About That London US Women's 4x100


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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:16 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:This isn't all that difficult for me to understand. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but has it occured to anyone besides me that Adidas wants a face on the relay?

In the past they had some combination of BK, Corvette (pregnant) and AF who now runs for Nike. If Sanya and Jeter -who both run for Nike- are on it in London and Nike has already approached and secured Duncan...

I'll defer to Mars Blackmon for further analysis.

If by past do you mean last year? Because that's the first time Bianca and Hooker were on any international relay.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby DJG » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:31 am

Smoke wrote:I say we just take the winning 4x100 from NCAA and run them. They have had all year of practice, hand offs are crisp, and can over come the foot speed of VCB and SAF. Right?!

Stop it with the .... I will repeat this until someone gets it, flawed handoffs are as much about the race as is hitting a hurdle in a hurdle race. You train all the time to not have these things happen but they do. As far as the US mishaps the glaring problem that some of you love to ignore, is that the mishaps have not been the same! 2005, incoming runner does not release the stick, drop. 2009, all hand offs completed safely, UK protest for an EARLY hand off, which resulted due to a safe mark so we did not drop the stick, dq (on I think was bogus and wrong). 2011, incoming runner collides with opposing team, nothing to do with stick work at all. So upon further review this is just mental masturbation for you all. I can go back farther but we will find medals, and success. Further eroding the false perception that there is something wrong with our relay program. BTW, I have the same arguments with some of the folks in USATF that also believe we need some wide sweeping changes. Those changes that have been implemented, and produced last years mishap, but don't tell anyone. Oops, we are talking about the women. There is even less to draw on when we discuss when women relays. SMDH


Smoke, Thanks for clearing up "my false perception that there is something wrong with our relay program." That the US finds different ways to screw up each time is proof that the US relay program is rock solid. Speaking of going further back, the US men and women 4x1's combined have 5 gold and 2 silver medals from the last 16 opprtinities (OG's And WC's). Most due to exchange problems. If anyone at USATF is advocating "wide sweeping changes", I would love to know how they are going about that.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TrackDaddy » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:08 am

ATK wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:This isn't all that difficult for me to understand. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but has it occured to anyone besides me that Adidas wants a face on the relay?

In the past they had some combination of BK, Corvette (pregnant) and AF who now runs for Nike. If Sanya and Jeter -who both run for Nike- are on it in London and Nike has already approached and secured Duncan...

I'll defer to Mars Blackmon for further analysis.

If by past do you mean last year? Because that's the first time Bianca and Hooker were on any international relay.


Actually the point was that Adidas had THE face on the relay when they had AF, and at least A face (with Hooker/BK) after she left for Nike.

And now, without BK, they may have NO face.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:50 pm

SRR just stated in her press conference when asked about the relays that she's "definitely not thinking about the 4x1".
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Speedster » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:27 am

As a fan of the sport, I am disappointed that we won't get to see her run, but as a fan of SRR I understand her focus is elsewhere and she might spread herself too thin. Off a fly, she is probably one of the fastest in the US, up there with Jeter and Felix.

Madison/Felix/SRR/Jeter - with decent exchanges that's your WR team right there.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TrackDaddy » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:07 am

ATK wrote:SRR just stated in her press conference when asked about the relays that she's "definitely not thinking about the 4x1".


Just wait til the relay camps start after trials.

More people will be thinking about it then.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:09 am

TrackDaddy wrote:
ATK wrote:SRR just stated in her press conference when asked about the relays that she's "definitely not thinking about the 4x1".


Just wait til the relay camps start after trials.

More people will be thinking about it then.



The only guy that counts, isn't
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby gh » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:05 pm

gh wrote:Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.


bump
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:22 pm

gh wrote:
gh wrote:Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.


bump



Brother I hear you. If Tarmoh beats Knight again this weekend there may be a glimmer of hope that Drummond will pry open his mind on that 3-slot.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Pego » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:21 am

gh wrote:
gh wrote:Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.


bump


What about Duncan on third? Not too shabby, methinks.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:08 am

guru wrote:Brother I hear you. If Tarmoh beats Knight again this weekend there may be a glimmer of hope that Drummond will pry open his mind on that 3-slot.

I agree, and seeing as how Knight will probably be fighting for 5th anyway in the 200, I hope he reconsiders the favoritism he had before the trials.
Last edited by ATK on Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:40 pm

He gave her a big hug after he thought she'd beaten Felix and gotten 3rd. I think he was the first person she approached.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:08 pm

So with the 100 and the 200 concluded....

I think it is clear that the 4x100 team should either be....

Madison - Felix - Tarmoh - Jeter
OR
Madison - Felix - SRR - Jeter

BK should not be on that team....
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby asindc » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:01 am

Madison-Felix-Tarmoh-Jeter. Knight and Duncan as alternates.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:06 am

asindc wrote:Madison-Felix-Jarmoh-Jeter. Knight and Duncan as alternates.

Agreed that should be it.
Prelim will probably be Madison-Duncan-Tarmoh-Knight
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:22 am

noxeht12 wrote:So with the 100 and the 200 concluded....

