Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]


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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Fri May 18, 2012 8:25 am

gh wrote:Oh come now! You don't know how she's training any more than anybody else here.

Given that the Oregon team trains with a team purpose, and that winning first the Pac-12 and next the NCAA is what it's all about, I'd fall over dead if the anchor of the crucial 4x4 isn't training for the 400 as much as the 800.

I know of not a single sprinter who also runs in-season 1500m. Roesler does! Telling me what I don't know is one thing...and I admit to it, but you guys ALSO have to admit that you don't KNOW either.

Latavia Thomas nor Phoebe Wright trained like a 400m sprinter (Wright ran on their 4x1500). But they anchored, at times, their respective 4x4 relays. I could name more, and so could you so don't act like 800m runners DON'T anchor 4x4's. But, if you want to run fast then you have to train fast and you don't do that at 800m pace and you certainly don't do it at 1500m pace. That says she ain't being trained like no sprinter. A sub-2:08 800m runner will near-always run on a 4x4.

bruce3404 wrote:... I simply stated that I hadn't seen enough speed in her 400 relay legs while also stating that her toughness better translated to an 800.

...most of the best athletes are "tough" and the vast majority don't run the 800m. By the way, what are you looking for that says, "that's 400m speed"? Maybe, like in most cases where disagreements take place, we have a definition problem.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gh » Fri May 18, 2012 8:47 am

preston wrote:
gh wrote:Oh come now! You don't know how she's training any more than anybody else here.

Given that the Oregon team trains with a team purpose, and that winning first the Pac-12 and next the NCAA is what it's all about, I'd fall over dead if the anchor of the crucial 4x4 isn't training for the 400 as much as the 800.

I know of not a single sprinter who also runs in-season 1500m. Roesler does! Telling me what I don't know is one thing...and I admit to it, but you guys ALSO have to admit that you don't KNOW either....


I believe my "anybody else here" took care of that admission from the get-go.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Blues » Fri May 18, 2012 12:29 pm

Laura isn't the first 800m runner with pretty good 400 speed to run a 1500 early in the season to get some endurance work. As a notable example, Jearl Miles Clark's PR is 4:34.25 from March of 2000. I don't know what type of training she was primarily doing, but she'd set the American 800m record of 1:56.40 late in the '99 season, and in the same 2000 outdoor season as her 1500 PR she later ran 23.13 -0.5, 50.04, and 1:59.12.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby bruce3404 » Fri May 18, 2012 6:42 pm

preston wrote:
bruce3404 wrote:... I simply stated that I hadn't seen enough speed in her 400 relay legs while also stating that her toughness better translated to an 800.

...most of the best athletes are "tough" and the vast majority don't run the 800m. By the way, what are you looking for that says, "that's 400m speed"? Maybe, like in most cases where disagreements take place, we have a definition problem.


I would be looking for a time that put her in a position to score points in the NCAA Championships. I know she can score in the 800, so I'm not too concerned if her current season best time is in the top 8. But if she's seriously going to run the 400 then I'm thinking she needs to be able to run under 52.5. I don't believe she's ever broken 53 in an open race. When I mentioned toughness, my thought was that you have to have the speed to go along with the toughness. LR doesn't have the combination of speed and toughness in the 400, but she's proven she has both in the 800.
The Ducks have a terrific 400m runner in Phyllis Francis as well as a great 800m runner in Kesselring, so placing Laura in the 800 isn't a matter of filling in gaps for the team, but rather placing her where Lannana thinks she'll score the most points in Des Moines. The schedule also allows her to come back reasonably fresh for the 4x400 relay.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Fri May 18, 2012 7:02 pm

Laura has run a relay split of 51.45, so I'm certain she can run under 52.50 in an open race.
She routinely runs anchor against the big guns from the other schools, but she doesn't run open 400m races.
I think she'd do as well in the 400m if she trained for it, as she has done at 800m.
Which means, conference champion, and possibly an NCAA finalist.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Fri May 18, 2012 7:25 pm

