About That London US Women's 4x100

[guru]

Everything just changed - Marshevet Hooker is pregnant. A huge loss both in terms of speed as well as experience for a team that was a legitimate threat for the world record.

[CookyMonzta]

Everything just changed - Marshevet Hooker is pregnant. A huge loss both in terms of speed as well as experience for a team that was a legitimate threat for the world record.

OY!!! I think I swallowed my gum! Congratulations to her, anyway. Family comes before anything, including the Olympics.

Be that as it may, a potential 10.7x runner (who has a 10.76w in her back pocket) is off the board for this relay squad. If the U.S. has any chance of breaking the WR (unless Jamaica gets there first), the college girls or recent grads need need to step up fast! Right now, I'm thinking Shalonda Solomon on either curve (probably the leadoff), with Alexandria Anderson taking Marshevet's place on the back straight, and any of the following on the other turn: Felix, Knight, Gardner, Tarmoh or Duncan.

[guru]

Certainly good news for Bianca Knight, who looked to be the odd woman out with the emergence of Tianna Madison. Right now you'd have to think she has the inside track, though it will bear watching how wildcard UCF frosh Octavious Freeman develops over the next few months following her 11.10 last Friday.

And then, there's Sanya...

[CookyMonzta]

Certainly good news for Bianca Knight, who looked to be the odd woman out with the emergence of Tianna Madison. Right now you'd have to think she has the inside track, though it will bear watching how wildcard UCF frosh Octavious Freeman develops over the next few months following her 11.10 last Friday.

And then, there's Sanya...

Oooh...Tianna...I forgot about her. And if the Barber twins get up to speed, what then?

Jeter and Anderson have the first 2 spots locked up in the open 100. I think the 3rd spot is going to be a mess to predict.

[usafa]

Everything just changed - Marshevet Hooker is pregnant. A huge loss both in terms of speed as well as experience for a team that was a legitimate threat for the world record.

OY!!! I think I swallowed my gum! Congratulations to her, anyway. Family comes before anything, including the Olympics.

i did not read gum!

[Speedster]

After Jeter it's wide open and for competition's sake that's a good thing! Hooker can take comfort in Lashinda Demus and her successful return, along with many others who have come back strong after having children.

Knight, Anderson, Solomon, Jeter is my early pick, but I don't think that's enough to take Fraser-Pryce, Simpson, Stewart, VCB.

[fortyacresandamule]

Hooker not being on the 4x1, that should be no panic for the USA. She is replacable with either a veteran like Muna Lee, or even Alexander Anderson or a load of other new comers ( Gardner, Freeman, Tarmoh, Mcgrone etc). Their relay pool is deep and can still beat JA to the gold even without Hooker. Any combination of :

Jeter
Lee
Knight
Felix
Anderson
Gardener
Tarmoh
Mcgrone
Freeman
Duncan
Brookins
Richards
Solomon

Is good to go.

[t_monk]

US won that 4x100 last year BECAUSE of Myers. She was the 2nd best 100m runner the US and I am quite convinced would have been the the 2nd fastest 100m runner in the US this year. She is a 10.8x and 22.1x runner. On the fly she is probably second only to Myers over 100. Myers' 3rd leg wasn't just good it was great and she carried the baton very well.

She is not as replaceable I would say. That being said though there are a number who could be plugged in the third leg:

1) M. Lee
2) S. Solomon
3) A. Anderson
4) J. Tarmoh
5) B. Knight (I would assume they would move her from 1st to 3rd and plug Madison/Williams in the first leg)

I don't count the collegians for the mere fact that I am not a believer in collegians being able to extend their season so far outdoor, especially if they are sprinters. J. Tarmoh was a perfect example last season, a 22.2x runner at the trials who could not get past the first round at the WC.

[guru]

Not to pick nits, but she's not Myers anymore.

Seriously, assuming Richards-Ross isn't doubling 400/200, she has to be in the discussion after what we saw last week.

[t_monk]

Not to pick nits, but she's not Myers anymore.

Seriously, assuming Richards-Ross isn't doubling 400/200, she has to be in the discussion after what we saw last week.

She'd have to get on some 4x100's in the season, probably at Penns Relay and maybe a one or two meets in the summer as well to prove herself, even with that windy 10.8x.

[CookyMonzta]

Not to pick nits, but she's not Myers anymore.

I take it you're implying that a divorce took place, no? That, I missed.

[guru]

Not to pick nits, but she's not Myers anymore.

I take it you're implying that a divorce took place, no? That, I missed.

Correct, last year. Last I heard she was hanging with Willis McGahee

[t_monk]

Not to pick nits, but she's not Myers anymore.

I take it you're implying that a divorce took place, no? That, I missed.

