Sexist members at Augusta to be taken out and thrashed

[Daisy]

So if an important organization, that YOU saw a great benefit in joining, saw fit to exclude Native Americans, for no other reasons that it did not want NAs, you'd be OK with that?

It's hard to imagine where the benefits would out way his desire not to interact with such people.

[Marlow]

So if an important organization, that YOU saw a great benefit in joining, saw fit to exclude Native Americans, for no other reasons that it did not want NAs, you'd be OK with that?

It's hard to imagine where the benefits would out way his desire not to interaction with such people.

Because, the rules are typically the action of one arch-moron, to whom the rest of the membership meekly defer. There may be many 'good people' (though somewhat cowardly) and a great cause that the organization has.

[Daisy]

So if an important organization, that YOU saw a great benefit in joining, saw fit to exclude Native Americans, for no other reasons that it did not want NAs, you'd be OK with that?

It's hard to imagine where the benefits would out way his desire not to interact with such people.

Because, the rules are typically the action of one arch-moron, to whom the rest of the membership meekly defer. There may be many 'good people' (though somewhat cowardly) and a great cause that the organization has.

On the other hand, birds of a feather flock together.

[Pego]

So if an important organization, that YOU saw a great benefit in joining, saw fit to exclude Native Americans, for no other reasons that it did not want NAs, you'd be OK with that?

It's hard to imagine where the benefits would out way his desire not to interact with such people.

Because, the rules are typically the action of one arch-moron, to whom the rest of the membership meekly defer. There may be many 'good people' (though somewhat cowardly) and a great cause that the organization has.

On the other hand, birds of a feather flock together.

I know several wives of the Country Club crowd that would not bat an eye if they could not be members as long as they are invited to all those dinners and social engagements as a spouse of a member. One of those facts of life...

[Daisy]

Pego, that makes sense since if they're married to one of those birds they must be able to tolerate them.

[Conor Dary]

I know several wives of the Country Club crowd that would not bat an eye if they could not be members as long as they are invited to all those dinners and social engagements as a spouse of a member. One of those facts of life...

Ain't that the truth.

[Pego]

Pego, that makes sense since if they're married to one of those birds they must be able to tolerate them.

You would not believe how many of those Phyllis Schlafly's are there in this world.

[lonewolf]

A person's sex, religion, wealth, skill level or outside accomplishment is immaterial..no one has an inherent right to demand membership in any private club.
Just my opinion.

So if an important organization, that YOU saw a great benefit in joining, saw fit to exclude Native Americans, for no other reasons that it did not want NAs, you'd be OK with that? And if they discriminate against your children or grandchildren, oh, let's say, it's a certain 'private' youth soccer organization, that would be just fine with you too?

Late in replying.. been out attending some heavily integrated soccer games.
Since the games are played at various city venues, I don't think the sponsoring organization is truly private.
But, yup, if the sacrosanct soccer organization is truly "privately" funded and venued, it can pick its members any way they choose.. don't want to go where I am not wanted...
Native American organizations have the same right to discriminate.. and do.. There are Indian Baseball Leagues and tournaments that play on public facilities..nobody bitches.. If the Harlem Globetrotters have ever had a non-black player I am not aware of it...Hooters was perfectly right to refuse to hire a skinny white guy as a Hooters Girl.. Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts do not have a right to belong to the Girl Scouts/Boy Scouts, even though those are pretty public organizations.
And if 11 year old Charlie Lonewolf is not allowed to play on a team because he has a smidgen of Choctaw/Comanche blood, it will only be because they have not seen him play point guard and drain 3s.

[SQUACKEE]

Once you recognize that the KKK has a right to exist and have meetings, (no one hates them more then me) what else is there to say. Last time I checked, the KKK are fairly non-inclusive.
I would love to join the crowd, enjoying our freedom of speech, as they marched by.

One of my fears is being somewhere where I'm not wanted, if I was a women I believe my feeling would be that all those old farts at Augusta can go #@@$%$$##, and with no women around that might be likely.

[Marlow]

don't want to go where I am not wanted

oh dear, if that's how everyone felt, we'd be right back in Jim Crow.

[kuha]

don't want to go where I am not wanted

oh dear, if that's how everyone felt, we'd be right back in Jim Crow.

Marlow is right. That attitude excuses way too many sins.

[Pego]

Marlow & kuha, a simple observation. Both of you belong to a "privileged class," those that segregate instead of being excluded. Lonewolf and I belong to the class commonly excluded. That fence looks a lot different from each side. Trying to crash the party that does not want you is no fun. That said, you are right, of course.