I am not sure on this but I think that she only has one relay time in that range. It is not uncommon for relay legs to be mis-timed; does anyone know if that time is one that is likely to be accurate?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Fri May 18, 2012 8:13 pm

Wow - you really don't want it to be true.
But would you question it, if it was someone else?!
http://www.flashresults.com/2011_Meets/ ... ts32-2.htm
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Fri May 18, 2012 9:24 pm

I found this for you....from the Pepsi Invitational early April, Roesler holding off Kamaria Brown of A&M (who is Big 12 indoor champ 22.86; Big 12 indoor 400m runner-up 52.60)

http://www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php ... o_id=63994
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Blues » Fri May 18, 2012 10:24 pm

Jacksf wrote:I found this for you....from the Pepsi Invitational early April, Roesler holding off Kamaria Brown of A&M (who is Big 12 indoor champ 22.86; Big 12 indoor 400m runner-up 52.60)

http://www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php ... o_id=63994

That was still another high 52 to 53 type split for Laura, like at PAC-12's and the Penn Relays. There was also conflicting information as to whether that was Kamaria Brown anchoring for A&M or whether it was 800m runner Tiffany Singleton. The Aggies' website lists Tiffany Singleton as the anchor as does TFRRS, but it's possible they're mistaken...(There are meet results showing both Brown and Singleton as the anchor of the second place team, and the video doesn't clearly show the face or the name bib.) If you know it's Brown then I'll take your word for
it.

A link to the NCAA race last year where Laura split her 51.xx is below ... If gh has to delete the link, searching youtube for "Texas A&M Women's Track-2011 National Champions" which is the title of the vid, will find it. Anchor leg starts at around 5:20 of the vid.. Try to ignore the announcers butchering athlete's names. Should 26 or anyone else want to time Laura's split, the camera angle flashes back after showing Beard and Selvon, and you can just see Laura cross the finish from a front view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMd_NF4Ly0M
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby j-a-m » Fri May 25, 2012 6:53 pm

She ran a season-best 2:04... today at the West prelims.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby bruce3404 » Fri May 25, 2012 7:47 pm

j-a-m wrote:She ran a season-best 2:04... today at the West prelims.


Maybe the Hytek results are incorrect, but they show she only ran a 2:07.47. Nevertheless, she raced with great control and did only what she had to to ensure a trip to Des Moines, while saving herself for the 4x400 tomorrow.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby j-a-m » Fri May 25, 2012 7:54 pm

bruce3404 wrote:
j-a-m wrote:She ran a season-best 2:04... today at the West prelims.


Maybe the Hytek results are incorrect, but they show she only ran a 2:07.47. Nevertheless, she raced with great control and did only what she had to to ensure a trip to Des Moines, while saving herself for the 4x400 tomorrow.


The Hytek website's not working properly, still showing results from yesterday's first round instead of today's second round, not even working with reload.

Mackie ran 2:02 from the front; Roesler stayed in third for a while, then moved to second. Was the fastent of the three heats. I believe Roesler had the second fastest time overall, not sure about that, though.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby bruce3404 » Fri May 25, 2012 8:40 pm

j-a-m wrote:
The Hytek website's not working properly, still showing results from yesterday's first round instead of today's second round, not even working with reload.

Mackie ran 2:02 from the front; Roesler stayed in third for a while, then moved to second. Was the fastent of the three heats. I believe Roesler had the second fastest time overall, not sure about that, though.


That certainly explains what seemed to be workout times for most of the competitors. The West regional has been very difficult to watch, with the audio, video and Hytek problems. The East has been very easy to follow. Maybe the West crew is spending too much time down on 6th Street.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Master Po » Fri May 25, 2012 8:48 pm

As suggested above, Roesler's 2:04.48 was 2nd fastest Q. Not an impressively fast time, I suppose, but she did exactly what she needed to do in this event in this meet, which is what matters, imo.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby bruce3404 » Sat May 26, 2012 7:08 pm

Hytek's not giving us splits, but Roessler ran an amazing 3rd leg today in Austin in part of a 3:29+ clocking for the Ducks.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gm » Sat May 26, 2012 7:11 pm

For the love of Pete, Bruce, Hy-Tek is a software product!

