Being the good boy that I am, I’m reading through the rules for the NCAA Regional Qualifying and came across this:
Field Events / Combined Events. SITUATION 1: A long jumper takes a jump in the preliminary attempt round of competition at a Preliminary Championship Competition site. Believing the mark to be sufficient to advance to the final attempt round and also place in the top twelve at that Preliminary Championship Competition site, the student-athlete leaves the competition area. Is this one valid mark sufficient to be used for advancing to the Final Championship Competition? RULING: No. This student-athlete would be in violation of Rule 4-2.2. Participation is required in subsequent rounds as a result of qualifying. Each Preliminary Championship Competition site has two qualifying rounds of competition in jumping or throwing events. Each round (three attempts in each) has qualifiers for the next round. The student-athlete must participate (compete) in each round of the competition. Participation in the final attempt round of a field event can be satisfied without actually making an attempt.
So if a guy long jumps 27’ in the first round of qualifying and (correctly) assumes he’s through to the NCAA Championships, he must still stick around and ‘participate’ in the next round, even though ‘passing’ is acceptable participation? I no get. Isn’t the idea to just qualify people and then get the heck outta Dodge?
The first three attempts of the 48 competitors are a qualifying round, to advance to the next round of 16 athletes, where they will get three more attempts and the top 12 of that final group will advance. It is the manner in which its set-up so you are correct, the athlete must take at least one attempt in the final group of 16 to advance.
26mi235 wrote: So they want you 'around' -- how does this work if you have multiple events; can you just show up at some point or what?
I guess you just dash over from whatever you're doing during any of the final three jumps and formally "pass". Silly rule, though I understand the intent is to keep things more interesting for the fans.
The fans won't even see someone coming over to the official and passing once, so what is the reason for having a draconian rule that has nothing to do with the competition?
26mi235 wrote:The fans won't even see someone coming over to the official and passing once, so what is the reason for having a draconian rule that has nothing to do with the competition?
My guess is that the intent was to keep performers competing, rather than passing. What the rule makers didn't account for is that most athletes assured of a trip to the championship meet would not risk injury by taking unnecessary jumps. A simple solution for fixing these awful Regional competitions would be to take the top 24 marks, period. This could result in 22 long jumpers from the East and 2 from the West. If the events were held at roughly the same time, only those few with huge marks might feel comfortable about not competing through the 6th jump. This solution would also apply to all other track and field events.
Sounds good on paper, and works in some events, but for sprints/hurdles/jumps what if one venue is 50 degrees and wet and there's a headwind, and the other is 70 and sunny with tailwinds?
Or for a distance runner it's 40 degrees vs 90 degrees.
The current system isn't perfect, but it would be better than pure marks. Fortunately, by taking 12 from each half, the likelihood of a true Nationals contender being left behind have proven to be almost nonexistent.
This reminds me of the stupid HS rule (and it may exist elsewhere too) that says that all jumpers in a jump-off MUST jump at every height. If Athlete A's opponent jumps and misses at the first height, and Ath A is trying to protect a small injury and knows that he probably can't make the height, he's better off 'passing' to the next height. But Atl A has to 'pretend' to try the height and 'fool' the official that he tried. And then the official has to read the intent in the mind of Ath A (clairvoyantly, I guess) to decide whether to DQ him!!??
Two javelin throwers in the East prelims passed on their 4th round throws. They're going to be very mad when they find out their coaches were ignorant of this new rule.
What happens if you are one of the top 12, and you're called and all you do is stand on the runway until time's up (knowing that you have no intention of throwing) and you're called for a time foul...is there an honest effort rule that's in play?
Mighty Favog wrote:Two javelin throwers in the East prelims passed on their 4th round throws. They're going to be very mad when they find out their coaches were ignorant of this new rule.
No ignorance. Pass is allowed. In fact, Treff of VT only took one throw and passed on his final 5. But Zunic of FL continued to throw all the way to the end, even though his first throw was the meet winner.
ATK wrote:A handful in the long jump passed a few of their remaining jumps as well.
A handful? How about the top 7! And the online results show them all as qualified for Des Moines. I can't imagine that everyone down there has it all wrong.
ATK wrote:Well the men's discus turned out to be the only event where no one passed.
This is the problem with a meet where there's no incentive to finish first. Winning means you make the top 12 and if you're locked into a high position, why risk injury before the BIG meet?
