[London DL: m800—]Symmonds not invited

[Mighty Favog]

From Nick Symmonds' twitter, posted 4 hours ago:

"London DL meeting begins tonight! I was gonna race the 800 but the meet director, Ian Stewart, called me "a liability" lol. #TheIrritant"

For those not in the know, Stewart is married to Stephanie Hightower, who had a public dustup w/ Symmonds at December's USATF convention. Not necessarily why Stewart did not invite Symmonds, but a relationship that cannot be ignored.

Discuss.

[nicest person ever]

I hadn't heard of this "dust up" before, but now I'm curious lol

Does a "dust up" mean a fight? Or does it mean like a hookup/date/kissing/sex/something like that?

[guru]

I hadn't heard of this "dust up" before, but now I'm curious lol

Does a "dust up" mean a fight? Or does it mean like a hookup/date/kissing/sex/something like that?

Much, much worse lol

[bushop]

Nick Symmonds
July 13 4:30 p.m. PST
For those of you wondering why I am not racing in tomorrow's London Diamond League 800m: I was told by the meet director, Ian Stewart, that I am "a liability" and that I am not allowed to race in any of his meetings. Apparently, he told the same thing to Lolo Jones, one of the most popular athletes in the world of Athletics. People like Mr. Stewart have very antiquated ideas about how the sport of Track and Field should be governed and are holding our sport back. Fortunately, most meet directors do not share his myopic opinions. Therefore, instead of racing at cold, rainy Crystal Palace (London), I will be racing on one of the fastest tracks in one of the most beautiful places in the world on July 20th. MONACO 800m!!!

Nick Symmonds FB page

[fourjz]

So what's Stewart's antiquated veiws on Track competitions ?

[26mi235]

Like the old AAU, if you don't do it the way we want you cannot compete?

[IanS_Liv]

What was the dust up about?

I've never met Stewart, but he does come across as an 'old school', no-nonsense type.

[gh]

I'm not much of a fan of conspiracy theories, but when I look at this field I do have trouble figuring why there wasn't a place for Symmonds in it, unless his agent had a misguided sense of what his asking price should be.

1 1 KIPLAGAT Richard
2 2 CENTROWITZ Matthew
2 3 GREER Elijah
3 4 WARBURTON Gareth
4 5 KINYOR Job
4 6 MOHAMMED Mukhtar
5 7 OSAGIE Andrew
6 8 KSZCZOT Adam
6 9 LALANG Boaz Kiplagat
7 10 KAKI Abubaker
8 SCHERER Matthew
8 RUTT Michael


[KevinM]

I'm more of a fan of Symmonds's consistency and racing than his absurd/embarassing approach to "publicizing" himself (and the sport, supposedly), but if true, Stewart looks far more ridiculous here.

[bushop]

What was the dust up about?
I've never met Stewart, but he does come across as an 'old school', no-nonsense type.

From my experience, most 'old school' is full of self-important, idiotic nonsense.

[Mighty Favog]

Lolo Jones indicated via Twitter that she was also not welcome. Chris Solinsky indicated Schumacher's whole group isn't either. The latter I can credit not to any particular politics or disagreements but being just too darned good.

According to USATF.org, Symmonds' agent is Chris Layne of Total Sports Management. Stewart managed to find spots for every other US Olympian he represents whose event is on the schedule: Carmelita Jeter, Geena Gall and Jason Richardson.

[Flumpy]

I'm more of a fan of Symmonds's consistency and racing than his absurd/embarassing approach to "publicizing" himself (and the sport, supposedly), but if true, Stewart looks far more ridiculous here.

How on earth does Ian Stewart look 'ridiculous' by not having some journeyman 800m runner in his race if he doesn't want him. The British public couldn't care less if Nick Symmonds is in the race or not and whatever Stewart's motive it's entirely his prerogative to choose who he wants to run.

Presumeably he won't want to compete in 'cold, rainy' London in a couple of weeks either.

[user4]

What was the dust up about?
I've never met Stewart, but he does come across as an 'old school', no-nonsense type.

From my experience, most 'old school' is full of self-important, idiotic nonsense.

my experience is that most "old school" methods are consistent and farsighted. They tend to have an experience base that spans more than a few decades, they have seen more and so they are able to maintain the best innovations and ignore the useless fads.

[donley2]

How on earth does Ian Stewart look 'ridiculous' by not having some journeyman 800m runner in his race if he doesn't want him. The British public couldn't care less if Nick Symmonds is in the race or not and whatever Stewart's motive it's entirely his prerogative to choose who he wants to run.

Let's extend that logic to its logical conclusion. Without Rudisha in the race does anyone even care if there is a mens 800 meter race?

[KevinM]

The British public couldn't care less if Nick Symmonds is in the race or not and whatever Stewart's motive it's entirely his prerogative to choose who he wants to run.

Really? "Whatever Stewart's motive"? It's not ridiculous if a pissing match with the promoter's wife leads to a DL meet telling a guy who has been ranked top-10 in the world for the last 3 years he's unwelcome?

[bushop]

What was the dust up about?
I've never met Stewart, but he does come across as an 'old school', no-nonsense type.

