¶2012OT w100—Carmelita Jeter 10.92

[j-a-m]

In our litigious society you need ten sentences for things like that or you run the risk of somebody's law dude picking the procedure apart if things don't go their way.

Anyone's "law dude" would pick the existing document apart. It's wordy without being legally sound.

[Halfmiler2]

It would help if they used the most powerful technology out there. Not only is there the electron microscope, but there are cameras capable of taking pictures at more than 10,000, or even a million, frames a second.

No, they should not do this. Swimming calls all races tied at 1/100th a tie after a race at the 1972 Olympics (400IM) that was decided by 2/1000ths. They then discovered that such a margin could occur if one lane had an extra coat of paint. Cross-country skiing does the same for any race and will not measure now to the 1/100th even.

When you get down to 1/1000th in track & field, you get similar problems. How accurate are the lane measurements? If they are off by a millimetre or 2, that likely equates to 1/1000th second or more. Same with the line on a finish photo. How accurate is that - if it is angled by a milli-fraction of a degree, then times between lanes can be thrown off.

Nothing wrong with a tie - just need to decide how to break it in these rare cases where that is necessary.

1/1000th of a second in a 100 meter dash amounts to about a centimeter or about 2/5s of an inch. Not much but a bit more than a coat of paint in a swimming pool.

[Halfmiler2]

I would bet good money that Felix will qualify in the 200 ( probably winning as well) and then promptly will relinquish her 100 spot.

Gee, didn't I say that about 300 posts ago!

Yes, you did, Marlow, exactly 18 posts after I did.

Has anyone on this thread predicted that there will be a run-off?

[AKR]

I was, initially, of the opinion that Felix may relinquish her spot in the 100m after saturdays final but now, I have a strong feeling that she and Jeneba will opt for the run-off. Not for the money though...they are athletes first and that's what they do, they compete ...whether it's Bobby Kersee's backyard or Eugene doesn't matter. Also, I think both Felix and Jeneba seem to be handling the situation quite well.

[Marlow]

I would bet good money that Felix will qualify in the 200 ( probably winning as well) and then promptly will relinquish her 100 spot.

Gee, didn't I say that about 300 posts ago!

Yes, you did, Marlow, exactly 18 posts after I did.
Has anyone on this thread predicted that there will be a run-off?

I am now going to amend my prognostication - they WILL run off, Felix will win, but see that she doesn't have a clear shot at gold, and THEN she will forfeit her spot.

[ATK]

If Felix runs fast in the 200, the last thing she will do is give up her spot in the 100.
Her whole plan was to use the 100 to help her 200, and if it works here, best believe she is using the same strategy in London.

[AKR]

I would bet good money that Felix will qualify in the 200 ( probably winning as well) and then promptly will relinquish her 100 spot.

Gee, didn't I say that about 300 posts ago!

Yes, you did, Marlow, exactly 18 posts after I did.
Has anyone on this thread predicted that there will be a run-off?

I am now going to amend my prognostication - they WILL run off, Felix will win, but see that she doesn't have a clear shot at gold, and THEN she will forfeit her spot.

Very unlikely. It's not as if she's lost her form. She just needs a good start. Notice her reaction time in the final was the worst among the 8 finalists. As long as she can fix it, which I think she can given that there's still a months time before London, she will go for it. That is if she wins the run-off.

[Marlow]

If Felix runs fast in the 200, the last thing she will do is give up her spot in the 100. Her whole plan was to use the 100 to help her 200, and if it works here, best believe she is using the same strategy in London.

As long as she can fix it, which I think she can given that there's still a months time before London, she will go for it. That is if she wins the run-off.

The advantage of dropping the 100 (which she can work on (her start and top-end speed) in London, while the others are running the 100 rounds), is that she's fresh for the 200 where SRR is gonna be ultra-tough. I don't she can win the 100 on her best day.

[ATK]

The advantage of dropping the 100 (which she can work on (her start and top-end speed) in London, while the others are running the 100 rounds), is that she's fresh for the 200 where SRR is gonna be ultra-tough. I don't she can win the 100 on her best day.

