why would anybody want to tweak U.S. health care?

[lonewolf]

[As an aside, are their homeowners that choose not to insure their house?

A few but there a many more who avoid insuring their cars... I have been victimized by two.

[Daisy]

As an aside, are there homeowners that choose not to insure their house?

A few but there a many more who avoid insuring their cars... I have been victimized by two.

I have noticed this too. I'm pretty sure it is illegal to drive uninsured in Britain, and if you get caught they throw the book at you. How would that fly here?

[Pego]

As an aside, are there homeowners that choose not to insure their house?

A few but there a many more who avoid insuring their cars... I have been victimized by two.

I have noticed this too. I'm pretty sure it is illegal to drive uninsured in Britain, and if you get caught they throw the book at you. How would that fly here?

That varies by states.

[mump boy]

The controversy over the US system is completely unfathomable to us

As you can see above, to many of us in USA as well. Opposition to the universal health care coverage is totally incomprehensible to me.

The Republicans have done an amazing job over the last few decades, of persuading people to vote against their best interests

Republicans are clearly stoopid but they might be smart enough to know it's not free speech weekend.

I don't think the Republican party are stupid i think they are often VERY smart, it's voters that have problems

[mump boy]

[The Republicans have done an amazing job over the last few decades, of persuading people to vote against their best interests

Hmmmm??? Does this mean USAians have free rein to critcize UK politics out of season?

It wasn't a criticism, it was an observation

[mump boy]

As an aside, are there homeowners that choose not to insure their house?

A few but there a many more who avoid insuring their cars... I have been victimized by two.

I have noticed this too. I'm pretty sure it is illegal to drive uninsured in Britain, and if you get caught they throw the book at you. How would that fly here?

It's totally illegal.

I was going to compare health insurance to car insurance, isn't it compolsory in US ??

[tandfman]

I think Pego is right--it varies by state. In my state, it's comupulsory. You can't register a car without proof of insurance.

[mump boy]

I think Pego is right--it varies by state. In my state, it's comupulsory. You can't register a car without proof of insurance.

So what happens to someone, if you crash into them, in a state where you don't have to have insurance ??

[Pego]

I think Pego is right--it varies by state. In my state, it's comupulsory. You can't register a car without proof of insurance.

So what happens to someone, if you crash into them, in a state where you don't have to have insurance ??

In those states you have an add-on called "uninsured motorists". Your insurance picks up the slack. I think they have it also in the states with mandatory insurance - after all, not everybody is a law-abiding citizen.

[jeremyp]

My daughter is a liver transplant coordinator for a big mountain west hospital. She says the hardest thing she has to deal with is patients who have worked all their lives, but had no health insurance, being unable to get a liver transplant unless they stop working and get on medicaid, and usually by the time they qualify it's too late.

We've read about Cheney getting a heart transplant, courtesy of the tax payer, while if he had been a working stiff with no insurance he would have been SOL. Europe/Canada does not have this problem. You're sick, we treat you. Which brings it's own problems. My Aunt who lived in the U.K. had to sit on a waiting list for a hip replacement for over a year.

Your Aunt, if she had chosen to, could have had private health insurance and got it done quicker.

I'm not saying it's perfect but there is choice in the UK system. The controversy over the US system is completely unfathomable to us

A widow on a pension. Don't think so. This was back in 1960's.

[jeremyp]

[The Republicans have done an amazing job over the last few decades, of persuading people to vote against their best interests

Hmmmm??? Does this mean USAians have free rein to critcize UK politics out of season?

It wasn't a criticism, it was an observation

And a spot on one at that.

[jeremyp]

Another wonderful story about our health insurance companies, prior to Obama's bill outlawing it: Pre existing condition. 2005 my wife was on COBRA and had a benign brain tumor. All was paid for. 6 months later she's off COBRA and awaiting medicare ( 1 year away). No-one would insure her, except a state insurance at $1,000 per mo/ premium. We tried to get through until medicare but she got diverticulitis and was hospitalized (because her GP would not prescribe anti biotics unless she saw her, and it was the weekend) so.....$5000 later....The hospital did cut us a deal. Pay immediately the insured rate ($2500) and they'd forget the rest. It was a wonderful way to enter retirement.

[mump boy]

My daughter is a liver transplant coordinator for a big mountain west hospital. She says the hardest thing she has to deal with is patients who have worked all their lives, but had no health insurance, being unable to get a liver transplant unless they stop working and get on medicaid, and usually by the time they qualify it's too late.

We've read about Cheney getting a heart transplant, courtesy of the tax payer, while if he had been a working stiff with no insurance he would have been SOL. Europe/Canada does not have this problem. You're sick, we treat you. Which brings it's own problems. My Aunt who lived in the U.K. had to sit on a waiting list for a hip replacement for over a year.

