About That London US Women's 4x100


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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Pego » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:34 am

As much as I like Lauryn Williams, to take her instead of Kim Duncan seems incomprehensible.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:10 am

reggaemon wrote:I think Jamaica need to neutralise Allyson Felix on that 2nd leg..My 4x 100 would be Sherone to SAF to VCB and then Kerron Stewart..I think although Sherone isn't what she used to be, I can't see the USA first leg runner blowing her away, SAF would be effective on that back stretch against AF, VCB would blow away their 3rd leg runner and I don't Jeter atthis point in time have much on Kerron Stewart to reel her in... I see Madison starting for the USA to AF, maybe Bianca Knight because of her experience as a good curve runner and the to Jeter...guys what you think about that matchup?


Sherone can't run the curve and is a horrible starter on the curve as well while Madison is a GREAT starter and a SUPERB curve runner (she decimated SS on that leg at Penns). That would therefore leave VCB/KS/SAFP to start.

VCB needs to be stuck on 3rd...

KS is arguably a worse curve runner than Sherone and simply has not run enough 200's lately to be any sort of notable mention where that is concerned.

SAFP is an excellent starter and one of the best female curve runners of all time bar none.

The race can be lost from 1st leg, 2nd leg, 3rd leg or 4th... I don't think the concern needs to be 'neutralizing' anyone but running the best team in the positions that most suit their strengths.

SAFP/Madison = Starters
SS/Felix = Backstretch (check SS's runs in at trials especially the 200 finals and the way she handled Marion Jones in 2008)
VCB/BK = 3rd leg is perfect for them
Jeter/KS = anchors
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:16 am

I'm almost certain that VCB will always run anchor for Jamaica, so you could work the team around that.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:26 am

ATK wrote:I'm almost certain that VCB will always run anchor for Jamaica, so you could work the team around that.


If Coach Wilson has his way (which I hope he does) egos will definitely not come into play this time around and he'll stick her on 3rd seeing that the other women are showing some form. This is not 2011 where everyone except her and to a lesser extent SAFP were showing much form. Nor should this turn out like 2009 where they choose not to give her practice on 3rd.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Z89 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:18 am

I concur with several people who think that Kimberlyn Duncan's omission is a travesty. Incomprehensible! She had the 3rd fastest 100 time this year for an American, and it wasn't a fluke performance, either. She has run in the 11.0-range many other times this year in college. She came in 4th in the 200 among an extremely strong women's 200 pool. She ran more 4x100 relays this year as part of LSU's track team (and ran some 4x200's) than any other female American athlete. I would have taken her just for her relay experience and baton passing skills. Plus she is consistently faster than Knight or Williams.

The women's 4x100 team selection makes me think that there is some hard-and-fast rule that says "though shalt take the top six 100m places at the US Olympic Trials, period." Are there any written rules regarding team selection, or do they allow for human judgement? In this case, it appears some written rule was followed, rather than sound judgement.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:27 pm

noxeht12 wrote:
ATK wrote:I'm almost certain that VCB will always run anchor for Jamaica, so you could work the team around that.


If Coach Wilson has his way (which I hope he does) egos will definitely not come into play this time around and he'll stick her on 3rd seeing that the other women are showing some form. This is not 2011 where everyone except her and to a lesser extent SAFP were showing much form. Nor should this turn out like 2009 where they choose not to give her practice on 3rd.

2004,2005,2007,2008, 2011 she ran anchor.

She is running anchor in London.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:30 pm

Z89 wrote:I would have taken her just for her relay experience and baton passing skills.

I agree, even if they didn't use her in London at all, she looks to be the future of the sprints, and with some one like Lauren Williams already declining, and this probably being Jeter's first and only Olympics, she could have gained experience for what she almost certainly will be doing for the next 8 years or so.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:52 pm

ATK wrote:
noxeht12 wrote:
ATK wrote:I'm almost certain that VCB will always run anchor for Jamaica, so you could work the team around that.


If Coach Wilson has his way (which I hope he does) egos will definitely not come into play this time around and he'll stick her on 3rd seeing that the other women are showing some form. This is not 2011 where everyone except her and to a lesser extent SAFP were showing much form. Nor should this turn out like 2009 where they choose not to give her practice on 3rd.

2004,2005,2007,2008, 2011 she ran anchor.

She is running anchor in London.

