Gun (Lack of) Control


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Gun (Lack of) Control

Postby Marlow » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:13 pm

-moved-
Last edited by Marlow on Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Daisy » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:43 pm

Marlow, it might surprise you that I have grown to love the first two movies. I like the way that Nolan plays with his characters, revealing the layers gradually, and he's not afraid to let them fall.

As to the twist, so Alfred's his real father? ;)
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby j-a-m » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:52 pm

Yeah, I gotta watch that movie; big fan of Nolan's work.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby JRM » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:19 pm

We have a babysitter lined up for a "date night" with the Dark Knight. Given my impression of the first two films, I am anxiously awaiting this release...
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Cooter Brown » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:34 am

Rewatch the first two if you get the chance before seeing DKR.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:39 am

Thanks for the preview. I like the series, though was luke warm on the last installment, but will plan on seeing this soon based in part on your recommendation. :D
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Marlow » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:46 am

odelltrclan wrote: plan on seeing this soon based in part on your recommendation. :D

Which is exactly why some people (mnaylor, * cough * cough *) will NOT go see it! :wink:
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby marknhj » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:17 am

Marlow wrote:
odelltrclan wrote: plan on seeing this soon based in part on your recommendation. :D

Which is exactly why some people (mnaylor, * cough * cough *) will NOT go see it! :wink:


You never know, it's on at my local IMAX and I read a good review in a Brit paper this morning...

btw - I was thinking of you at the weekend as I wasted $4.99 and 1.5 hours watching Sherlock Holmes 2 on iTunes. So laughably bad and so irritating with Richie's now very dated fast edits, I gave up before it finished. I should check to see if it's on your top films of the year list - I'd put money on it!
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Flumpy » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:04 pm

I can't wait. I've been counting down the days.

Are you in London yet Gary. Shall I get us tickets?? :lol:
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Marlow » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:08 pm

marknhj wrote:I wasted $4.99 and 1.5 hours watching Sherlock Holmes 2 on iTunes.

I'm only being half tongue-in-cheek when I say a movie like that can ONLY be appreciated on the BIG screen! Yes, I did indeed like it! 8-)
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby guru » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:03 am

Insanity as 12 are killed, 50+ injured by shooter at midnight screening in Colorado

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... orado?lite
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby odelltrclan » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:55 am

What is up with Colorado. Why do so many of these things happen there? :shock: Thin air?
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jhc68 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:42 am

Obviously a tragedy and a lunatic.
Add to the shooter's psychosis: There was a 3-month old shot and at this moment ABC is interviewing another mom who was shot... she had taken her 4-year old child and her 4-month old baby to the midnight showing of this dark, violent, noisy film... luckily the kids were OK (after having been thrown to the floor to prevent them from being shot) but WTF were these people thinking even taking tiny kids to the event?
An added irony, the ABC house talking-head shrink cautioned against letting kids younger than 10 even see the news because they couldn't possibly process it. But some parents thought the movie itself was perfectly fine for pre-schoolers and infants.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Pego » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:35 am

Release of the Coalition to stop gun violence. I do not think it is a copyrighted material.

CSGV STATEMENT ON THE MASS SHOOTING IN AURORA

Washington, DC—We are deeply saddened by today’s tragic events in Colorado. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the victims, those who were injured, and everyone traumatized by this senseless act of violence.

Reports indicate that the shooter, 24-year-old James Holmes, wore body armor and was armed with two Glock handguns, a tactical shotgun, and an AR-15 style assault rifle. He also released some type of chemical gas into the theater during the massacre. 12 fatalities have been reported so far, with approximately 38 moviegoers injured, including 16 critically.

Sadly, there is nothing novel about this tragedy. It is yet another massacre perpetuated by a homicidal maniac who was given easy access to lethal, military-style firepower.

The pro-gun movement has told us that bloodbaths like Aurora are the price we must pay to guarantee freedom and individual liberty in the United States. Rational Americans should reject such radical ideology and demand immediate reform of our gun laws.