ATK wrote:A handful in the long jump passed a few of their remaining jumps as well.
A handful? How about the top 7! And the online results show them all as qualified for Des Moines. I can't imagine that everyone down there has it all wrong.
What wrong? The rule says you MUST participate in the next round, but a pass IS 'participation'. My question remains, why must you 'participate' in the next round, if you are already qualified?
They were very clear on this is the coaches meeting before the meet. An athlete can pass an attempt, but has to be there physically to do it. Maybe there is a rational explanation for this rule, but I don't know what it is.
Marlow wrote:What wrong? The rule says you MUST participate in the next round, but a pass IS 'participation'. My question remains, why must you 'participate' in the next round, if you are already qualified?
I guess technically, at least until after the first attempt of the 6th round, no one is already qualified. Of course, if you've LJed 30' in the first round, it wouldn't be a stretch to consider yourself "presumably" qualified.
decafan wrote:They were very clear on this is the coaches meeting before the meet. An athlete can pass an attempt, but has to be there physically to do it. Maybe there is a rational explanation for this rule, but I don't know what it is.
Marlow wrote:This reminds me of the stupid HS rule (and it may exist elsewhere too) that says that all jumpers in a jump-off MUST jump at every height. If Athlete A's opponent jumps and misses at the first height, and Ath A is trying to protect a small injury and knows that he probably can't make the height, he's better off 'passing' to the next height. But Atl A has to 'pretend' to try the height and 'fool' the official that he tried. And then the official has to read the intent in the mind of Ath A (clairvoyantly, I guess) to decide whether to DQ him!!??
That's not stupid, it makes sense. The athletes are tied, so there should be no advantage between them over who is jumping first or second. Athlete 1 would always be at an unfair disadvantage if Athlete 2 could pass and have fresher legs while Athlete 1 could never pass.
Marlow wrote:This reminds me of the stupid HS rule (and it may exist elsewhere too) that says that all jumpers in a jump-off MUST jump at every height. If Athlete A's opponent jumps and misses at the first height, and Ath A is trying to protect a small injury and knows that he probably can't make the height, he's better off 'passing' to the next height. But Atl A has to 'pretend' to try the height and 'fool' the official that he tried. And then the official has to read the intent in the mind of Ath A (clairvoyantly, I guess) to decide whether to DQ him!!??
That's not stupid, it makes sense. The athletes are tied, so there should be no advantage between them over who is jumping first or second. Athlete 1 would always be at an unfair disadvantage if Athlete 2 could pass and have fresher legs while Athlete 1 could never pass.
Do you happen to know if there's a rule for NCAA Prelims about who jumps first in a jump-off with vaulters from different flights. In the jump-off for 12th place in Austin today they seemed to be winging it, like whoever jumps first, jumps first (not sure if they started the clock at exactly the same time, couldn't see that).
j-a-m wrote:Do you happen to know if there's a rule for NCAA Prelims about who jumps first in a jump-off with vaulters from different flights. In the jump-off for 12th place in Austin today they seemed to be winging it, like whoever jumps first, jumps first (not sure if they started the clock at exactly the same time, couldn't see that).
I don't think they have specified many details for an administrative jump-off like that in prelims. In theory it shouldn't matter who jumps in what order in a jump-off.
Marlow wrote:This reminds me of the stupid HS rule (and it may exist elsewhere too) that says that all jumpers in a jump-off MUST jump at every height. If Athlete A's opponent jumps and misses at the first height, and Ath A is trying to protect a small injury and knows that he probably can't make the height, he's better off 'passing' to the next height. But Atl A has to 'pretend' to try the height and 'fool' the official that he tried. And then the official has to read the intent in the mind of Ath A (clairvoyantly, I guess) to decide whether to DQ him!!??
That's not stupid, it makes sense. The athletes are tied, so there should be no advantage between them over who is jumping first or second. Athlete 1 would always be at an unfair disadvantage if Athlete 2 could pass and have fresher legs while Athlete 1 could never pass.
But my question is: who judges 'intent'? If one jumper runs out of time or jumps under the bar, was that an attempt? If I walk up to the bar and touch it, is that an attempt? If you don't WANT to make an attempt, isn't that YOUR business? How can they MAKE you take a 'competitive' attempt? It's pretty easy to fake it.