Correct, last year. Last I heard she was hanging with Willis McGahee

Missed me too!

[guru]

Not to pick nits, but she's not Myers anymore.

Seriously, assuming Richards-Ross isn't doubling 400/200, she has to be in the discussion after what we saw last week.

She'd have to get on some 4x100's in the season, probably at Penns Relay and maybe a one or two meets in the summer as well to prove herself, even with that windy 10.8x.

I agree. I can't help but wonder if that figured into the equation last week.

[ATK]

How many months pregnant? She can pull a 2011 Chaunte Lowe and possibly still make the team.
After Jeter, those next 4 spots for the relay are wide open

[guru]

How many months pregnant? She can pull a 2011 Chaunte Lowe and possibly still make the team.

No. She says she's done for the year.

[jazzcyclist]

US won that 4x100 last year BECAUSE of Myers. She was the 2nd best 100m runner the US and I am quite convinced would have been the the 2nd fastest 100m runner in the US this year. She is a 10.8x and 22.1x runner. On the fly she is probably second only to Myers over 100. Myers' 3rd leg wasn't just good it was great and she carried the baton very well.

I agree with you 100% on Myers, but not so much for her footspeed (although she has plenty of it), but more for her execution. Myers really got out well in Deagu, as opposed to Allyson Felix who was horrendous in her acceleration (Bianca Knight almost ran past her). Part of her problem is her two-point stance; what's up with that anyway? Too many folks on this board worship the false God of 100 PR's and SB's when it comes to assembling 4x100 teams. Personally, I'd be willing to sacrafice 0.1s of footspeed in return for flawless execution. At the elite level, the difference between making the pass at the beginning of the zone and at the end of the zone is approximately 0.3s per exchange.

I don't count the collegians for the mere fact that I am not a believer in collegians being able to extend their season so far outdoor, especially if they are sprinters. J. Tarmoh was a perfect example last season, a 22.2x runner at the trials who could not get past the first round at the WC.

There are a lot of folks who would disagree with this, and have the results to back it up (eg. Jeemy Wariner, Richard Thompson, Walter Dix, Lauryn Williams, Veronica Campbell, Kirani James, etc.).

[t_monk]

I agree with you 100% on Myers, but not so much for her footspeed (although she has plenty of it), but more for her execution. Myers really got out well in Deagu, as opposed to Allyson Felix who was horrendous in her acceleration (Bianca Knight almost ran past her). Part of her problem is her two-point stance; what's up with that anyway? Too many folks on this board worship the false God of 100 PR's and SB's when it comes to assembling 4x100 teams. Personally, I'd be willing to sacrafice 0.1s of footspeed in return for flawless execution. At the elite level, the difference between making the pass at the beginning of the zone and at the end of the zone is approximately 0.3s per exchange.

I don't count the collegians for the mere fact that I am not a believer in collegians being able to extend their season so far outdoor, especially if they are sprinters. J. Tarmoh was a perfect example last season, a 22.2x runner at the trials who could not get past the first round at the WC.

There are a lot of folks who would disagree with this, and have the results to back it up (eg. Jeemy Wariner, Richard Thompson, Walter Dix, Lauryn Williams, Veronica Campbell, Kirani James, etc.).

Hooker had superior foot speed to SS who was probably the second fastest of anyone on that 3rd leg. Also I would be surprised if come this summer she wouldn't have been 10.8x/10.7x around Olympics time. She in my mind would have been a clear #2 to Jeter in the US. But you are very right in regards to her execution on that 3rd leg. Her starts are always skeptic but she has excellent top end speed and runs a very good curve. She gets out well, collects the baton efficiently and extends well when handing out the baton. You can see that she has been practicing for that leg for years now (I think she's been more or less practicing that leg since 2008 and have been practicing it with Jeter since 2009). The only person who has practiced that leg as much as her at the elite level is M. Lee thus her being top on my list of replacements. If Lee gets down to 11.0x or 22.1x I think she would be the best person to plug into that leg irrespective of whoever else is faster than her.

I've noticed that a number of collegians have been able to break out but not a lot of them from schools chasing NCAA titles and the likes of VC, LW, Dix, Thompson. Wariner and James are exceptions due to their prodigious talent.

[26mi235]

Yes, those Florida schools vying for the NCAA championship really hurt their jumpers when it came to the WCs...

I get your point, and it is valid to a degree, but it can easily be taken too far. I would take this implication: If there is one of these athletes, then do not count on it too much; if there are a number of them, some will come good come the Trials and summer peaks.

[DJG]

Certainly good news for Bianca Knight, who looked to be the odd woman out with the emergence of Tianna Madison. Right now you'd have to think she has the inside track, though it will bear watching how wildcard UCF frosh Octavious Freeman develops over the next few months following her 11.10 last Friday.