I think that's Irrelevant, remember she has tons of 400m training in her from the last 2 years.
If anything the 100m warms her up and gets her legs moving. She wont be tired, she will be ready to go.

[eroszag]

I think that Felix would not have a realistic chance to medal in London..
Jeter, Madison, SAFP, VCB , Baptiste are superior 100m specialists ..and Stewart also.

[TrackDaddy]

If Felix runs fast in the 200, the last thing she will do is give up her spot in the 100.
Her whole plan was to use the 100 to help her 200, and if it works here, best believe she is using the same strategy in London.

I'm not sure when that became her plan. Her coach publicly stated her plan was the opposite in Osaka when she made the team in the 100 and 200. I agree she wants to make the team in the 100 but I also believe its more important to her camp that VCB runs both in London than if Felix does.

Go check the record and notice that the only time VCB doubled and beat a non doubling Felix was in 2004 when Felix was a teen. Felix beat VCB in 2007 and 2009 in the WC, but lost to VCB in Beijing because VCB failed to make the 100m team. When VCB only runs the deuce she wins.

Running rounds of the 100m aint no warm up for the deuce in an Olympics. Its an energy drain. Its the reason only Flojo , Marion Jones and Kelli White (sans 1 eastern bloc lady) have completed successful doubles in the modern era. Only Bolt and Carl Lewis on the men's side in God knows when. VCB chasing doubles has cost her 200 gold on multiple occasions.

[TrackDaddy]

I would bet good money that Felix will qualify in the 200 ( probably winning as well) and then promptly will relinquish her 100 spot.

Gee, didn't I say that about 300 posts ago!

Yes, you did, Marlow, exactly 18 posts after I did.

Huh? I said it 4122 posts or so ago even before she dropped the 100 and smashed the field in the 200 final in Osaka.

Now that she knows VCB has made Jamaicans 100 team and will undoubtedly make their 200 team, we won't see it publicly but if Felix makes the 200 team tonight, she won't fight as hard about the 100 anymore.

For her to win in London, its more important to her team that VCB doubles than if she does.

[ATK]

If Felix runs fast in the 200, the last thing she will do is give up her spot in the 100.
Her whole plan was to use the 100 to help her 200, and if it works here, best believe she is using the same strategy in London.

I'm not sure when that became her plan. Her coach publicly stated her plan was the opposite in Osaka when she made the team in the 100 and 200. I agree she wants to make the team in the 100 but I also believe its more important to her camp that VCB runs both in London than if Felix does.

Go check the record and notice that the only time VCB doubled and beat a non doubling Felix was in 2004 when Felix was a teen. Felix beat VCB in 2007 and 2009 in the WC, but lost to VCB in Beijing because VCB failed to make the 100m team. When VCB only runs the deuce she wins.

Running rounds of the 100m aint no warm up for the deuce in an Olympics. Its an energy drain. Its the reason only Flojo , Marion Jones and Kelli White (sans 1 eastern bloc lady) have completed successful doubles in the modern era. Only Bolt and Carl Lewis on the men's side in God knows when. VCB chasing doubles has cost her 200 gold on multiple occasions.

In the press conference before US trials she stated that her plan was to use the 100m to help her 200, and that if she makes the team in both, she will run both in London.

[ATK]

After speaking on Allyson after her 200 performance, Kersee says that the ladies will not run tomorrow.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/248612 ... -200-final

[guru]

After speaking on Allyson after her 200 performance, Kersee says that the ladies will not run tomorrow.

It's time for USATF to put it's foot down. They run tomorrow, or the coin flips

[Marlow]

After such a dominating display in the 200, I retract my prediction. Felix stands to make even MORE commercial $$$ as a 100/200 prospect before the games, so the run-off just got real serious for AF. She'll win going away and start ca$hing in immediately!

[Slowrunner]

After speaking on Allyson after her 200 performance, Kersee says that the ladies will not run tomorrow.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/248612 ... -200-final

If it were the Olympics, wouldn't they well be running a relay the next day?