All the years you cited she was the best choice for anchor thinking of the team we had and who we were up against.... It's different now... and I hope the powers that be sees that. If they want to win... relegate her to 3rd leg.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:55 pm

noxeht12 wrote:
ATK wrote:
noxeht12 wrote:
ATK wrote:I'm almost certain that VCB will always run anchor for Jamaica, so you could work the team around that.


If Coach Wilson has his way (which I hope he does) egos will definitely not come into play this time around and he'll stick her on 3rd seeing that the other women are showing some form. This is not 2011 where everyone except her and to a lesser extent SAFP were showing much form. Nor should this turn out like 2009 where they choose not to give her practice on 3rd.

2004,2005,2007,2008, 2011 she ran anchor.

She is running anchor in London.

All the years you cited she was the best choice for anchor thinking of the team we had and who we were up against.... It's different now... and I hope the powers that be sees that. If they want to win... relegate her to 3rd leg.

2008-2011 jamaica has pretty much had the same team.
They ran a national record last year, with a sub par leg from SS. I would like to see VCB on the curve, but Im 99% sure she will run anchor.
In 2009 didn't she not run the relay because they wanted her to run the curve but she said she will only run anchor?...
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby gh » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:56 pm

I could swear this thread is titled US 4x1.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:03 pm

gh wrote:I could swear this thread is titled US 4x1.

Considering it wouldn't make sense to create a thread for every country's relay team, I also think the conversation here is relevant to the US ladies. Since the Jamaican 4x1 is the closest competition, it seems as if the discussion sprouted from how can the US match up with the Jamaican ladies.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:06 pm

Z89 wrote:The women's 4x100 team selection makes me think that there is some hard-and-fast rule that says "though shalt take the top six 100m places at the US Olympic Trials, period." Are there any written rules regarding team selection, or do they allow for human judgement? In this case, it appears some written rule was followed, rather than sound judgement.


FYI, in 1996, D'Andre Hill finished second at the trials with a time of 10.92 and was left off the 4x100 team. The answer given to her and her coaches back then was that she didn't have enough relay experience despite being a member an LSU team that was the 4x100 NCAA champions all four years of her collegiate career. You do the math.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby gh » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:07 pm

ATK wrote:
gh wrote:I could swear this thread is titled US 4x1.

Considering it wouldn't make sense to create a thread for every country's relay team, I also think the conversation here is relevant to the US ladies. Since the Jamaican 4x1 is the closest competition, it seems as if the discussion sprouted from how can the US match up with the Jamaican ladies.


Then create a U.S. vs. Jamaica thread. It's free-speech weekend, you're allowed.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:14 pm

I see people writing such nonsense as "if they run that runner on third leg, we must counter by running this runner on third leg", "if they lead-off with this runner, we must counter by leading off with that runner". Here this: 4x100 relays are time trials, not tactical races. If you're worrying about what the other teams are doing, you've got problems.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:31 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:I see people writing such nonsense as "if they run that runner on third leg, we must counter by running this runner on third leg", "if they lead-off with this runner, we must counter by leading off with that runner". Here this: 4x100 relays are time trials, not tactical races. If you're worrying about what the other teams are doing, you've got problems.

To be clear I agree with you, each team should run legs to maximize the strengths of an athlete, not be better than the athlete on the same leg as them.

The argument I think is, overall the US ladies have to choose the fastest team to solidify victory.
Assuming Jamaica and the US have the same passing efficiency, it will be a very close race if the US does not choose the best line up.

Bianca Knight and even though she has run 3 relays with the US team (Daegu + Penn) I think Tarmoh can be just as if not more efficient with passes, and she is just overall faster.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby j-a-m » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:42 pm

Z89 wrote:I would have taken her just for her relay experience and baton passing skills

Agreed, there are many reasons why including K. Duncan would've been a good idea. If nothing else, she could run anchor in prelims, when Jeter and Felix are most likely saved for the finals.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Z89 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:12 pm

Well, it seems that there is uncertainty about the relay team selection. Another news source from Baton Rouge, LA, posted a story yesterday stating that Kimberlyn Duncan will be attending the upcoming relay camp and has a chance to make the team, and further states that the 6 members will be chosen on July 21st.

http://theadvocate.com/sports/3261612-3 ... mpson-lead

So, what is the real story? Most media sources stated yesterday that the relay team members have already been selected (and they did not include Duncan).

I have a passion for the relays and am hoping that Duncan makes the team because I think it would increase USA's chances of earning Gold. It's driving me nuts that there are differing stories out there...
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:14 am

Z89 wrote:I have a passion for the relays and am hoping that Duncan makes the team because I think it would increase USA's chances of earning Gold. It's driving me nuts that there are differing stories out there...