And then, there's Sanya...

Guru, Last time I saw BK she was false starting at a indoor meet while wearing a track
outfit that appeared to belong to a much smaller athlete. I don't see SRR in the mix for a 4x1 spot, there's plenty of speed to choose from for the US women.

[guru]

DJG - I agree with you regarding Knight. But she didnt belong on it last year either over Anderson, yet there she was.

[jazzcyclist]

DJG - I agree with you regarding Knight. But she didnt belong on it last year either over Anderson, yet there she was.

And if I recall correctly, she did show up for both of the "mandatory" relay camps that some of them skipped, so that should get her extra consideration in my book.

I would suggest that folks on this thread check out the video of the Texas A&M's NCAA women's record race from 2009. Here's the breakdown of the PR's/SB's.

11.60
11.12
11.50
11.13

42.36

You do the math.

This is good, but not great, footspeed, but they executed. As a matter of fact, their 2010 team had more footspeed, but never ran as fast. Not only did the outgoing runners get out well, but none of them even put their hands back to receive the baton until they got into the second half of the zone. Why can't our national team duplicate this sort of passing efficiency?

[ATK]

DJG - I agree with you regarding Knight. But she didnt belong on it last year either over Anderson, yet there she was.

And if I recall correctly, she did show up for both of the "mandatory" relay camps that some of them skipped, so that should get her extra consideration in my book.

I would suggest that folks on this thread check out the video of the Texas A&M's NCAA women's record race from 2009. Here's the breakdown of the PR's/SB's.

11.60
11.12
11.50
11.13

42.36

You do the math.

This is good, but not great, footspeed, but they executed. As a matter of fact, their 2010 team had more footspeed, but never ran as fast. Not only did the outgoing runners get out well, but none of them even put their hands back to receive the baton until they got into the second have of the zone. Why can't our national team duplicate this sort of passing efficiency?

Cant compare a college team that trains together everyday, to pro athletes who meet about 5 times(or less?) a year for baton work.

[26mi235]

Cant compare a college team that trains together everyday, to pro athletes who meet about 5 times(or less?) a year for baton work.

Sure you can compare them because it is central to the point being made, that practice and passing ability can trump Open 100 marks, often substantially. It can be a little misleading if the last three of these gals (especially 11.5/11.6) were mediocre out of the blocks, but a 'little misleading and a second faster per 'rolling-start leg' trumps even what the French managed. It also implies that the US men could beat even the fastest quartet of Jamaicans if the same passing efficiency was achieved (although getting that kind of passing efficiency at the speed of a 36 is different than at the speed of a 42).

[mump boy]

Not to pick nits, but she's not Myers anymore.

I take it you're implying that a divorce took place, no? That, I missed.

Correct, last year. Last I heard she was hanging with Willis McGahee

And i heard he's already got 7 kids with 7 different women

http://blogs.bet.com/celebrities/entert ... dbeat-dad/

[ATK]

Cant compare a college team that trains together everyday, to pro athletes who meet about 5 times(or less?) a year for baton work.

Sure you can compare them because it is central to the point being made, that practice and passing ability can trump Open 100 marks, often substantially. It can be a little misleading if the last three of these gals (especially 11.5/11.6) were mediocre out of the blocks, but a 'little misleading and a second faster per 'rolling-start leg' trumps even what the French managed. It also implies that the US men could beat even the fastest quartet of Jamaicans if the same passing efficiency was achieved (although getting that kind of passing efficiency at the speed of a 36 is different than at the speed of a 42).

I was going for the practice makes perfect idea for the passing efficiency.

[jazzcyclist]

Why can't our national team duplicate this sort of passing efficiency?

Cant compare a college team that trains together everyday, to pro athletes who meet about 5 times(or less?) a year for baton work.

I never understood why pro athletes, who have been running relays since they were in high school, have to be taught the basics of running a 4x100 when they make national teams. Familiarity with each other should be a trivial matter, once you determine where to locate the go marks in the first practice session. Pro baseball players don't have to be retaught the fundamentals of the double-play every time they're traded from one team to another. All-stars teams turn the double-play just as efficiently and smoothely as regular Major League teams. Why do so many of our elite sprinters seem to not know the fundamentals of the 4x100 relay? Doesn't everyone know that the first and third legs run on the inside of the lane while the second and fourth legs run on the outside? Don't they all know that when the outgoing runner leaves early or late, bad things happen? And don't they know that they are supposed to never reach for the baton, but rather provide a steady target for the incoming runner?