[Blues]

After speaking on Allyson after her 200 performance, Kersee says that the ladies will not run tomorrow.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/248612 ... -200-final

If it were the Olympics, wouldn't they well be running a relay the next day?

The 4x1 heats are the next day.. Not sure if they'd run alternates in the heats or not.. (200 final Aug 8, 4x1 heats Aug 9, 4x1 final Aug 10, 4x4 heats Aug 10, 4x4 final Aug 11.)

[j-a-m]

The 4x1 heats are the next day.. Not sure if they'd run alternates in the heats or not.. (200 final Aug 8, 4x1 heats Aug 9, 4x1 final Aug 10, 4x4 heats Aug 10, 4x4 final Aug 11.)

They'd probably run some alternates, saving Jeter and Felix for the final.

[CookyMonzta]

After speaking on Allyson after her 200 performance, Kersee says that the ladies will not run tomorrow.

It's time for USATF to put it's foot down. They run tomorrow, or the coin flips

NO! They must give these ladies at least 3 days to rest. No sudden drop down to the 100, lest one or both get hurt; and NBC will rue the day that they lose what could be the closest anyone comes to Flo's WR. Once more, and I say again, a coin flip is what you use to start a competition, not to end it.

It must be settled on the track; but not so soon that they run the risk of hurting either one or both. Let it be settled on July 4. They'll have another 3 days of rest, to prepare themselves as if they would prepare for a European circuit meet. If they have an Independence Day event at Hayward Field, let the race be run in the middle of that event.

[CookyMonzta]

After speaking on Allyson after her 200 performance, Kersee says that the ladies will not run tomorrow.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/248612 ... -200-final

If it were the Olympics, wouldn't they well be running a relay the next day?

They would be running fast, but not all-out fast. The runoff is a different story, which runs the risk that we could lose either one or both of them; for which, a witch-burning will take place as a result (with high-ranking USATF members or NBC execs at the stake), especially if we lose the one who just ran 21.69.

[110hedgeNYC]

incredibly stupid position being taken by Hightower/USATF. Incredible.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47305

no way. no way, Bobby. don't let USATF bully you. not in the interest of your athletes. they need at least 3 days to recover.

[110hedgeNYC]

After speaking on Allyson after her 200 performance, Kersee says that the ladies will not run tomorrow.

It's time for USATF to put it's foot down. They run tomorrow, or the coin flips

no guru. you're dead wrong. incredibly wrong and misguided to make them run Sunday.

ridiculous.

what? you want them both injured?

[guru]

After speaking on Allyson after her 200 performance, Kersee says that the ladies will not run tomorrow.

It's time for USATF to put it's foot down. They run tomorrow, or the coin flips

no guru. you're dead wrong. incredibly wrong and misguided to make them run Sunday.

ridiculous.

what? you want them both injured?

It's not my fault they didnt resolve it last Sunday or Monday.

If Kersee doesnt want to run, they can always flip the coin, as the rules mandate.

[Dutra5]

I don't get what the rush would be. They are both on the roster.

[guru]

Can anyone imagine the resulting swimoff of a tie between Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte being held over a week later - days after the Trials finished?

Me neither...

[Dutra5]

Can anyone imagine the resulting swimoff of a tie between Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte being held over a week later - days after the Trials finished?

Me neither...

Why not?

[Randy Treadway]

Let it be settled on July 4. They'll have another 3 days of rest, to prepare themselves as if they would prepare for a European circuit meet. If they have an Independence Day event at Hayward Field, let the race be run in the middle of that event.

If there is to be a runoff, why does it have to be in Eugene, or for that matter anywhere in the U.S.? Are you going to force the athletes to pay big change fees to rewrite a plane ticket to Europe dated tomorrow that they might have booked a long time ago?

If the runoff was at an agreed-to meet in Europe, surely NBC has a connection to this little thing called a satellite. Besides, knowing NBC they'd just tape-delay it anyway.
Kersee and the athletes would be smart to demand "we want it in Paris (or Athens or London, or whatever) and we want it in the already scheduled women's 100..... or if it has to be a two-woman duel.... "we want it at high noon when it's warmest". Then NBC can tape it and show it in prime time (who cares anyway).