The truth is that there is no greater threat to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” than the wanton gun violence that continues to destroy American families and communities. Until our legislators stand up to the extreme leadership of the National Rifle Association and enact laws to ensure the thorough screening of gun buyers, tragedies like Aurora will continue to haunt America. It is long past time to put public safety back on the agenda in the U.S. Congress, and in our state legislatures.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jeremyp » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:46 pm

Now we get to hear all the pointless redundancies from all the talking heads on TV. Maybe in kindness to Batman we should have a different thread for this.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby guru » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:57 pm

Haunting twitter feed of one of the victims, who had escaped the Canadian mall shooting a few weeks ago. Not so fortunate last night.


https://twitter.com/JessicaRedfield
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby JRM » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:47 pm

guru wrote:Haunting twitter feed of one of the victims, who had escaped the Canadian mall shooting a few weeks ago. Not so fortunate last night.


https://twitter.com/JessicaRedfield


One would hope this incident and its greater exposure into the final minutes of someone's life will somehow help spur serious gun control in this country.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:01 pm

JRM wrote:
guru wrote:Haunting twitter feed of one of the victims, who had escaped the Canadian mall shooting a few weeks ago. Not so fortunate last night.


https://twitter.com/JessicaRedfield


One would hope this incident and its greater exposure into the final minutes of someone's life will somehow help spur serious gun control in this country.


Yea, right. :roll:
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jeremyp » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:40 pm

JRM wrote:
guru wrote:Haunting twitter feed of one of the victims, who had escaped the Canadian mall shooting a few weeks ago. Not so fortunate last night.


https://twitter.com/JessicaRedfield


One would hope this incident and its greater exposure into the final minutes of someone's life will somehow help spur serious gun control in this country.


From Adam Gopnik, The New Yorker http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/n ... sacre.html
The truth is made worse by the reality that no one—really no one—anywhere on the political spectrum has the courage to speak out about the madness of unleashed guns and what they do to American life. That includes the President, whose consoling message managed to avoid the issue of why these killings take place. Of course, we don’t know, and perhaps never will, what exactly “made him” do what he did; but we know how he did it. Those who fight for the right of every madman and every criminal to have as many people-killing weapons as they want share moral responsibility for what happened last night—as they will when it happens again. And it will happen again.

The reality is simple: every country struggles with madmen and ideologues with guns, and every country—Canada, Norway, Britain—has had a gun massacre once, or twice. Then people act to stop them, and they do—as over the past few years has happened in Australia. Only in America are gun massacres of this kind routine, expectable, and certain to continue. Does anyone even remember any longer last July’s gun massacre, those birthday-party killings in Texas, when an estranged husband murdered his wife and most of her family, leaving six dead?
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Marlow » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:46 pm

no one—really no one—anywhere on the political spectrum has the courage to speak out about the madness of unleashed guns and what they do to American life. . . . we know how he did it. Those who fight for the right of every madman and every criminal to have as many people-killing weapons as they want share moral responsibility for what happened last night—as they will when it happens again. And it will happen again.

Exactly how I feel. One of the best friends of my life was gunned done by a lunatic with an AK-47 that he bought over the counter in the 30 minutes it took for him to fill out the paperwork. Coward that he was, there's no way he had the guts to do it with anything except a gun that he could easily buy.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby IanS_Liv » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:13 pm

I've never visited the US so this kind of thing is very alien to me. The shooter was dressed in kevlar amour, had military-grade weapons and some kind of tear gas? Why would this kind of stuff be on sale to the general public?

I don't get it.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby JRM » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:23 pm

IanS_Liv wrote:I've never visited the US so this kind of thing is very alien to me. The shooter was dressed in kevlar amour, had military-grade weapons and some kind of tear gas? Why would this kind of stuff be on sale to the general public?

I don't get it.


We need to defend ourselves against the tyranny of the King of England.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Cooter Brown » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:45 am

IanS_Liv wrote:I've never visited the US so this kind of thing is very alien to me. The shooter was dressed in kevlar amour, had military-grade weapons and some kind of tear gas? Why would this kind of stuff be on sale to the general public?

I don't get it.


The worst of it is that many are already saying that if there were some patrons with concealed carry licenses in the theater, no one would've been killed other than the killer. More guns for everybody!!!
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:53 am

JRM wrote:
guru wrote:Haunting twitter feed of one of the victims, who had escaped the Canadian mall shooting a few weeks ago. Not so fortunate last night.


https://twitter.com/JessicaRedfield


One would hope this incident and its greater exposure into the final minutes of someone's life will somehow help spur serious gun control in this country.

Don't Canada and Norway have strict gun control laws? The bottom line is that no law can stop a determined nutjob. By the way, I thought free speech weekend was a couple of weeks ago.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:00 am

Marlow wrote:
no one—really no one—anywhere on the political spectrum has the courage to speak out about the madness of unleashed guns and what they do to American life. . . . we know how he did it. Those who fight for the right of every madman and every criminal to have as many people-killing weapons as they want share moral responsibility for what happened last night—as they will when it happens again. And it will happen again.

Exactly how I feel. One of the best friends of my life was gunned done by a lunatic with an AK-47 that he bought over the counter in the 30 minutes it took for him to fill out the paperwork. Coward that he was, there's no way he had the guts to do it with anything except a gun that he could easily buy.