From my experience, most 'old school' is full of self-important, idiotic nonsense.

my experience is that most "old school" methods are consistent and farsighted. They tend to have an experience base that spans more than a few decades, they have seen more and so they are able to maintain the best innovations and ignore the useless fads.

As far as sport (and business) goes I do not see a single organization that has operated with an 'old school' mentality stayed successful... by definition an innovation would not be 'old school' ( I think?).

[Mighty Favog]

I was working from memory about the USATF Convention and made a few mistakes. Now I've done my homework and got some things straightened out.

At the famously contentious Athletes Advisory Council meeting on December 2...

Hightower did not specifically yell at Symmonds, she yelled at everyone. Sandra Farmer-Patrick is the one who blew up at Symmonds.

I had forgotten that Ian Stewart spoke at the meeting. Among the things he reportedly said:
"you say you're professionals; act like it."
"If you think you're gonna walk into one of our track meets wearing Axer across your chest, it's not gonna happen."

Not sure if any of this has inherent meaning, but I thought the information should be shared.

[bushop]

At the famously contentious Athletes Advisory Council meeting on December 2...

Hightower did not specifically yell at Symmonds, she yelled at everyone. Sandra Farmer-Patrick is the one who blew up at Symmonds. I had forgotten that Ian Stewart spoke at the meeting. Among the things he reportedly said:
"you say you're professionals; act like it."
"If you think you're gonna walk into one of our track meets wearing Axer across your chest, it's not gonna happen."

Okay, question... who will make more money in our sport this year?
• Stephanie Hightower
• Sandra Farmer-Patrick
• Ian Stewart
• Nick Symmonds
• the average US Olympic athlete

[Mighty Favog]

This is getting waaaaay off topic, but I would say that's the wrong question. If you want to make a lot of money (and your name is not Usain Bolt) you do something other than track and field.

When there is a financial motivation in T&F it's usually related to simply being able to stay in the sport. The entire TFN staff can attest to that. Our other major story of the day is about an aging 400m runner who found a way to stay in T&F but is now most definitely out of it, probably forever (at least at the elite level). If she violated the rules only at the end of her career (in order to extend it) she would hardly be the first to do so.

Athletes know there's a time when it will all be over. Administrators have a much longer shelf life and too many of them guard it jealously. This has been true for well over a century and spans every sport at every level. That may or may not be true for those mentioned here, but the topic that started this all raises suspicions.

[bushop]

This is getting waaaaay off topic...

I think the Symmonds' issue, and what he is blacklisted for, is exactly what you're talking about.

[Blues]

The British public couldn't care less if Nick Symmonds is in the race or not and whatever Stewart's motive it's entirely his prerogative to choose who he wants to run.

Really? "Whatever Stewart's motive"? It's not ridiculous if a pissing match with the promoter's wife leads to a DL meet telling a guy who has been ranked top-10 in the world for the last 3 years he's unwelcome?

And to add to that, what if Symmonds wasn't tied for 8th place with 1 point in the Diamond League standings, but instead had a better chance of winning the DL championship and the $40,000, the diamond trophy, and the World Championships wildcard that come with it? Does Stewart have the right to deny an athlete the chance to earn possible Diamond League points because of some personal grudge?

[gibson]

I had forgotten that Ian Stewart spoke at the meeting. Among the things he reportedly said:
"you say you're professionals; act like it."
"If you think you're gonna walk into one of our track meets wearing Axer across your chest, it's not gonna happen.

"

This quote says it all or WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD TODAY

No doubt there is a place for the american 800m champ in london. and it is nearly a sure thing that the organizers with a vendetta (see quote above) would not pay market price for the athlete in question, so off to Monico Nick goes. they'll be able to say, hey we're fair, we don't have anything against any athlete.... bla bla bla

OK - In his own words, Ian Stewart and Co own the track meets / federations (same same) and athletes, coaches must bow down to HIS- THEIR authority or else.

under this setup - guys like nick - are the enemy - and need to be dominated and crushed sports like. you know, to get that gold = mid six figure check in that purse.

probably ian stewart and love hightower think of themselves as able gooders , but i see the same old delusional selfish carear builders.

[gh]

I was working from memory about the USATF Convention and made a few mistakes. Now I've done my homework and got some things straightened out.

At the famously contentious Athletes Advisory Council meeting on December 2...

Hightower did not specifically yell at Symmonds, she yelled at everyone. Sandra Farmer-Patrick is the one who blew up at Symmonds.

I had forgotten that Ian Stewart spoke at the meeting. Among the things he reportedly said:
"you say you're professionals; act like it."
"If you think you're gonna walk into one of our track meets wearing Axer across your chest, it's not gonna happen."

Not sure if any of this has inherent meaning, but I thought the information should be shared.

Unfortunately, people now read your first post and word "vendetta" is being thrown about when in reality there was no Hightower-Symmonds kerfluffle to begin with. So Stewart has a vendetta against Symmonds why?

[ExCoastRanger]

What does he mean by "a liability?"

Kerfluffle. Ha. Funny word.