Your Aunt, if she had chosen to, could have had private health insurance and got it done quicker.

I'm not saying it's perfect but there is choice in the UK system. The controversy over the US system is completely unfathomable to us

A widow on a pension. Don't think so. This was back in 1960's.

I wasn't suggesting that she could or should just that it is an option. Some people like to pretend that there isn't nay choice in the UK system.

I thought it was strange that you'd have to wait a year for a hip operation there is no way waiting lists are that long anymore

[gh]

[The Republicans have done an amazing job over the last few decades, of persuading people to vote against their best interests

Hmmmm??? Does this mean USAians have free rein to critcize UK politics out of season?

No, but it means that Mump, along with Conor and Squackee, is an inch from earning a paid vacation from the board. How many times do I have to state that politics is off limits here? Zip it!

[Conor Dary]

When you post a thread with the title:

'why would anybody want to tweak U.S. health care?'

A week after the Supreme Court is debating this very point, with a rather horrendous story, what do you expect? I wouldn't have responded at all, but the title was pretty provocative, and your post. What does tweaking mean, except in a political sense?

Personally, I am more than happy to stay off the political thing.

[dukehjsteve]

[The Republicans have done an amazing job over the last few decades, of persuading people to vote against their best interests

Hmmmm??? Does this mean USAians have free rein to critcize UK politics out of season?

No, but it means that Mump, along with Conor and Squackee, is an inch from earning a paid vacation from the board. How many times do I have to state that politics is off limits here? Zip it!

Hey gh, YOU STARTED IT. Double standard ?

[gh]

was there anything remotely political about my original post? I think not. Face it, the insurance companies are equal-opportunity screwers. Be you Che Guevara or Adolf Hitler, you're goin' down!

To ascribe what they're getting away with to either side of the aisle in Washington misses the mark.

[lonewolf]

Re the un-insured motorist in Oklahoma, a favorite ruse is to buy the cheapest policy that will allow you to register the vehicle and immediately cancel the policy.
I carry uninsured motorist insurance. In one instance in which I was involved, the uninsured motorist simply walked away and abandoned the car.. I don't know if they were ever identified or located.. In the second incident.. the driver did not disappear and was cited for driving without insurance and sundry other traffic offenses..I don't know the end result...
I don't know the stats but the officers working the accident told me there more uninsured and unlicensed motorists out there than you would believe.

[JRM]

was there anything remotely political about my original post? I think not. Face it, the insurance companies are equal-opportunity screwers. Be you Che Guevara or Adolf Hitler, you're goin' down!

To ascribe what they're getting away with to either side of the aisle in Washington misses the mark.

gh, let's be honest here -- Canuckian Socialist frère-à-frère. You cannot raise an issue like this an expect it NOT to become political. The state of healthcare in the US is first and foremost due to political currents. Single payer is not an option here because of direct action on Capitol Hill, not because of the whims of insurance companies. In fact, the insurance companies have the free reign they relish BECAUSE of the political climate, not despite it.

My suggestion is to let this thread run its course. Our faithful posters need to vent -- let them here.

[gh]

was there anything remotely political about my original post? I think not. Face it, the insurance companies are equal-opportunity screwers. Be you Che Guevara or Adolf Hitler, you're goin' down!

To ascribe what they're getting away with to either side of the aisle in Washington misses the mark.

gh, let's be honest here -- Canuckian Socialist frère-à-frère. You cannot raise an issue like this an expect it NOT to become political. ...

I can, and do; anybody who can't follow that rule should simply not post. It ain't rocket science.

[dukehjsteve]

was there anything remotely political about my original post? I think not. Face it, the insurance companies are equal-opportunity screwers. Be you Che Guevara or Adolf Hitler, you're goin' down!

To ascribe what they're getting away with to either side of the aisle in Washington misses the mark.

gh, let's be honest here -- Canuckian Socialist frère-à-frère. You cannot raise an issue like this an expect it NOT to become political. ...

I can, and do; anybody who can't follow that rule should simply not post. It ain't rocket science.

He who makes the rules, rules.

[guru]

Back in 2006 when I visited the emergency room for a kidney stone(did not know what it was or would not have gone), the bill rang up to the tune of about $4500. Having a $5000 annual deductible at the time, and being a member of the health care profession, I knew what to do - choose to pay the bill out of pocket. When I informed them I wouldn't be using insurance and would be paying OOP, the bill dropped almost exactly 50%.

Had I filtered that bill through my health insurance first, before it bounced back to me anyway thanks to the deductible, I'd have had to pay the whole $4500. Go figure.

