WTF!!! It's not rocket science

[MissThickBooty]

Just god awful baton passing? I don't get it? Both races scare me and the ability of the US teams to make the final and actually FINISH the race!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uh6dre ... el&list=UL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlf2b8c ... el&list=UL

[Tuariki]

Jeneba Tarmoh says "it was just a communication problem". She has had a lot of that problem lately. And as I said in a previous post I would not have Tarmoh on the team. She is likely to still have deep seated psychological issues (resentment) given her recent outbursts, which will likely stay with her through London.

[fourjz]

Practice,that's all.We'll be fine.

[MissThickBooty]

Tarmoh OUT, Duncan IN, the U.S can still break the WR on 3rd IMO, Damn Myers why did u have to get knocked up in an Olympic year,.

Oh and Where are he Jamaicans in Eurooe? I was very suspect of those super fast 100m Jamaican trial times. SAFP, Kerron, VCB have not been impressive at all in Europe EVEN Blake's run was not his best.

[gh]

all-caps subject lines are a no-no on this forum. Please don't.

[LadyT]

Can Duncan be used at the OG? She wasn't listed as one of the alternates.

[tm71]

agree. replace tarmoh with duncan and we'll be fine!

[ATK]

Can Duncan be used at the OG? She wasn't listed as one of the alternates.

Only Williams, Knight, and Tarmoh can be used. Duncan cannot.

Tarmoh will be fine.

[Tuariki]

Can Duncan be used at the OG? She wasn't listed as one of the alternates.

Only Williams, Knight, and Tarmoh can be used. Duncan cannot.

Tarmoh will be fine.

And on what do you base your confidence on? She screwed up in Monaco. She was pathetic and obviously resentful over the trials issue. She is not worth the risk.

[LadyT]

Whose idea was it to choose Williams and NOT choose Duncan to the relay pool!!!

[tm71]

Can Duncan be used at the OG? She wasn't listed as one of the alternates.

Only Williams, Knight, and Tarmoh can be used. Duncan cannot.

Tarmoh will be fine.

that is technically true if duncan has not been put on the olympic team roster. if williams, knigh and tarmoh are the only choices, we might as well get allison to run both the 2nd and 3rd leg. kidding, but i really do not trust either tarmoh, knight or williams !

[LadyT]

Technically Duncan is on the roster as the 200m alternate, however, I am not sure if alternates can be used. I would trust Knight though. She held her own.

[Marlow]

Practice,that's all.We'll be fine.

Well, I'd never go egg-counting with the USA 4x1, but I'd say this is a 'promising' debut. Both can iron out wrinkles and go .4 faster. Just keep the baton moving!

[gh]

Technically Duncan is on the roster as the 200m alternate, however, I am not sure if alternates can be used. I would trust Knight though. She held her own.

My understanding is no.... the purpose behind this whole thing (by the IOC) is to restrict the number of bodies who come to town. Duncan could only run the relay if one of the first 3 in the 200 withdraws from the meet and she replaces her in the 200 itself.

[guru]

Technically Duncan is on the roster as the 200m alternate, however, I am not sure if alternates can be used. I would trust Knight though. She held her own.

My understanding is no.... the purpose behind this whole thing (by the IOC) is to restrict the number of bodies who come to town. Duncan could only run the relay if one of the first 3 in the 200 withdraws from the meet and she replaces her in the 200 itself.

God help us if Drummond gets skittish and puts Miss 11.67 back in the 3-spot...

[ATK]

God help us if Drummond gets skittish and puts Miss 11.67 back in the 3-spot...

You really really don't want her on the relay!
But seriously, I don't think anyone does anyway.

[guru]

Videos of both are now posted on Universal sports. Really doesn't look like any major issues that cant be fixed in three weeks. Gay had almost exactly the same issues as Tarmoh, but unlike Jeter Bailey managed to a get a handle on it at the last second.

[gh]

Whose idea was it to choose Williams and NOT choose Duncan to the relay pool!!!

could be a coincidence, but the head coach is Amy Deem, who is the coach at Miami and Williams went to......

[Speedster]

Whose idea was it to choose Williams and NOT choose Duncan to the relay pool!!!

could be a coincidence, but the head coach is Amy Deem, who is the coach at Miami and Williams went to......

Lauryn did finish top 6 at the trials so has won her place by right, but the link to Deem is going to raise questions. Despite her saying she's got the first back to compete, she looks disinterested on the start line, which is sad fro someone who was such a great competitor.

In fairness to Tarmoh, she did come back and run 11.09, her second fastest time ever in the open 100m. She's in shape and with a little more practise they'll get together.

[fourjz]

Can Duncan be used at the OG? She wasn't listed as one of the alternates.

