Did Lagat let El Guerrouj Win in Athens?

[ALLSpeed]

Have a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvgxVjO-8o

Sure looks like it to me.

[Dutra5]

No

[DentyCracker]

No, gave it his all and El G just dug deep and found what it took to win. One of the greatest 1500m races of all time

[DrJay]

Sure, and Ryun let Keino win in Mexico City, and Walker let Bayi win in Christchurch, and Pre let Viren win in Munich, and Quax let Viren win in Montreal, and Tergat let Geb win in Sydney, and......

[Bruce Kritzler]

Lagat probably ran an 800 pr (1:46) to finish that race, still got beat.

[mump boy]

it looks like nothing of the sort, what a totally disrespectful thing to say about both athletes

[ALLSpeed]

That last 20 meters doesn't seem to reveal El G digging deep as much as Bernard without any fight. When has Lagat not fought to the finish. Look at his arms? He's not tying up!

Just had to get some input from real students of the sport.

Last 20 meters? Is that Lagat?

[gibson]

lagat was fighting like mad the last 600m and especially the last 300m.
he was finally gassed in the last 10 m.

el g on the other hand ran the first 700m in the outside of lane 2 with no drafting, and the last 800 in front with no drafting.

while lagat was drafting pretty much the whole way on the rail.

el g in this race was actually 30 meters better than the field but won it by 1.
dumb, but he won.
coe ran a dumb one too in LA but got the result.

it is tough to say why guys like ovett could draft well while most other guys have no clue.

[mump boy]

lagat was fighting like mad the last 600m and especially the last 300m.
he was finally gassed in the last 10 m.

el g on the other hand ran the first 700m in the outside of lane 2 with no drafting, and the last 800 in front with no drafting.

while lagat was drafting pretty much the whole way on the rail.

el g in this race was actually 30 meters better than the field but won it by 1.
dumb, but he won.
coe ran a dumb one too in LA but got the result.

it is tough to say why guys like ovett could draft well while most other guys have no clue.

30m better than the field ? he wasn't even the fastest in the world that year

[gh]

Not a chance on the planet. And I was standing about about 25m from the finish, 15-20 rows up, as I recall. One of the great homestretch battles it has ever been my pleasure to watch.

And if you're gonna come up conspiracy-theory scenarios, then you need to come up with a rationale for it. Like the Moroccan secret police were holding Bernard's wife hostage, or......

[jeremyp]

Must be a slow news day. What an insult to both runners! Lagat clearly went too early and ELG had a fifth gear. It was one of the great stretch runs of any Olympics . I wanted ELG to win bad and not go out with another silver and he and Lagat went bollocks out to the tape.
Next: did ELG ley Ngeny win so he'd get another 4 years of Morroccan largesse?

[vip]

You know, I'm not gonna say Lagat let him win. But it's strange, when I saw the title of this thread, I said to myself: That's exactly the way it appeared to me when I first saw it years ago! Now, as a competitor, there's no way in hell Lagat, even as nice a guy as he is, would let anyone deprive him of gold. But watching that finish many times, to me it gave the appearance (which is different than "intentional") that he let up at the end.

If you say he was out of gas, then fine. I accept it. Again, I don't think it was anything more than that. But I've seen many people run out of gas and not look like Lagat did.

[mump boy]

You know, I'm not gonna say Lagat let him win. But it's strange, when I saw the title of this thread, I said to myself: That's exactly the way it appeared to me when I first saw it years ago! Now, as a competitor, there's no way in hell Lagat, even as nice a guy as he is, would let anyone deprive him of gold. But watching that finish many times, to me it gave the appearance (which is different than "intentional") that he let up at the end.

If you say he was out of gas, then fine. I accept it. Again, I don't think it was anything more than that. But I've seen many people run out of gas and not look like Lagat did.

He did let up at the end, it was about 5m to the line and he was beat, give the guy a break.

[DrJay]

Over the last 800, El G ran each 100 meters faster than the previous, I believe all the way to the end. In fact, I suspect he ran each meter marginally faster than the previous one.