I think it is clear that the 4x100 team should either be....

Madison - Felix - Tarmoh - Jeter
OR
Madison - Felix - SRR - Jeter

BK should not be on that team....


Sanya? On third leg? When she hasn't run a championship 4x100 in eight years? :?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby booond » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:30 am

SRR isn't quick enough for the job. Tarmoh ran well enough in both sprints to do the job.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby beebee » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:39 am

booond wrote:SRR isn't quick enough for the job. Tarmoh ran well enough in both sprints to do the job.



SRR(along with Felix, one of America's best and most experienced relay runners) isn't quick enough(despite a 10.89w earlier this year) and yet trounced Tarmoh in Saturday's packed women's OT 200 final.

Comic relief :lol:
Last edited by beebee on Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:49 am

beebee wrote:
booond wrote:SRR isn't quick enough for the job. Tarmoh ran well enough in both sprints to do the job.



SRR isn't quick enough(a 10.89w earlier this year) and yet trounced Tarmoh in Saturday's packed women's OT 200 final.

Comic relief :lol:


I agree with you here. The only concern is trusting SRR to do a 200, 400, 4x100 and 4x400 quadruple... >_<
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:24 am

noxeht12 wrote:I agree with you here. The only concern is trusting SRR to do a 200, 400, 4x100 and 4x400 quadruple... >_<

Sanya's footspeed isn't the question. The question is where do you put her. Do you know for a fact that she can handle the baton on the second or third legs? Those are the critical legs IMO. You need good hands there. Don't make the mistake of worshipping the false god of footspeed.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby freddie » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:38 am

noxeht12 wrote:
beebee wrote:
booond wrote:SRR isn't quick enough for the job. Tarmoh ran well enough in both sprints to do the job.



SRR isn't quick enough(a 10.89w earlier this year) and yet trounced Tarmoh in Saturday's packed women's OT 200 final.

Comic relief :lol:


I agree with you here. The only concern is trusting SRR to do a 200, 400, 4x100 and 4x400 quadruple... >_<


Give me a tired SRR over a fresh, uncompetitive, and potentially litigous Tarmoh every time. At least I know SRR will give her best. At this point, i do not want Tarmoh anywhere near this team.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby j-a-m » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:40 pm

Relay pool now announced, as linked on the front page; includes BK and Lauryn Williams.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:07 pm

What happened to Duncan?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby j-a-m » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:14 pm

ATK wrote:What happened to Duncan?

It seems they just took the #5 and #6 in the 100, same on the men's side, same for both 400s. Here it leaves out Duncan, which doesn't make any sense. In addition to her speed she also has recent experience running on the LSU relay.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:21 am

Think the same line up sticks from Penns?

Madison - Felix - BK - Jeter
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:26 am

noxeht12 wrote:Think the same line up sticks from Penns?

Madison - Felix - BK - Jeter



Knight? May I gently remind you of the results of the Jamaican 100m Olympic Trials


1 Fraser-Pryce, Shelly-Ann Unattached 10.70 0.6
2 Campbell-Brown, Veronica Unattached 10.82 0.6
3 Stewart, Kerron Unattached 10.94 0.6
4 Simpson, Sherone Mvp Track Club 11.01 0.6


If the US has an 11.14 in the lineup, they lose. It's just that simple.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:53 am

guru wrote:
noxeht12 wrote:Think the same line up sticks from Penns?

Madison - Felix - BK - Jeter



Knight? May I gently remind you of the results of the Jamaican 100m Olympic Trials


1 Fraser-Pryce, Shelly-Ann Unattached 10.70 0.6
2 Campbell-Brown, Veronica Unattached 10.82 0.6
3 Stewart, Kerron Unattached 10.94 0.6
4 Simpson, Sherone Mvp Track Club 11.01 0.6


If the US has an 11.14 in the lineup, they lose. It's just that simple.


Good enough baton passes and great synergy can do wonders... As great as JA's footspeed is they can go very wrong if the legs aren't distributed to their optimum ability and it depends A LOT right now IMHO in Kerron getting back to 100%.

SAFP - SS - VCB - KS should be that line up... Good practice and excellent passes and they are as good as golden. Anything else and less than good passes and the US will win if they can replicate the Penns performance.

Madison - Felix - BK - Jeter has the passes right and seem to work well together. Adding Tarmoh in the mix could offset the balance and you also have to think that LW is in that pool (not the most lucky athlete where relays are concerned).
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:59 am

noxeht12 wrote:...you also have to think that LW is in that pool (not the most lucky athlete where relays are concerned).



I am literally stunned Williams was named to the pool over Kimberlyn Duncan(eligible via her 4th place in 200)


My final pool would be Jeter, Madison, Felix, Tarmoh, Duncan, Knight
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:09 am

guru wrote:
noxeht12 wrote:...you also have to think that LW is in that pool (not the most lucky athlete where relays are concerned).



I am literally stunned Williams was named to the pool over Kimberlyn Duncan(eligible via her 4th place in 200)


My final pool would be Jeter, Madison, Felix, Tarmoh, Duncan, Knight


I'm equally stunned... not only does she have a sub-11 clocking THIS SEASON she also have a 22.1x... She could have at least been useful in the first round...