[kuha]

Marlow & kuha, a simple observation. Both of you belong to a "privileged class," those that segregate instead of being excluded. Lonewolf and I belong to the class commonly excluded. That fence looks a lot different from each side. Trying to crash the party that does not want you is no fun. That said, you are right, of course.

I think you overestimate the "eliteness" of our (or at least my) upbringing. My grandfather was a farmer; my parents were high school teachers. But the gist of all this is your last sentence. What precedes it isn't genuinely necessary.

[Marlow]

Marlow & kuha, a simple observation. Both of you belong to a "privileged class," those that segregate instead of being excluded

We are both painfully aware of that. That's one of the reasons we can't stand 'exclusivity'; we grew up in it and see it for what it really is - hate. Of course it is more painful to you, the recipient, but TOGETHER we can overcome it (cue stirring music and clenched fists!)

edit - oh I see kuha has demurred to elitist status - I cannot - I have been given every advantage all my life (ironically, since my father was 'just' a school teacher also).

[Conor Dary]

Marlow & kuha, a simple observation. Both of you belong to a "privileged class," those that segregate instead of being excluded. Lonewolf and I belong to the class commonly excluded. That fence looks a lot different from each side. Trying to crash the party that does not want you is no fun. That said, you are right, of course.

I think you overestimate the "eliteness" of our (or at least my) upbringing. My grandfather was a farmer; my parents were high school teachers. But the gist of all this is your last sentence. What precedes it isn't genuinely necessary.

I agree. I have seen kuha mingle with the hoi polloi quite often.

Speaking of class, England takes the cake when it comes to that.

Which reminds of a scene in the best Titanic movie A Night to Remember---on TCM tonight and far superior to the Cameron movie---where the boat is on its last legs and a bunch of Irishmen from steerage break through a gate and come upon the first class dining room that is all set for the morning breakfast. And instead of just crashing through they all stop as if they had come upon a complete forbidden area. A subtle and wonderful scene that says alot more about class hierarchy than Billy Zane's over the top nuttiness.

[Pego]

I agree. I have seen kuha mingle with the hoi polloi quite often.

Well, duh. He even speaks to the likes of Daisy and me, that liberal soul .

[Conor Dary]

I agree. I have seen kuha mingle with the hoi polloi quite often.

Well, duh. He even speaks to the likes of Daisy and me, that liberal soul .

Daisy? The guy who hangs out in the Long Room at Lords and the Diogenes Club?

[kuha]

This is true: I've just come from a Cub Scout pinewood derby. I may not score 100% on the NRA "ordinary Joe" scale, but I'm very far from zero.

[Marlow]

This is true: I've just come from a Cub Scout pinewood derby. I may not score 100% on the NRA "ordinary Joe" scale, but I'm very far from zero.

I live in the uber-Deep South (too far south to be considered Southern!), but I chaws me some tabacky, have lots of guns that I 'stand my ground' with, have a sunburned nape, and drives a pick-me-up truck, with a confed . . . oh sorry, I choked on my giggles . . . I consider myself just an "ordinary Percival".

[Daisy]

Daisy? The guy who hangs out in the Long Room at Lords and the Diogenes Club?

I resigned in disgust when I discovered that 221B Baker Street is not a real address.

[Friar]

There were no members like Czervik when I was at the club (to caddy/play cards).
http://totalfratmove.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/2633ff59245749778b58837a3c5a0db91220413087.jpg

It's changed no question (from NoEuro,Wasp,Anglo Cats only). But how much I don't know? Most clubs aren't like this no matter how high the membership fees.

[Rye Catcher]

I Think I mentioned earlier that Augusta National turned Bill Gates of Microsoft down for membership when he applied. He's practically head of the world so why would they be worried about some lady who heads a dying company like IBM. They would have most likely turned down Steve Jobs had he applied.

BTW, for your info, Augusta National is not expensive to join nor are the monthly fees that high. Being that they run the finest golf tournament in the world and make tons of money doing it, do I need to say more?

There is a more exclusive country club out in Pebble beach called Cypress, which used to be one of the courses played during the old Crosby, now the ATT, and when they were pressured to do something they cared not to do or lose their PGA acceptance, they said "screw you" and bailed. I do not know what it costs to join, but I am told the annual dues are easy, they total up all the annual costs and divide by the number of members, and that is their individual annual fees. It is considered one of the finest courses in the world to play. Ask Bam Bam.

[SQUACKEE]

I just formed the worlds most exclusive club! NO ONE is allowed to join except me! hahahahaha
WINNING!

[Rye Catcher]

I just formed the worlds most exclusive club! NO ONE is allowed to join except me! hahahahaha
WINNING!

I love it. What are the dues?

[Daisy]

NO ONE is allowed to join

How come noone can join?