AllTrax Timing is the company timing the West meet. Cite them for not providing splits, if you must.

/esotericrant
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby bruce3404 » Sat May 26, 2012 9:58 pm

gm wrote:For the love of Pete, Bruce, Hy-Tek is a software product!

AllTrax Timing is the company timing the West meet. Cite them for not providing splits, if you must.

/esotericrant


All I know is that I see Hy-Tek's name all over the results page and nothing about AllTrax. Does the Hy-Tek program offer the ability to post splits? Whatever they used in the East was labeled Flash Results and it was much more user-friendly. According to their website, they also use Hy-Tek software, so maybe I've answered my question. Funny that AllTrax only has the name Hy-Tek on their results page and Flash Results gives no credit to the meet manager program. Confusing for some of us and thanks for clarifying.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gm » Sat May 26, 2012 10:10 pm

I didn't mean to come off as shouting at you Bruce. Here's what's at the top of every page on the "live" results --

AllTrax Timing - Contractor License
NCAA Division I 2012 Outdoor
Track & Field Championships -West Preliminary
University of Texas -Austin - 5/24/2012 to 5/26/2012
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby bruce3404 » Sat May 26, 2012 10:54 pm

gm wrote:I didn't mean to come off as shouting at you Bruce. Here's what's at the top of every page on the "live" results --

AllTrax Timing - Contractor License
NCAA Division I 2012 Outdoor
Track & Field Championships -West Preliminary
University of Texas -Austin - 5/24/2012 to 5/26/2012


Thanks for pointing that out. You'd think after three days of staring at those results I might have caught that :D Alltrax needs to look at the Flash Results model and steal all they can from it.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Chris Kuykendall » Sun May 27, 2012 4:40 am

Does anybody have the splits for the Oregon women, or at least the third and anchor legs by Roesler and Francis, in the NCAA West 4x400?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby j-a-m » Sun May 27, 2012 6:34 am

Chris Kuykendall wrote:Does anybody have the splits for the Oregon women, or at least the third and anchor legs by Roesler and Francis, in the NCAA West 4x400?


No, the splits are neither on the live results website nor on Oregon's website (Aggies website, on the other hand, lists all 4x400 splits). Roesler led them from second into first, and Francis held on to the lead.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Chris Kuykendall » Sun May 27, 2012 12:02 pm

Chris Kuykendall wrote:Does anybody have the splits for the Oregon women, or at least the third and anchor legs by Roesler and Francis, in the NCAA West 4x400?


The West Regional results page now has more splits posted, with the answer to my previous question. Laura Roesler 52.60 third leg and Phyllis Francis 50.87 anchor to the 50.50 anchor of Ashley Spencer from runnerup Illinois in the same third heat. Arkansas closed 52.89. On the third leg, Arkansas 54.31 and Illinois 53.13. Diamond Dixon for Kansas anchored 51.54 in the second heat.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby bruce3404 » Sun May 27, 2012 12:08 pm

Thanks for the info, Chris. You oughta come up to Des Moines; we'll make room for you in the Duck section :D Roesler's leg seemed much faster, but it had everything to do with the very slow 3rd leg by the Arkansas runner.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby ATK » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:46 pm

Roesler just ran 2:02.09 in the prelim at NCAA's. Is that her PR?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gh » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:48 pm

yes, but not nearly as good as her 400 potential :twisted:
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby j-a-m » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:49 pm

On the final straightaway Roesler ran away from Kendra Chambers, who used to run the 400 until last season, and just started running the 800 this season (Chambers just missed the final with a huge PR).
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby j-a-m » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:46 pm

ATK wrote:Roesler just ran 2:02.09 in the prelim at NCAA's. Is that her PR?