Heats: Madison - BK - Tarmoh - Duncan
Finals: Madison - Felix - Tarmoh - Jeter

Although now it will likely be:

Heats: Williams - Tarmoh - BK - Madison
Finals: Madison - Felix - BK - Jeter
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:14 am

noxeht12 wrote:
I'm equally stunned... not only does she have a sub-11 clocking THIS SEASON she also have a 22.1x...



In light of Duncan's exclusion, it makes me wonder if Richards-Ross, who is undeniably one of the US's four fastest 100 runners on the overall roster, will wind up among the actual six who compete. If so there's not much doubt she'd be in the finals only
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:36 am

guru wrote:
noxeht12 wrote:
I'm equally stunned... not only does she have a sub-11 clocking THIS SEASON she also have a 22.1x...



In light of Duncan's exclusion, it makes me wonder if Richards-Ross, who is undeniably one of the US's four fastest 100 runners on the overall roster, will wind up among the actual six who compete. If so there's not much doubt she'd be in the finals only


Only way that works is if Felix, Jeter or SRR herself runs in the heats of the 4x100... remember only two substitution are allowed for the finals.

The workload is a bit heavy already for those ladies
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:48 am

Good point, especially if they all make the 200 final
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:51 am

guru wrote:Good point, especially if they all make the 200 final

So we're potentially looking at....

Jeter
3 rounds of 100
3 rounds of 200
2 rounds of 4x100 (she's the best choice for running the rounds I'd think)

SRR
3 rounds of 400
3 rounds of 200
1 round of 4x100
1 round of 4x400

Felix
3rounds of 100
3 rounds of 200
1 round of 4x100
1 round of 4x400
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:25 am

guru wrote:If the US has an 11.14 in the lineup, they lose. It's just that simple.


No it's not. I have no opinion on Knight, but it's not as simple as comparing the sum of the SB's or PR's. Amateurs talk footspeed, but pros talk baton skills. For example, if you put Usain Bolt on the second leg, you're giving away 0.3s of his footspeed before the race even starts.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:17 am

And what would lead you to believe the jamaicans will have inferior baton skills?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:31 am

Putting Knight in the lineup, and using SEASON bests, not comparing Trials results(which would be unfair to the US), here's how it breaks down with Knight in the lineup, with likely orders for both. It's not pretty.


Leadoff - Madison 10.96; Simpson 11.01

2nd - Felix 10.92; Stewart 10.94

3rd - Knight 11.14; Campbell-Brown 10.82

Anchor - Jeter 10.81; Fraser-Pryce 10.70


Any questions?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:32 am

guru wrote:And what would lead you to believe the jamaicans will have inferior baton skills?

There's nothing in recent history to suggest that they will have superior baton skills. Last year they brought 43.58s-footspeed (based on SB's) to Daegu and only managed to run 41.70. That's below average IMO.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:35 am

guru wrote:Any questions?

Where do you make allowances for each runners baton skills? I don't have that information, but presumably Jon Drummond has seen enough to be able assess each runner's strength in this area.

Having said this, I would question why Knight ran the scratch leg last year if her baton skills are so good. The scratch leg is where I would hide the person with great footspeed but inferior baton skills. If Knight is that good with the stick, she should be in the middle of the lineup.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:48 am

guru wrote:Putting Knight in the lineup, and using SEASON bests, not comparing Trials results(which would be unfair to the US), here's how it breaks down with Knight in the lineup, with likely orders for both. It's not pretty.


Leadoff - Madison 10.96; Simpson 11.01

2nd - Felix 10.92; Stewart 10.94

3rd - Knight 11.14; Campbell-Brown 10.82

Anchor - Jeter 10.81; Fraser-Pryce 10.70


Any questions?


That line-up (for JA at least) is all wrong...
Lead-off - SAFP 10.70; Madison 10.96
2nd - Simpson 11.01; Felix 10.92
3rd - VCB 10.82; BK 11.14
Anchor - Kerron 10.94; Jeter 10.81

This plays on each of their strengths:
SAFP and Madison are great starters/curve runners.
Simpsons 400m strength showed in her stretch run in the 200, she is the only person I have seen run down and pass VCB like that. She also runs great backstretches. Felix is a known entity there.
VCB best curve runner (maybe ever) and BK is a great curve runner too,
Kerron and Jeter are top end queens when they are firing a full cylinders
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby reggaemon » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:19 am

I think Jamaica need to neutralise Allyson Felix on that 2nd leg..My 4x 100 would be Sherone to SAF to VCB and then Kerron Stewart..I think although Sherone isn't what she used to be, I can't see the USA first leg runner blowing her away, SAF would be effective on that back stretch against AF, VCB would blow away their 3rd leg runner and I don't Jeter atthis point in time have much on Kerron Stewart to reel her in... I see Madison starting for the USA to AF, maybe Bianca Knight because of her experience as a good curve runner and the to Jeter...guys what you think about that matchup?
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