I feel for your loss, but I couldn't disagree more with your conclusion. I don't know if your friend was the victim of a random shooter or someone he knew personally, but there are no gun laws that can stop a determined killer. When the government takes away our freedoms (eg. gun control, Patriot Act, NDAA, etc), we lose in the long run.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Marlow » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:46 am

jazzcyclist wrote:there are no gun laws that can stop a determined killer. When the government takes away our freedoms (eg. gun control, Patriot Act, NDAA, etc), we lose in the long run.

This is not worth debating - everyone has made up their minds - but many (most?) 'determined killers' are that only in their minds. They wouldn't have the guts to follow through on their feelings if it weren't as simple as squeezing the trigger of a gun. Guns are not a 'freedom', they are murder instruments that take away our freedoms. That's just how I feel (extremely strongly); I understand you can't see it that way.

This thread, about the joys of entertainment, has gone bad. It can be deleted if management sees fit. Guns play a major role in the movie (which sane people can differentiate from reality), but the whole thing has been horrifically corrupted by a very ill young man who had too easy access to his weapons.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Cooter Brown » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:04 am

What I've found interesting was his mom's initial reaction that she wasn't surprised it was him. She obviously knew he was dangerous but there's nothing you can do about until something horrific happens.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:08 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:there are no gun laws that can stop a determined killer. When the government takes away our freedoms (eg. gun control, Patriot Act, NDAA, etc), we lose in the long run.

This is not worth debating - everyone has made up their minds - but many (most?) 'determined killers' are that only in their minds. They wouldn't have the guts to follow through on their feelings if it weren't as simple as squeezing the trigger of a gun. Guns are not a 'freedom', they are murder instruments that take away our freedoms. That's just how I feel (extremely strongly); I understand you can't see it that way.

But what you don't understand is that there's no way to stop someone from getting guns if he's determined, otherwise these things wouldn't happen in other nations with draconian gun control laws. That would be even more true in the U.S. where there are already millions of guns in circulation. As for what he would have had "the guts to follow through on" if it "weren't as simple as squeezing the trigger of a gun", neither you nor I can possibly know, although both of us can give idol speculation to support our viewpoints. As Timothy McVeigh proved, there are plenty of ways to kill people without guns.

FYI, acetone, which can be purchased by the gallon at your local hardware store, is an unregulated chemical and so is peroxide.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:21 am

IanS_Liv wrote:I've never visited the US so this kind of thing is very alien to me. The shooter was dressed in kevlar amour, had military-grade weapons and some kind of tear gas? Why would this kind of stuff be on sale to the general public?

I don't get it.


A lot of us here, don't either. Absolutely no one needs any of that shit. And the same with automatic weapons. Absolutely nothing to do with gun control.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby gh » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:36 am

jazz cyclist wrote:...there are no gun laws that can stop a determined killer. ....


That is correct, but one can certainly make it harder to be a mass killer.

I would argue (as somebody who has 5 guns in his house by the way, and started shooting at age 4, so I'm no anti-gun nut) that nobody needs a fully auto AK47 with a 30-round clip.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jeremyp » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:52 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
JRM wrote:
guru wrote:Haunting twitter feed of one of the victims, who had escaped the Canadian mall shooting a few weeks ago. Not so fortunate last night.


https://twitter.com/JessicaRedfield


One would hope this incident and its greater exposure into the final minutes of someone's life will somehow help spur serious gun control in this country.

Don't Canada and Norway have strict gun control laws? The bottom line is that no law can stop a determined nutjob. By the way, I thought free speech weekend was a couple of weeks ago.

No laws can stop it happening but laws can reduce the incidents and limit the options that allow this to be too easy in the U.S. It happened in Norway on a horrific scale but I doubt it will happen there again for quite a while.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jeremyp » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:57 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Marlow wrote:
no one—really no one—anywhere on the political spectrum has the courage to speak out about the madness of unleashed guns and what they do to American life. . . . we know how he did it. Those who fight for the right of every madman and every criminal to have as many people-killing weapons as they want share moral responsibility for what happened last night—as they will when it happens again. And it will happen again.

Exactly how I feel. One of the best friends of my life was gunned done by a lunatic with an AK-47 that he bought over the counter in the 30 minutes it took for him to fill out the paperwork. Coward that he was, there's no way he had the guts to do it with anything except a gun that he could easily buy.

I feel for your loss, but I couldn't disagree more with your conclusion. I don't know if your friend was the victim of a random shooter or someone he knew personally, but there are no gun laws that can stop a determined killer. When the government takes away our freedoms (eg. gun control, Patriot Act, NDAA, etc), we lose in the long run.