[lonewolf]

Back in 2006 when I visited the emergency room for a kidney stone(did not know what it was or would not have gone), the bill rang up to the tune of about $4500. Having a $5000 annual deductible at the time, and being a member of the health care profession, I knew what to do - choose to pay the bill out of pocket. When I informed them I wouldn't be using insurance and would be paying OOP, the bill dropped almost exactly 50%.

Had I filtered that bill through my health insurance first, before it bounced back to me anyway thanks to the deductible, I'd have had to pay the whole $4500. Go figure.

I had a similar experience twenty five years ago. Stepped on a clod while running.. snapped the fifth meta tarsal in my right takeoff foot..hurt like hell.. limped mile home.. doc sent me to a podiatrist who clucked that I needed a couple thousand dollars worth of screws and pins and casts..
I told him I had no money and no insurance.. he said, Well, lets try this.".. wrapped the foot in a tight zinc oxide bandage, put me on crutches and said come back next, lets see what to do when the swelling goes down..the next week, he was surprised to see how the bones were already knitting, re-wrapped the foot and said come back next week.. the third week, he showed me how to wrap the foot myself and said stay on the crutches until you can walk.. which I did...
As I recall my total bill was about $100.. I was on crutches for a couple of months, resumed running and jumping off that foot without complications.. I was a runner in those days and the worst part was the running withdrawal, which I learned was real and not mythical..

[Pego]

Thank you guru and lonewolf for your testimonials that call for a universal health care plan where everybody is treated according to standards of care without debilitating financial burden.

[gh]

bringing this thread back to life:

The out-of-network screw job continued apparently, in that charges started coming in for "out of network" lab work. Please explain how a patient is supposed to have a remote bit of choice with who does lab work!!

The good news is that the relative's employer (a large entity) has had a rash of complaints about the anesthesiology scam and how the insurance carrier is turning a blind eye to it, and is seeking redress at the highest level. So perhaps the story will have a happier ending.

[Conor Dary]

That is good to hear.

[gh]

squeaky wheel got grease! Too a ton of lobbying/kvetching/threatening at various levels, but the insurance carrier finally caved. I didn't know that happened to real people.

[bambam]

squeaky wheel got grease! Too a ton of lobbying/kvetching/threatening at various levels, but the insurance carrier finally caved. I didn't know that happened to real people.

One thing I tell my patients having trouble with insurance companies is to threaten them to go to the media. Most of the local television stations have a consumer person, and the last thing BCBS or United Healthcare wants is to have their name dragged all over the airwaves. They'll cave quickly when you threaten this.

[Daisy]

Excellent advice bambam, that might be useful. So can we presume they have a lot to hide?

[lonewolf]

In 1993 my father was hospitalized for weeks during his next to last illness. He discovered on the hospital bill he had been billed thousands of dollars for "occupational therapy", which he learned was the medical term for sitting in a common room for an hour a day with several other elderly terminal patients..each of which was apparently being charged for "therapy".

Although Medicare was paying the bill, he spent the last months of his life successfully protesting the charge; demanding to know, in his blunt, plain spoken way, exactly what occupation they were training a dying man for..

[bambam]

In 1993 my father was hospitalized for weeks during his next to last illness. He discovered on the hospital bill he had been billed thousands of dollars for "occupational therapy", which he learned was the medical term for sitting in a common room for an hour a day with several other elderly terminal patients..each of which was apparently being charged for "therapy".

Although Medicare was paying the bill, he spent the last months of his life successfully protesting the charge; demanding to know, in his blunt, plain spoken way, exactly what occupation they were training a dying man for..

Occupational Therapy is actually the term used now by most Hand Therapists, who usually work only with patients with hand and elbow problems (a few of ours go up to the shoulder). So if he was being billed for it he should have been receiving something similar to Physical Therapy but on the upper extremity.

An orthopaedic friend of mine at Duke, now retired, told me that his daughter, after college, went to work for a health insurance company for a few weeks. She quit after being told by her boss that she was required to automatically deny the first charge any patient submitted after getting their health insurance. The company assumed that many of the patients would not appeal and would not know any better and they would then save a certain percentage of their costs. Its sick what they do.

[Pego]

Occupational Therapy is actually the term used now by most Hand Therapists

This segregation of physical therapy started around 1970.

[Cooter Brown]

An orthopaedic friend of mine at Duke, now retired, told me that his daughter, after college, went to work for a health insurance company for a few weeks. She quit after being told by her boss that she was required to automatically deny the first charge any patient submitted after getting their health insurance. The company assumed that many of the patients would not appeal and would not know any better and they would then save a certain percentage of their costs. Its sick what they do.

Wasn't there a stat a while back in the news that stated insurance companies spend 80% of their income on fighting and denying claims?