One thing to remember is that Duncan is the only top four finisher in any of the sprints who has no agent or shoe company lobbying on her behalf, and that the relays have always been about politics and not merit.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:04 pm

guru wrote:Everything just changed - Marshevet Hooker is pregnant.



I see Hooker is back in training. Anybody know when she gave birth and what she had(boy/girl)?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby toyracer » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:22 pm

guru wrote:
guru wrote:Everything just changed - Marshevet Hooker is pregnant.



I see Hooker is back in training. Anybody know when she gave birth and what she had(boy/girl)?


I believe she has a daughter.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:47 pm

Anyone know the status of Tianna Madison now that Rana Reider moved to the UK?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby fourjz » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:09 pm

Watched the 4x100 relay another 10-15 times saturday.Ha Ha !! :lol:
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:55 am

Well, now that Hooker is back training full speed ahead, it's gonna be REAL interesting to see how Drummond handles that 3rd leg if she's back at least running sub-11 next year(it would seem like a no-brainer, but...)
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:18 pm

guru wrote:Well, now that Hooker is back training full speed ahead, it's gonna be REAL interesting to see how Drummond handles that 3rd leg if she's back at least running sub-11 next year(it would seem like a no-brainer, but...)

Why is it a no-brainer given the fact that Bianca Knight has proven herself to be to most reliable baton handler on the team? There's no guarantee that the team would have run faster if someone with superior footspeed had run in place of Knight.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TrackFan4Ever » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:24 pm

Agreed! The bottom-line is that BK produced and at the same time made the comments of some look utterly stupid.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:21 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:Well, now that Hooker is back training full speed ahead, it's gonna be REAL interesting to see how Drummond handles that 3rd leg if she's back at least running sub-11 next year(it would seem like a no-brainer, but...)

Why is it a no-brainer given the fact that Bianca Knight has proven herself to be to most reliable baton handler on the team? There's no guarantee that the team would have run faster if someone with superior footspeed had run in place of Knight.



As Hooker proved in 2011, she's a damn solid stick herself. And had Madison version 2012 been leading off that Daegu 4x1, the WR would have gone down a year earlier.

And yeah, having a 10.89/10.76w who's at the top of her game on the 4x1 is a no-brainer.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:59 pm

guru wrote:As Hooker proved in 2011, she's a damn solid stick herself.

But not as solid as Knight was in London.
guru wrote:And had Madison version 2012 been leading off that Daegu 4x1, the WR would have gone down a year earlier.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. 2012 Madison couldn't have led off in Daegu, only 2011 Madison.
guru wrote:And yeah, having a 10.89/10.76w who's at the top of her game on the 4x1 is a no-brainer.

Only for folks who worhsip the false god of footspeed. I agree with folks who say that Knight hasn't lived up to her promise in open events, but in relays, she has performed superbly at the last two global championships. Why are you still hatin' on her?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:36 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:As Hooker proved in 2011, she's a damn solid stick herself.

But not as solid as Knight was in London.



I disagree. Knight split 10.43, getting gobbled by VCB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAfhf_u_QBI


As for Hooker in Daegu, well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYjUnoFVvtY



jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:And yeah, having a 10.89/10.76w who's at the top of her game on the 4x1 is a no-brainer.

Only for folks who worhsip the false god of footspeed. I agree with folks who say that Knight hasn't lived up to her promise in open events, but in relays, she has performed superbly at the last two global championships.


To her credit Knight done what's been asked of her. But make no mistake about it - Madison was a better pop in London than Knight was in Daegu, and Hooker was better in the three slot vice-versa. I'd love to see splits from Daegu to compare to the German numbers from London.


All that said, I had forgotten Drummond actually coaches Hooker, so I suspect if she finds her pre-pregnancy form she'll be where she deserves to be.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:43 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:As Hooker proved in 2011, she's a damn solid stick herself.

But not as solid as Knight was in London.

Huh?

How do you even measure that?
Saying Knight handled it better or worse is no more valid than saying Hooker was better or worse....
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Pego » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:33 am

As solid as Bianca was, I would say that a sub-11 Vette is a no-brainer.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Lord_Zanus » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:14 pm

Pego wrote:As solid as Bianca was, I would say that a sub-11 Vette is a no-brainer.


I get the impression that the guage for whether or not someone did well is based on how big of a fan you are and whether or not they got the stick around. Which seems to me to be the reason that who actually ran or runs faster is dismissed.
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