[jlt]

You know, I'm not gonna say Lagat let him win. But it's strange, when I saw the title of this thread, I said to myself: That's exactly the way it appeared to me when I first saw it years ago! Now, as a competitor, there's no way in hell Lagat, even as nice a guy as he is, would let anyone deprive him of gold. But watching that finish many times, to me it gave the appearance (which is different than "intentional") that he let up at the end.

If you say he was out of gas, then fine. I accept it. Again, I don't think it was anything more than that. But I've seen many people run out of gas and not look like Lagat did.

He did let up at the end, it was about 5m to the line and he was beat, give the guy a break.

Exactly correct. Yes on reflection perhaps he went 30-40m too early (just like Berlin 5000 vs KB).....if you get past 30 to go you give very little chance to come back. This is not being critical because it's so hard to be spot on at the end of such a tight race......Bernard acknowledges this and in his own words "it's so tough, you come around the bend and the finish line is RIGHT THERE!!" it's so difficult at the end of a tough race to be patient.
But he was gone with 10 to go (53 for third lap and 38-low for last 300 is incredible......can only remember Abdi Bile in 1987 as finishing like that....)

[26mi235]

1:46 and the 800-700 segment was barely under 15, so the close was really fast: 53.28/38.98 = 1:32.26 for the last 700. His 700->800 was only ~14.63 while his average for the last 700 was 13.18, so that same 13.18 would give a 1:45:44 rather than 1:46.9.

Here is what I get for the marks

700 1:47.3
800 2:01.93
1100 2:42.19
1200 2:55.21
1500 3:34.19

[odelltrclan]

That has to go down as one of the best races of all time. El G showed what amazing talent he had as well as Lagat. No way Lagat lets El G win. I especially loved the sportsmanship Lagat showed after the race was over. He is one classy guy as he has shown time and again.

[jlt]

That has to go down as one of the best races of all time. El G showed what amazing talent he had as well as Lagat. No way Lagat lets El G win. I especially loved the sportsmanship Lagat showed after the race was over. He is one classy guy as he has shown time and again.

Correct on all counts. Trust me he was desperate to win in Athens. Same too he was in Beijing and same as he will be in London. He will give every last ounce of everything he has to win. He always does. Anyone who has ever met him is in no doubt of that. But he will always retain the class and sportsmanship.

[EPelle]

Lagat probably ran an 800 pr (1:46) to finish that race, still got beat.

In each of the seasons prior to 2004 where he'd run an 800m, none of them had been faster than 1.46,00. So, Lagat's closing 800m has him running at his maximum effort. Faster and stronger El G kept him at bay. Simple as that.

[paw]

and Hicham El Guerrouj ran in second lane most of the race, maybe because of fear for falling like he did in the finals of the 1500 meters in Atlanta, so he must have covered more ground than Lagat, who ran in the first lane most of his way.

[gibson]

and Hicham El Guerrouj ran in second lane most of the race, maybe because of fear for falling like he did in the finals of the 1500 meters in Atlanta, so he must have covered more ground than Lagat, who ran in the first lane most of his way.

that would explain it!.

[paw]

lagat was fighting like mad the last 600m and especially the last 300m.
he was finally gassed in the last 10 m.

el g on the other hand ran the first 700m in the outside of lane 2 with no drafting, and the last 800 in front with no drafting.

while lagat was drafting pretty much the whole way on the rail.
.

My mistake to overlook that:

Gibson: I'm sorry, you had already told, what I was trying to say!

[4:24-miler]

Have a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvgxVjO-8o

Sure looks like it to me.

If anyone let up at the end it was bronze medalist Rui Sliva LoL! About 20 meters from the finish Silva looks back, and seeing he had the bronze in hand, slowed up. I timed him in about 51.4 seconds for his last 400. His last 800m was in about 1:46.3.

[SQUACKEE]

First, full disclosure, Lagat is one of my favorite humans.

It is more likely that Abe Lincoln let James Wilkes Booth shoot him in the back.