I believe almost one second better than her old PR.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:15 am

gh wrote:yes, but not nearly as good as her 400 potential :twisted:

First, she is my stealth pick to break your Olympic formchart, so keep cheering;

second, congratulations, Roesler just set a new PB after 4 years, 2:02.09...and I still think had she been TRAINING for the 400m that she would have run at least the B-standard by now if not the A (Of course, we'll never know now). But more to the point: she still doesn't have the B-standard. That's telling.

400m: A-standard 51.55 B-standard 52.35
800m: A-standard 1:59.90 B-standard 2:01.30
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:22 am

preston wrote:
gh wrote:yes, but not nearly as good as her 400 potential :twisted:

First, she is my stealth pick to break your Olympic formchart, so keep cheering;

second, congratulations, Roesler just set a new PB after 4 years, 2:02.09...and I still think had she been TRAINING for the 400m that she would have run at least the B-standard by now if not the A (Of course, we'll never know now). But more to the point: she still doesn't have the B-standard. That's telling.

400m: A-standard 51.55 B-standard 52.35
800m: A-standard 1:59.90 B-standard 2:01.30

Her PR before this was 2:03.02, as a HS junior, if I recall. A little faster, and she might make the B-standard. It'll get really interesting if she goes 50.x on the relay. Last year's 51.4 split almost certainly gives her the B-standard in an open 400.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Master Po » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:34 am

Actually, this is her progression of annual bests so far:

2007 2:07.83
2008 2:03.08 (Jim Bush Classic, 3rd)
2009 2:06.2
2010 2:04.34 (WJC sf, 4th)
2011 2:03.12 (NCAA W Regional, 4th)
2012 2:02.09 NCAA Ch prelim, 2nd)


IAAF bio:
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/biographie ... index.html
Last edited by Master Po on Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:40 am

Okay, my bad; sophomore year. Too long between PRs at this stage. If it's tactical, she won't get another PR. if someone pushes the pace, she might just sneak in under 2:00.00.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Ernest Lee » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:02 am

preston wrote:..and I still think had she been TRAINING for the 400m that she would have run at least the B-standard by now if not the A (Of course, we'll never know now).


According to the article from the front page:

"Roesler trains under Johnson, who works with Oregon's sprinters. "

Does that mean that she has been training for the 400 all along?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Master Po » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:26 am

History isn't destiny, but as for what sort of times one might reasonably expect in the final, the recent history of the event suggests that a winning time of 2:00.xx or even sub-2:00 is unlikely:

In the past 20 years (1992-2011) at NCAA, the event has been won 12 times in 2:01-2:02; 5 times it has been won in 2:03-2:04; and just 3 times has it been won in sub-2:01 (2009 -- Geena Gall @ 2:00.80; 2007 -- Alysia Johnson @1:59.29; 1995 -- Inez Turner @ 2:00.27).

But who knows? Maybe this year will be one of the really fast ones.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:37 am

Ernest Lee wrote:
preston wrote:..and I still think had she been TRAINING for the 400m that she would have run at least the B-standard by now if not the A (Of course, we'll never know now).


According to the article from the front page:

"Roesler trains under Johnson, who works with Oregon's sprinters. "

Does that mean that she has been training for the 400 all along?

If she was training for the 400 all along then how come she's run virtually no 400's since arriving at Oregon? Who recruits and trains a "400m runner" like a 400m runner and then tells them to run the 800m and the 1500? If that article is 100% accurate then I will gladly say that I've been wrong and that she has no business in the 400m; however, if that article is wrong, or even slightly inaccurate -believe it or not that happens from time to time- then my point still holds.

To answer your question: it is my belief that the article is inaccurate in that it implies that she is being trained like a sprinter when she clearly isn't.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Master Po » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:49 am

As for the question of this thread - Is it possible she is being trained in a way that is well-suited to her, & is neither exactly "sprint" or "distance"?