[IanS_Liv]

Sorry, Brit here. What is "Axer"? Our international meetings are heavily sponsored by Aviva Insurance. Clashes over display of sponsors' logos are common enough. Wasn't Symmonds the one offering to wear tattoos of sponsors?

We're only able to host GP's because of sponsorship money, so I could understand meet directors not wanting to upset them.

I personally don't mind athletes having a number of sponsors on their vests, but I don't know whether Nike or Adidas would appreciate it.

[mump boy]

I'm confused, do people on here who take umbrage with Simmonds not being invited, believe that every athlete who wants to take part has the right to do so ??

There is a limited amount of money available (you might note a number of rather thin fields and some LOADED ones) and pressure form sponsors, public, tv, agents etc etc what does what does Nick Simmonds bring to the party that is so important that we should be upset he's not running ??

Being the US 800m champ will not put one extra bum on a seat or viewer on tv, this is the ultimate aim of any promoter.

If Simmonds want to guarantee invitation to EVERY meeting he wishes to compete in, he needs to win something rather more significant than the US champs

[fourjz]

I was working from memory about the USATF Convention and made a few mistakes. Now I've done my homework and got some things straightened out.

At the famously contentious Athletes Advisory Council meeting on December 2...

Hightower did not specifically yell at Symmonds, she yelled at everyone. Sandra Farmer-Patrick is the one who blew up at Symmonds.

I had forgotten that Ian Stewart spoke at the meeting. Among the things he reportedly said:
"you say you're professionals; act like it."
"If you think you're gonna walk into one of our track meets wearing Axer across your chest, it's not gonna happen."

Not sure if any of this has inherent meaning, but I thought the information should be shared.

Just curious,Why would Sandra Farmer-Patrick blow up on any athlete ?

[jjimbojames]

If Simmonds want to guarantee invitation to EVERY meeting he wishes to compete in, he needs to win something rather more significant than the US champs

This. Next he'll be claiming restraint of trade...

[Randy Treadway]

I had forgotten that Ian Stewart spoke at the meeting. Among the things he reportedly said:
"If you think you're gonna walk into one of our track meets wearing Axer across your chest, it's not gonna happen."

Okay, so I did a google search to try to find out what Axer is, and I still don't have a clue. The guy must be an idiot. I remember when he was a decent athlete himself, way, way back.

[Randy Treadway]

If Simmonds want to guarantee invitation to EVERY meeting he wishes to compete in, he needs to win something rather more significant than the US champs

The US champs- in particular the US Trials version, which happens only once every 4 years- is tough enough in most events that winning there should get you into most Diamond League events.... unless maybe it's a Steeple that's already packed with Kenyans and Ethiopians.

I didn't see anything particularly over-talent-laden about the London 800.

I think maybe the time has come for the IAAF to take over the selection process- not for these entire meets- but for the Diamond League events. Admission standards should be defined. It also means IAAF would take over the appearance fees in those Diamond League events... and one would think that those could be defined by some kind of standards as well, so that 'negotiating' is not even necessary. Overall meet promoters would simply pay a significant franchise fee to the IAAF to have Diamond status, and this in turn provides IAAF the funds for the athlete fees.

I know, this proposal would turn the top end of the sport on its head. Maybe it's needed.

[Mighty Favog]

If I understand things correctly, this kind of stuff is exactly why tennis' ATP was organized.

[gh]

...
The US champs- in particular the US Trials version, which happens only once every 4 years- is tough enough in most events that winning there should get you into most Diamond League events.... ...

There's a hilariously U.S.-centric view of the universe.

[Randy Treadway]

...
The US champs- in particular the US Trials version, which happens only once every 4 years- is tough enough in most events that winning there should get you into most Diamond League events.... ...

There's a hilariously U.S.-centric view of the universe.

I'm happy to go off a trend line of times and marks and leave "wins" out of the equation completely. Scherer and Centrowitz are in the London 800. Come on. They should be in the "B" race. So there was PLENTY of space for Symmonds.

What we're hearing are just anecdotes and tweets that leave a WHOLE lot out, but we're hearing that Stewart refused to even negotiate appearance fee at ALL with Symmonds. That may or may not be true. If it was Symmonds who walked away because they couldn't agree on fee, fine... but simply Stewart saying 'not in MY meet, never, no way Jose'........I know that's exactly how promoters work, but it stinks. The athletes need a union. But in this case, I'm not sure how much support, if any, Symmonds gets from other athletes. Maybe they hate his guts too... I don't know.

[ATK]

what does what does Nick Simmonds bring to the party that is so important that we should be upset he's not running ??

Being the US 800m champ will not put one extra bum on a seat or viewer on tv, this is the ultimate aim of any promoter.

If Simmonds want to guarantee invitation to EVERY meeting he wishes to compete in, he needs to win something rather more significant than the US champs

Can you explain to me what Elijah Greer has done that gives him a lane over Symmonds?

[DecFan]

My completely uninformed guess about what happened: Symmonds asked for an appearance fee that he and his agent thought was quite reasonable, that he had received for other meets, and Stewart told him he wasn't worth any appearance fee. Symmonds, offended, then walked away and sent out tweets.