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=748

[Rye Catcher]

NO ONE is allowed to join

How come noone can join?

https://www.trackandfieldnews.com/discu ... file&u=748

Cause no one wants a guy named Daisy in their very exclusive club.

[lonewolf]

I've lost track of whose feathers I have ruffled on what subjects so, believing that people's opinions on a given issue are the inexplicable and convoluted product of heredity, environment and innate personal quirks and that no one ever changed anyone else's mind about anything, instead of examining the yeng and yang of every issue, in the interest of efficiency I am issuing, without retracting, an apology to anyone I may have unintentionally offended and granting blanket forgiveness/amnesty to everyone who does not wholeheartedly agreeing with me on every topic.

[Marlow]

I am issuing, without retracting, an apology to anyone I may have unintentionally offended and granting blanket forgiveness/amnesty to everyone who does not wholeheartedly agreeing with me on every topic.

Apology NOT accepted!
If we all agreed on everything, what would the fun be of that??!!

[Rye Catcher]

Notes from the Masters...A little folklore.

There is no shortage of folklore surrounding this storied event:

Clifford Roberts is widely and justifiably credited with making the Augusta National and the Masters the golf institutions they are today. When it came to the tournament, Roberts was the man who took charge and usually had the last word.

One year he wanted to shift the tournament's dates, so it could be played a week earlier in April. "The problem, Cliff," a committee member pointed out, "is that the final day would fall on Easter Sunday." "Well, find out who's in charge of scheduling Easter this year," said
Roberts, "and get them to move it."

Another year during the Masters, Cliff Roberts heard reports that certain people in the gallery were making a lot of noise and bothering the players. Roberts hopped in his cart and drove out to investigate. When he got there, he discovered that the culprits were television star Jackie
Gleason and some of his comic friends. Roberts took their badges and ordered the Pinkerton guards to escort them off the property. "This is the Augusta National, not Broadway," he told Gleason.

Augusta National and CBS operate under a series of one-year contracts, which give the club enormous leverage in making suggestions as to how the telecasts might be enhanced. One year it occurred to Roberts that someone of extraordinary stature would be needed to open the telecast. Whomever he had in mind, however, was was a far cry from the person CBS proposed: Ed Sullivan, whose variety show was one of the longer running hits on the CBS network. "Ed Sullivan?" Roberts replied. "Never! Why, that man runs monkey acts on his show."

Roberts was a brilliant investor who had made millions in the stock market. Because he was especially fond of Byron Nelson he offered to assist Nelson with his investments. When Nelson told him of his plans to retire eventually from golf and buy a ranch in Texas, Roberts advised against it. Still, Nelson was determined, and in 1946 he virtually retired from competitive golf and bought the ranch. Several years later, he got a phone call from Roberts. "Byron, I just heard that Ben Hogan and some partners are building a golf course a few miles rom your ranch," Roberts said. "Is that true?" Nelson confirmed that it was. "They tell me that Ben and his people bought twenty-five hundred acres and that they paid $3,500 an acre," Roberts said.
"I believe that's right," Nelson said. "Didn't you once tell me that you paid just $82 an acre for your ranch?" Roberts asked. "That's right," Nelson said. "Byron, the next time we sit down to discuss your investments, remind me to treat you with a little more respect," Roberts said.

In 1972 Ben Crenshaw came to Augusta National to play in his first Masters. He was 21 years old and one of the finest amateurs in the nation. The traditions of the game had always been important to Ben, and playing in the Masters-where fellow Texans Ben Hogan, Byron Nelson and Jimmy Demaret had dominated-was the culmination of a long-held dream. Ben opened with a
first round 73. As he left the scorer's tent and made his way to the clubhouse, he ran into Cliff Roberts who was staring quizzically at his '70s styled plumage. "Did you enjoy your first round in the Masters, Ben?" Roberts asked. "Very much, Mr. Roberts," Crenshaw replied. "That's fine, Ben," said Roberts. "And I think you'll enjoy it a lot more, if you'd get yourself a haircut."

Jack Stephens, who succeeded Hord Hardin as chairman of the Augusta National Golf Club in 1992, is among the wealthiest men in America. His fortune is measured in the billions of dollars, and yet he has never forgotten his modest upbringing in Arkansas. One day Stephens set out to play Augusta with a foursome that included a guest who had just met Stephens for the first time. When they got to the first tee and agreed to a match, the guest was astonished that Stephens suggested playing a $2 Nassau. "Two dollars!" the man said. "Why, I never play for less than a $100 Nassau." He harped on it several times during the match, and when they returned to the clubhouse to play gin, he was even more incredulous upon learning that Stephens wanted to play for a penny a point. "Usually we play for a dollar a point at my club," the man said.
"How much are you worth," Stephens asked in his slow southern drawl. "About $12 million," said the man. Stephens looked him in the eye and with a straight face asked, "Why don't we just cut the cards for it?" And with that, the game proceeded smoothly for a penny a point.