I assume that none of us posting to this thread knows the answer to the question of how she is actually being trained, but look at her UO competition history -- there is a benefit to focusing here, because we can can look at what she actually does, rather than speculate about how she may or may not be trained.

In fact she competes at 400 frequently -- as much as she competes at 800. If you go through her competition history, & tally the number of 400s (including 4x4 and open 400), you get 23 competitions at 400m. If you tally the number of 800s (including 4x8 & DMR), you get 25 competitions at 800m so far. (Note - on the TFRRS site to which TFN links for collegiate lists, one DMR listed for Roesler - NCAA Indoor 2011 - meet results show she did not run.)

She has only 3 competitions at 1500m (and one each at 600m and 200m). So, we're not being accurate to her competition record to think of her as a "1500 runner" really any more than we would think of her as a "200 runner" (which we don't consider her).

So, she actually competes across the range from 200m-1500m, but as the stats show, she's competing almost entirely & equally at 400 & 800.

More important, we are not being accurate to her actual competition record by trying to argue each other into seeing her as either sprint or distance runner. If we pay attention to her actual competition record, it shows what she is at this point in her career: a 400/800 runner.

However she was trained in HS, these are the two events at which she showed the most promise. So perhaps she knows & her coaches at UO know what they're doing. She seems to be doing well, as of this writing, and she is contributing to the success of her teams.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gh » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:00 am

my GUESS is that she's being trained for exactly what Oregon wants her to do: score points in both the 4x4 and 800. Whatever event may be in her future remains just that... in the future. (so one way or another, she and Wariner are ending up in the same event :mrgreen: )
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby kuha » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:07 am

So Wariner's moving up to the 1500!!?? Cool! (Jeremy: It's only the last kilo that really hurts.)
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:02 am

Master Po, this can't be made more clear: sprinters and 400m runners do not run in season 1500m! That's not sprint training and Johnson would know better. It may be some hybrid training to make an ATTEMPT to retain some of her natural speed so that she can excel at 800m - her chosen event, but it is NOT sprint training!

Also, no one is going to count 4x4's against 800's and 1500's and say that equates to sprint training. You distance runners need to recognize that "speedwork" is not SPRINT TRAINING. It's not the same, stop equating it as such. YOU DON'T GET FASTER RUNNING SLOWER. IF SHE IS RUNNING AS MANY 800's AS 400's THEN SHE IS NOT GOING TO GET FASTER AS A 400 RUNNER!!! Especially, if she's going up to the 1500 on occasion.

You're assessment is one of the reason why one of the definitions for academic is not relevant or pertinent. Are you serious? Name another 400m runner, who was concentrating on running the 400m, from the last 20 years who is running in season 1500's? NAME ONE! Don't include me in that "we're not being accurate..."...you're not being sensible. You're wrong to dismiss 1500m racing and not realize that it inhibits speed development for a 400m runner and THEN TO EXPECT THAT SHE SHOULD SOMEHOW BE RUNNING the 50-49!

Lastly, her training in high school is central to why she probably excelled at 800m, but I have no real argument with her running the 800m and have said as much. I've also believed that IF she would have trained as a sprinter that she could have been a pretty good sprinter and POSSIBLY better than she currently is at the 800. The problem I have is when posters here say that she is being trained as a sprinter when she clearly is NOT being trained like a sprinter. It's insulting to have to read someone write that she is as if she is giving herself equal chance to be equally good at either. It's bullshit!
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Master Po » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:10 am

Um, all I was doing was posting some data of what she actually is doing in competition, because that is data that I have access to. Not arguing at all about what she should be doing or what would be best for her, as I am not in a position to know that. I note the intensity with which you state your position, and am not interested in arguing with you.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:16 am

Master Po wrote:Um, all I was doing was posting some data of what she actually is doing in competition, because that is data that I have access to. Not arguing at all about what she should be doing or what would be best for her, as I am not in a position to know that. I note the intensity with which you state your position, and am not interested in arguing with you.

My apologies. We've been arguing this for months so your post just seemed to bring up something that has been repeated many times before.
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