For that matter, how do we know that the two of them aren't winging their way to Europe right this minute (why stay around Eugene an extra day?), leaving Kersee to speak for them to convey what they've decided. THAT would certainly force USATF's hand, wouldn't it?- making a runoff in Eugene impossible. USATF has already said if both athletes want a runoff, they get it. They didn't say where.

[Randy Treadway]

Can anyone imagine the resulting swimoff of a tie between Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte being held over a week later - days after the Trials finished?

Me neither...

Why not?

Yes, why not?
There IS a LOT of precedence for team selections a number of weeks after the Trials. If that's what is smartest, then that's what USATF should do. Of course you need to help the athletes by doing it in a way that blends in nicely with their "already booked" training, travel and competition schedule. It helps that these two are teammates, so they're already training, traveling, and competing together anyway.

[guru]

USATF has already said if both athletes want a runoff, they get it. They didn't say where.

USATF made it clear, first through Jill Geer, and reiterated last night by Stephanie Hightower, that any resolution of the matter would have to occur by the end of the meet(tonight). If neither were to express a desire to run(or in your scenario already be out of town), then the coin flip would decide it for them.

[guru]

Can anyone imagine the resulting swimoff of a tie between Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte being held over a week later - days after the Trials finished?

Me neither...

Why not?

Of course it can't happen in swimming, as they actually have a rule stating the swimoff must occur within 45 minutes of the last event for either of the swimmers that day.

Foresight. Imagine that

[Randy Treadway]

I think USATF should have given them a third option besides runoff and coin toss- that would be if both athletes agree, the team selection can be made by the USA Team Coaches based on evidence of form shown through July 8th (the IOC deadline to turn in names). Such a review would include results for the season as a whole, but weighted more toward the most recent results. If one or both of the athletes decides to not compete in any meets between the Trials and July 8, that will not be held against them, and the review of form will be based on season results through the Trials meet, with the most recent meets being weighted the heaviest.

If either of the athletes doesn't like that and would rather have a single competition declared a 'runoff', then so be it.

Of course that didn't happen- USATF already ruled that out. Bunch of wimps, want to avoid at all costs making a call. They'd rather do a coin flip just to avoid any "blame".

[Dutra5]

Can anyone imagine the resulting swimoff of a tie between Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte being held over a week later - days after the Trials finished?

Me neither...

Why not?

Of course it can't happen in swimming, as they actually have a rule stating the swimoff must occur within 45 minutes of the last event for either of the swimmers that day.

Foresight. Imagine that

Why is that rule any better than having a runoff in a different sport with a different affect on the body at a later date?

[Randy Treadway]

USATF has already said if both athletes want a runoff, they get it. They didn't say where.

USATF made it clear, first through Jill Geer, and reiterated last night by Stephanie Hightower, that any resolution of the matter would have to occur by the end of the meet(tonight). If neither were to express a desire to run(or in your scenario already be out of town), then the coin flip would decide it for them.

"resolution of the matter" can simply mean they've made their choice, so the matter is settled as to deciding the method. "Resolution" doesn't have to mean that the 100m team spot has been awarded to one or the other of them. Geer never said that.

"expressing a desire" can certainly be conveyed by the coach- in fact maybe the two of them each already signed a preference document and had it notarized, which Kersee will turn in this evening.

[Dutra5]

I think USATF should have given them a third option besides runoff and coin toss- that would be if both athletes agree, the team selection can be made by the USA Team Coaches based on evidence of form shown through July 8th (the IOC deadline to turn in names). Such a review would include results for the season as a whole, but weighted more toward the most recent results. If one or both of the athletes decides to not compete in any meets between the Trials and July 8, that will not be held against them, and the review of form with be based on season results through the Trials meet, with the most recent meets being weighted the heaviest.

If either of the athletes doesn't like that and would rather have a single competition declared a 'runoff', then so be it.

The names have to be handed in by July 8th and no matter what both Tarmoh and Felix would be on the 100m roster...one as an alternate. So in reality the runoff could occur anytime through whatever the declaration point is for the event in the Olympics which I think is within 48 hours of the event.