[bambam]

Here's one reason why I didn't watch the Masters two years ago and I won't watch it this year:

http://www.newser.com/story/143408/teed ... gusta.html

Not the only club. Butler National here in town would be an ideal US Open site however there is a similar problem.

Mickelson, Donald endorse Butler National as major venue
Oak Brook club poised to vote in next 2 months on whether to admit female members

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012 ... brook-club

When I was on tour (1975-79), Butler National was the host club for the Western Open - all men's clubs were allowed back then. It was, by far, the hardest course on the PGA Tour, and
we didn't even play the back tees. A few of them were downright scary, but with the new clubs and balls, they would probably fit nicely and it would still be brutally difficult.

An aside, by the way, the course record for the back nine at Butler is (?was) 30. It was shot in the second round of the 1976 Western Open by a struggling rookie, who shot 70 - 40-30. I played pretty good that day coming in. Ended up finishing 6th in the tournament - my best finish at that time on tour - oh yeah, also met my wife that week, and we got married a little over a year later.

[bambam]

Do all you outraged people think women in general are equal in ability to men in golf?

In ability? Yes.
In overall body strength? No.
Isinbayeva is way better in ability than the current men jumping, but since she's a woman, she can't jump as high.
Next question?

Your answer makes no sense since you completely contradict yourself.



My next question is, there are only a handful of golf courses that don't allow women, just like there are a handful of other institutions that don't allow men, why the big fuss? There are way more golf courses, some better than Augusta that anyone can golf at. Are we so ingrained to make everything the same that we lose any sense of reality to political correctness? Plus not all men are allowed membership to Augusta, do you protest that too?

There have also been several all-female golf clubs in the USA and Canada, but I don't think any of them are around anymore.

[bambam]

I Think I mentioned earlier that Augusta National turned Bill Gates of Microsoft down for membership when he applied. He's practically head of the world so why would they be worried about some lady who heads a dying company like IBM. They would have most likely turned down Steve Jobs had he applied.

BTW, for your info, Augusta National is not expensive to join nor are the monthly fees that high. Being that they run the finest golf tournament in the world and make tons of money doing it, do I need to say more?

There is a more exclusive country club out in Pebble beach called Cypress, which used to be one of the courses played during the old Crosby, now the ATT, and when they were pressured to do something they cared not to do or lose their PGA acceptance, they said "screw you" and bailed. I do not know what it costs to join, but I am told the annual dues are easy, they total up all the annual costs and divide by the number of members, and that is their individual annual fees. It is considered one of the finest courses in the world to play. Ask Bam Bam.

That is correct about Cypress, both about it choosing not to be on the PGA Tour anymore and its exclusivity, and it being the best of the course on the Monterey Peninsula, except for the 18th hole, which is bizarre. It is also correct about how dues are assessed, although that it is not that uncommon among the uber-exclusive, uber-rich country clubs. Most likely the same with Augusta National. I have actually heard that Augusta has no membership dues, because they make so much money from the Masters. They simply ask prospective members to pay an initiation fee and then you're in. Hard to tell, I have several friends who are members but they are very close lipped about the place.

[Marlow]

Do all you outraged people think women in general are equal in ability to men in golf?

In ability? Yes.
In overall body strength? No.
Isinbayeva is way better in ability than the current men jumping, but since she's a woman, she can't jump as high.
Next question?

Your answer makes no sense since you completely contradict yourself.

Oh, you must not be a native English speaker. I apologize for confusing you with the nuances of our language.

[Rye Catcher]

Is this possible? Is the PGA two faced in allowing Augusta a major with no ladies as members, but preventing Butler a major unless it allows the ladies? Is she a super secret member?

"Membership restrictions are again a hot topic at Augusta National, which historically has invited the heads of Masters sponsors IBM, Exxon and AT&T to wear green jackets.

IBM named Virginia "Ginni" Rometty its CEO and president in January. According to reports that club officials never would confirm — almost everything here is a secret — the last four CEOs of IBM have been Augusta National members.

Some speculate that Rometty, a Northwestern alumna who sits on the school's board of trustees, already is a member."

[Pego]

Is this possible? Is the PGA two faced in allowing Augusta a major with no ladies as members, but preventing Butler a major unless it allows the ladies?

My understanding of Conor Dary's post is that the PGA will not choose the discriminating clubs for the US Open.