Only Williams, Knight, and Tarmoh can be used. Duncan cannot. Tarmoh will be fine.

And on what do you base your confidence on? She screwed up in Monaco. She was pathetic and obviously resentful over the trials issue. She is not worth the risk.

Jeneba Tarmoh has relay experience from Tennessee,and most recently at Texas A & M.She was also on the World Junior 4x100 Relay that set the World Junior Record in 2006 with Bianca Knight,Tarmoh,Elizabeth Olear,and Gabby Mayo in Eugene at 43.29.Guess who the new Relay Coach was on that USA Team ? Yes, John Drummond ! He knows Tarmoh from way back then when Jeneba was a junior in high school.The USA team of Tarmoh,Alexandria Anderson,Olear,and Mayo went to Bejing,China that year and won the gold medal at World JuniorChampionships.Just practice,and Tarmoh,and everybody else will be fine.

[Tuariki]

Can Duncan be used at the OG? She wasn't listed as one of the alternates.

Only Williams, Knight, and Tarmoh can be used. Duncan cannot. Tarmoh will be fine.

And on what do you base your confidence on? She screwed up in Monaco. She was pathetic and obviously resentful over the trials issue. She is not worth the risk.

Jeneba Tarmoh has relay experience from Tennessee,and most recently at Texas A & M.She was also on the World Junior 4x100 Relay that set the World Junior Record in 2006 with Bianca Knight,Tarmoh,Elizabeth Olear,and Gabby Mayo in Eugene at 43.29.Guess who the new Relay Coach was on that USA Team ? Yes, John Drummond ! He knows Tarmoh from way back then when Jeneba was a junior in high school.The USA team of Tarmoh,Alexandria Anderson,Olear,and Mayo went to Bejing,China that year and won the gold medal at World JuniorChampionships.Just practice,and Tarmoh,and everybody else will be fine.

Sounds like Drummond has had 6 years coaching Tarmoh to run relays and learn how to receive a baton and pass a baton. Given that, based on her successful relay record, she appears to know how to do these things then what do we have left for her less than stellar display of relay skills at Monaco. I still suspect that she may be having difficulty getting over the furore of Eugene. Hopefully, she will, as you say, be fine.

[ATK]

I still suspect that she may be having difficulty getting over the furore of Eugene. Hopefully, she will, as you say, be fine.

I would assume you think she has been having problems since then and not just in this one race.
Just to let you know she trains full time with Felix and if she was really having problems, I doubt she would have come out and run her second fastest time ever (wind converted, it is actually faster).

[Tuariki]

I still suspect that she may be having difficulty getting over the furore of Eugene. Hopefully, she will, as you say, be fine.

I would assume you think she has been having problems since then and not just in this one race.
Just to let you know she trains full time with Felix and if she was really having problems, I doubt she would have come out and run her second fastest time ever (wind converted, it is actually faster).

I am aware she trains full time with Felix. I am aware that she is fast and based on times she deserves her spot in the relay.

You point to the fact that she ran her 2nd fastest time ever in Monaco. Although true you have overlooked the obvious. If (and I am not saying she does, just that she might), if she does still harbor a deep seated resentment over what happened at Eugene then running 11.09 in a race without Felix does not make that resentment go away - it will still be there.

The reality is that Tarmoh had a horror relay - hand over and hand off. You say it is no problem because she is vastly experienced as a relay runner and Drummond has 6 years of experience working with her. Well that experience counted for nought at Monaco.

If she gets to run at London in the final I hope she has gotten over Eugene and that she achieves her potential. If both USA and Jamaica run to their potentials and don't screw up their baton changes the w4x100 should be one of the highlights of the Games - with hopefully a suspicion free world record.

[aaronk]

I'm one of those who still feel (believe!!) Tarmoh was "robbed" in Eugene!!
That said, I haven't seen (or heard of) any resentment or bad feelings between Tarmoh and Felix since the Trials.
While Tarmoh herself still believes she got robbed (Haven't seen or heard her say otherwise!!), it obviously has NOT affected her running. The 11.09 proves that.

I think it comes down, as a few have stated, to a LACK OF PRACTICE!!!
Not just lack of practice as a relayist (Both Felix and Tarmoh have plenty of that!!!), but as relayists on the same team, who hand off to or receive the baton from, each other!!

Maybe the best.......and SAFEST.......solution, if there are ANY doubts about "bad blood" between them, would be for Drummond to put another runner BETWEEN them!!!
Don't let one of them be the "blame" for the other's "failures"!!

Better yet, have about a MONTH of DAILY practice sessions for the ENTIRE relay team(s)!!!