[JumboElliott]

You know how you fix this problem? You put Jeter on the second leg and Felix on the anchor

Knight/Anderson
Jeter
Solomon/Richards-Ross
Felix

That would work perfectly fine. Or you go really radical and you have Jeter lead off.

[Smoke]

You guys love talking this nonsense about creating some mythical relay team of random pro athletes from all over the country that will perfect their hand offs and NOT drop the stick and run real fast. Well here is a newsflash, the Jamaicans hold the wr because they are FASTER not because they have better sticks! We, the USA, held the record and dominated for a spell because we were FASTER! I trump your french wr team with every US team of that era and since then.
Stop your dreaming about one team, etc. Jeter and Felix train and live in the LA area, Bianca trains in Texas, Alex in Texas, Shalonda in Florida, Sanya between Texas and NY, when do you see these ladies getting in that extra practice time you so cherish? And this is just a few ladies we can chose from. If you are not using Felix and jeter on your team, I will wait for nationals, take those 2 and a couple of ladies that meet my criteria of performance, i.e. speed and lets race at worlds.

[guru]

You guys love talking this nonsense about creating some mythical relay team of random pro athletes from all over the country that will perfect their hand offs and NOT drop the stick and run real fast.

Before Hooker exited stage left, I truly felt there was a better than even chance that they would not only win gold, but smash the WR. Now, with EVERY handoff guaranteed to be new, better than even chance stick hits deck(even with Drummond working his magic)

Here's what I'd like to see - TBD(hopefully Madison runs the 100 as well as the 60), Richards-Ross, Felix(move her to three so you have a veteran stick-handler, who also happens to be a 200 specialist, hauling ass into Jeter), Jeter.

Not likely to happen, though I still think it wasn't coincidence Hooker's fellow Longhorn SRR was in that 100 at the Texas Relays

[jazzcyclist]

You guys love talking this nonsense about creating some mythical relay team of random pro athletes from all over the country that will perfect their hand offs and NOT drop the stick and run real fast. Well here is a newsflash, the Jamaicans hold the wr because they are FASTER not because they have better sticks! We, the USA, held the record and dominated for a spell because we were FASTER! I trump your french wr team with every US team of that era and since then.

What's wrong with the teams with superior footspeed passing as well as the teams with the subpar footspeed?

If you are not using Felix and jeter on your team, I will wait for nationals, take those 2 and a couple of ladies that meet my criteria of performance, i.e. speed and lets race at worlds.

Why does Felix start like she's getting ready to run an 800?

[t_monk]

I'd rather put SRR on the curve over Felix if those two are going to be running on the 4x100. Felix has never been an excellent curve runner so why not set her to do what she always does? Set her on the backstretch where she can fly! SRR should either run the 1st or the 3rd leg and leave Jeter on the anchor. Anderson I like but I don't think she should be starting and I don't remember her running a curve really so I don't like the idea of her running the 1st or the 3rd leg.

[Gabriella]

Can the Great Britain team medal in this event? More often than not, either Jamaica or the USA mess up, leaving the other to win comfortably and robbing us of a great battle.

I wonder with the home advantage, can Britain go for a medal ahead of Russia, Bahamas, Trinidad et al?

The Germans have been having relay camp training since the end of last year; 6 men and women are selected and go on a few of these camps throughout the year. I'd like to think Britian do the same, but we don't. If we could make our girls practice together we're in with a shout for a medal.

[mump boy]

I'm sure i just wrote this but it disappeared

There are very few countries outside the top 2 who have 4 runners in the 11.1 range which i hope the UK will have this summer (wishful thinking i know but i'm sticking with it) a team of Jeannette, Jodie, Asha, Abi could be very close to a medal especially if someone inevitably drops the baton, in fact i'm convinced we would have won a medal in Beijing if we'd got the baton round ourselves.

If they did medal it would probably be my favourite track moment of all time

[gh]

DJG - I agree with you regarding Knight. But she didnt belong on it last year either over Anderson, yet there she was.

And if I recall correctly, she did show up for both of the "mandatory" relay camps that some of them skipped, so that should get her extra consideration in my book.

I would suggest that folks on this thread check out the video of the Texas A&M's NCAA women's record race from 2009. Here's the breakdown of the PR's/SB's.

11.60
11.12
11.50
11.13

42.36

You do the math.

This is good, but not great, footspeed, but they executed. As a matter of fact, their 2010 team had more footspeed, but never ran as fast. Not only did the outgoing runners get out well, but none of them even put their hands back to receive the baton until they got into the second half of the zone. Why can't our national team duplicate this sort of passing efficiency?

Because it spends what, 5% as much time practicing passing as do Pat Henry's groups? Despite your later assertion that it's no different than turning a double play with a different player, there's all the difference in the world.