a level playing field among schools and to make sure they use proper methods through scholarships and etcetera," the chair said. "This is not a case that would normally go through the process. It has nothing to do with a level playing field. It has nothing to do with whether Penn State gets advantages over other schools in recruiting or in the number of coaches or things that we normally deal with."
The NCAA, the chair said, had never gotten involved in punishing schools for criminal behavior.
"The criminal courts are perfectly capable of handling these situations," the former chair said. "This is a new phase and a new thing. They are getting into bad behavior that are somehow connected to those who work in the athletic department.
"This is an important precedent. And it should be taken with extreme care."
preston wrote:How is this within the authority of the NCAA?
It seems as though the NCAA is tacitly admitting that it's not within their authority but they're going to do ut anyway. Recently, they dropped the hammer on division III Cal Tech and a couple years ago they turned a blind eye to Auburn and Cam Newton in a situation in which there was a clear-cut violation of its bylaws, so this incident only serves to further discredit it.
jazzcyclist wrote: , so this incident only serves to further discredit it.
With a new president bringing the hammer down on Penn State it shows the exact opposite. And remember PSU agreed to these sanctions.
That the N.C.A.A. acted this quickly and decisively did not come as a particular surprise to the former Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe, a former N.C.A.A. investigator. Beebe said that the N.C.A.A. has struggled to appear relevant recently while dealing with some of the major issues surrounding college sports, including high-profile cases of rules violations and conference realignment, and that the organization expressed a sincere interest in being more proactive at a retreat in Indianapolis last year.
“I certainly think there have been a lot of changes and issues that have arisen that the N.C.A.A. hasn’t been able to get to,” said Beebe, who is a founding partner in BMT Risk Management, a company that advises colleges and professional sports teams on workplace misconduct.
He added: “I think the N.C.A.A. wasn’t a part of realignment, and the playoff movement did not involve N.C.A.A. staff. I think this is an area, like you said, that’s unprecedented and horrific, and I think there’s a real focus on what the N.C.A.A. can and will do about it.”
This is a perfect time for the Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, SEC and ACC (doubtful as to whether the Big East should be included) to break off and create their own governing body and leave the NCAA to mid-majors, indies and whoever wants to remain.
preston wrote:This is a perfect time for the Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, SEC and ACC (doubtful as to whether the Big East should be included) to break off and create their own governing body and leave the NCAA to mid-majors, indies and whoever wants to remain.
"Ed Ray, the president of Oregon State and the chairman of the N.C.A.A.'s executive committee, said the case, and the sanctions imposed, represented a declaration by university presidents and chancellors that 'this has to stop.' By that he meant a win-at-all-costs mentality with respect to intercollegiate sports.
preston wrote:How is this within the authority of the NCAA?
The NCAA can't really force Penn State to pay. What they can do is kick Penn State out of the NCAA if they don't pay. And kicking out a school for egregious wrongdoing is almost certainly in the authority of the NCAA.
preston wrote:We're punishing kids when it doesn't involve kids. This is a horrible precedent!
The villagers, pitchforks in hand, said 'burn it to the ground'. Had the NCAA not thrown the baby out with the bath (to mix metaphors), the pitchforks would have impaled the NCAA itself. It's kill or be killed. We wanted our pound of flesh (more allusions?!), so the NCAA gave it to us. Blame not the messenger (judge, jury and executioner); blame ourselves.
I have great empathy for all the truly innocent people who will be negatively affected by this sentence, but, on the other hand, the crime was heinous, and heads must roll. Collateral damage is a bitch.