Why do we need the freedom to acquire automatic weapons? Why do we need the freedom to acquire gas grenades, kevlar vests? Our "freedoms" need to be sensibly applied.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Marlow » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:57 am

jazzcyclist wrote:But what you don't understand

This has nothing to do with 'understanding'; it has everything to do with 'deciding' . . . choices individuals make, choices that societies make . . .

jazzcyclist wrote:is that there's no way to stop someone from getting guns if he's determined, otherwise these things wouldn't happen in other nations with draconian gun control laws.

The fact that these sorts of things happen at a highly significant LOWER rate in countries with stricter gun control laws proves that the harder we make it to get guns, the better off we'd all be.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Vince » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:41 am

As people have already stated, minds are already made up about the gun issue in the U.S. My belief is that the problem is not the implement, but a breakdown of peoples core values. Think of a typical American Amish kid as compared to a typical suburban American kid during the last 50 yrs. The more's both have are vastly different. The worst thing you might expect from the Amish kid is that he might go mad and attack his neighbor by cutting off his beard, but the suburban kid with an advanced degree goes and shoots up a theater. Violence has permeated society including the films we watch. The Dark Knight was extremely graphic and violent. Why aren't we outraged at the people who profit from these films? Are we so bored with our lives that we need this stuff. Parents buy their kids extremely graphic and violent video games...WTF nobody cares. The only way to stop these things from happening is to change our culture and I don't see that happening anytime soon.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:05 am

gh wrote:
jazz cyclist wrote:...there are no gun laws that can stop a determined killer. ....


That is correct, but one can certainly make it harder to be a mass killer.

I would argue (as somebody who has 5 guns in his house by the way, and started shooting at age 4, so I'm no anti-gun nut) that nobody needs a fully auto AK47 with a 30-round clip.

Automatic weapons have been strictly reguilated since 1968. You can't just go down to your local gunshop and buy one a whim.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby kuha » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:06 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:But what you don't understand

This has nothing to do with 'understanding'; it has everything to do with 'deciding' . . . choices individuals make, choices that societies make . . .

jazzcyclist wrote:is that there's no way to stop someone from getting guns if he's determined, otherwise these things wouldn't happen in other nations with draconian gun control laws.

The fact that these sorts of things happen at a highly significant LOWER rate in countries with stricter gun control laws proves that the harder we make it to get guns, the better off we'd all be.


For what it's worth, I'm 100% with Marlow et al on this. The logical gap between "a well regulated militia" and easy access to assault weapons is absurd and obscene.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Marlow » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:10 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Automatic weapons have been strictly reguilated since 1968. You can't just go down to your local gunshop and buy one a whim.

As I said, you can buy an AK-47 in half an hour here.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby odelltrclan » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:17 am

Vince wrote:As people have already stated, minds are already made up about the gun issue in the U.S. My belief is that the problem is not the implement, but a breakdown of peoples core values. Think of a typical American Amish kid as compared to a typical suburban American kid during the last 50 yrs. The more's both have are vastly different. The worst thing you might expect from the Amish kid is that he might go mad and attack his neighbor by cutting off his beard, but the suburban kid with an advanced degree goes and shoots up a theater. Violence has permeated society including the films we watch. The Dark Knight was extremely graphic and violent. Why aren't we outraged at the people who profit from these films? Are we so bored with our lives that we need this stuff. Parents buy their kids extremely graphic and violent video games...WTF nobody cares. The only way to stop these things from happening is to change our culture and I don't see that happening anytime soon.



I am with you on this. How long have we had access to guns in society? Why is this BECOMING a problem? Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Society despite (or perhaps because of) all it "progressivism" is losing core values as you noted. There is more devisiveness than ever. If you were to be able to take all the guns away you may limit some of these types of incidents, but there will likely be other types of manifestations of this behavior, and, as a whole, I doubt the number of killings in this country would change.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:18 am

jeremyp wrote:Why do we need the freedom to acquire automatic weapons?

As I said in my previous post, buying automatic weapons is very, very difficult and very expensive. It's probably easier to buy a semi-automatic weapon in the U.K than it is to buy an automatic weapon in the U.S. I can tell you this from personal experience.

jeremyp wrote:kevlar vests?

Why not? What harm can a nutjob inflict on someone with a kevlar vest? I think purely defensive items like this should be totally unregulated. How many people would have survived the shooting if they had been wearing one?
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:19 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Automatic weapons have been strictly reguilated since 1968. You can't just go down to your local gunshop and buy one a whim.

As I said, you can buy an AK-47 in half an hour here.

Not an automatic AK-47.
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