[ATK]

You point to the fact that she ran her 2nd fastest time ever in Monaco. Although true you have overlooked the obvious. If (and I am not saying she does, just that she might), if she does still harbor a deep seated resentment over what happened at Eugene then running 11.09 in a race without Felix does not make that resentment go away - it will still be there.

If she was still having resentment of the problem and it was serious, she wouldn't have run fast at all...
If she is having personal issues regarding Eugeue, I'm pretty sure its not affecting her involvement with track. Your over thinking that old dead heat issue.

[slowjo]

Does anyone have a link for the relays other than those in this thread? Non Americans, or at least Canucks, can not view them.

[NotSoOrdinary]

Tarmoh is a mess. Of course Bianca should take her place.

[ATK]

Tarmoh is a mess. Of course Bianca should take her place.

You should watch the race again, as late as Tramoh got the baton, she cooked Knight on that 3rd leg.

[bruce3404]

You should watch the race again, as late as Tramoh got the baton, she cooked Knight on that 3rd leg.

I didn't see it that way at all. Looked to me like Knight had a slight edge. Unfortunately, no splits were posted on the DL website. I would favor the more-experienced Knight in the final, allowing Tarmoh to perhaps run only the first round. Her refusal to compete in the run off at Eugene has me questioning just where her head is at and at this point, I don't trust her in a main event.

[ATK]

You should watch the race again, as late as Tramoh got the baton, she cooked Knight on that 3rd leg.

I didn't see it that way at all. Looked to me like Knight had a slight edge.

Yea slight edge at the hand off, which means Tarmoh ran her down. By the time Felix and Tarmoh made their hand off, Knight was well into her running. If Jeter and had received the baton, she would have been even with Duncan.

[Tuariki]

Tarmoh is a mess. Of course Bianca should take her place.

You should watch the race again, as late as Tramoh got the baton, she cooked Knight on that 3rd leg.

ATK, I think you are missing the point.

From my viewing of the video it does not look like Tarmoh cooked Knight, although I agree she was marginally faster. However, that is not the point. The point is that because of the messed up changes Tarmoh cost her team at least 0.5 to 0.8 of a second. And in London she won't be up against Knight. She will be up against a much faster Jamaican.

[ATK]

Your probably not watching the race. It was not all Tarmoh's fault. The only thing Tarmoh actually did wrong in this race is go out late and Felix ran up on her. She did everything else right.
In the 4x1 topic, I described what happened in the race...

[26mi235]

Except people who are seemingly less dogmatic about this seem to think that most of the time lost was not the fault of Tarmoh. Since you are against her competing, why should we listen to you beyond noting your opinion (no). The rest comes out too much as rhetoric, not reason.

[Tuariki]

Your probably not watching the race. It was not all Tarmoh's fault. The only thing Tarmoh actually did wrong in this race is go out late and Felix ran up on her. She did everything else right.
In the 4x1 topic, I described what happened in the race...

ATK dismisses "going out late" as a major factor. I guess we will have to disagree on that.

However, I have taken ATK's hint and re-watched the video in slow motion.

ATK places some of the blame on Felix whereas I believe credit should go to Felix for making sure the baton was safely passed to Tarmoh, even though Tarmoh made it difficult by going out so late.

While Felix had to make sure she she handed the baton over she also had to make sure she didn't crash into Tarmoh and to stay steady to enable the hand over to be made. I believe the responsibility for handing the baton over falls primarily on the incoming runner. Felix completed that responsibility. However, I have to concede that Tarmoh also deserves credit for making sure she kept her hand available, and relatively steady, to enable Felix to get the baton to her.So, in this case I have to back down as both runners did their primary job - they got the baton exchanged safely and without losing too much time on the exchange.

At the other end, on further viewing of the video, I have to change my mind and agree with ATK. Jeter went out marginally too early. However, the baton should still have been passed over but Tarmoh missed Jeter's hand. A second attempt at handover should have been made but it seems that because Jeter went out a bit too fast Tarmoh had stretched to get the baton to her on the first attempt which caused her to lose her balance. It then looks like Jeter then made the mistake of turning around to see what was going on. This caused her hand to swing across the lane which meant Tarmoh would have had almost zero chance of getting the baton to her. However, it probably wouldn't have made much difference as Tarmoh had already lost her balance.

Summary - I have to change my mind and go with ATK. The relay was lost because of Jeter.

[ATK]

Thanks Tuariki for actually watching and analyzing the race. And your right, I though Felix should take some blame but, its more Tarmoh's fault on the 2nd exchange for not getting out at the right time.
But yes Tarmoh did on the 2nd exchange what Jeter should have done on the last, don't look back and keep a steady target.