mump boy wrote:Valerie Vili Tirunesh Dibaba Bernard Lagat
Good thing some one is keeping track
not me !!
i've actually lost my list so i can't go and work out where they were if i didn't post it !!
I know Baby Face had was 75th (3 votes and 48 points) but i called her Deratu Tulu !! who had already left.
now i have to track the others down
Dibaba was my #1, and I was thinking how popular she was compared to Defar...
Anyway, I chose her for the same reason I chose Allyson. She is such a beautiful runner to watch. If you ask me whose running form I wish I had, my #1 pick would be her. I also wish I could run like Allyson, but I have never been a sprinter.
And I will comment on Lagat when his ranking is posted.
26mi235 wrote:I might have had him on my list, especially since I now know his sister and coach. I would like to see him racing again, but his days at the top are done and we might just see very credible marks from intermittent training [like one this winter of 48, I think.]
I'd love to see a return too, but I know it's unlikely. He's got a lovely family and is getting into coaching from what I understand; there are far worse outcomes than that.
I spoke to him only once, in the waiting area for the 4x400m relay at the DIII Championships. It was my first time there and I was frankly very intimidated by the moment; he at that point was a regular at the top of the podium. I simply mumbled "good luck". I was sheepish about being starstruck, while he was surely equally sheepish about being seen as a star.
bman wrote:Moses Bolt Johnson Gebrselassie Bannister.... Thats 5.... Only 4 remaining.... does not compute
Wow!! Obviously you can count. If I add in David Rudisha to that list then .....Thats 6..and with only 4 remaining that doesn't compute either.
What I find puzzling is I have not noticed anyone having listed those 5 names as being the remaining favourites to be listed. A few of us (Daisy, Marlow and me) have made it known that we are guessing the last 4 will be Moses Bolt Johnson Gebrselassie.
Didn't see anyone mention Bannister as being in the final 4 which will be a huge surprise if he does miss out given the great importance the English speaking world placed on the 4 minute mile. Arguably the greatest iconic milestone in TnF history.
Tuariki wrote:Didn't see anyone mention Bannister as being in the final 4 which will be a huge surprise if he does miss out given the great importance the English speaking world placed on the 4 minute mile. Arguably the greatest iconic milestone in TnF history.
And a bit ironic given how many here think he should be lighting the Olympic flame despite the brits not jumping on that bandwagon
Kuha had both Landy, Bannister and Santee in his list. But he, along with Conor, were DQ'ed on page three or four
This is very strange because Valerie Villi was one of my picks and I remember her being mentioned very early on. I'm pretty certain mump voted for her as well so she had at least 2 votes.
*not actually 47th i'll count back when we get to the end ** not actually 28th etc etc
I'll give you a while to discuss these before posting No4
I had the Babyface assassin on my list, now it is concluded.
sorry i wrote her in as Deratu !!
If anyone else voted for people who really should have appeared by now please PM me and i'll see wheer they have disappeared to I added all of them to the list. To make additional adjustments will not be a problem.
Last edited by mump boy on Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
*not actually 47th i'll count back when we get to the end ** not actually 28th etc etc
I'll give you a while to discuss these before posting No4
sorry i wrote her in as Deratu !!
If anyone else voted for people who really should have appeared by now please PM me and i'll see wheer they have disappeared to I added all of them to the list. To make additional adjustments will not be a problem.
I had the Babyface assassin on my list, now it is concluded.
The following is taken from posting 1 which lists the results down to 21st place
mump boy wrote: 202nd (1 vote 16 points)
Dana Zatopekova Falilat Ogunkoya Mehdi Baala Moses Kiptanui Nick Rose Ollie Matson Sanya Richards (where's Track Daddy when you need him ?) Thierrry Vigneron Vladimir Yashchenko Wang Junxia Wolfgand Schmidt
Tirunesh Dibaba is not listed as 75th - it is her cousin Deratutu Tulu
Deratutu Tulu has been listed twice at 144th and again at 75th I can see how she can be mixed up with her cousin Tirunesh but really she doesn't look like Roger Bannister by any stretch of the imagination
Valerie Vili (not Villi) is not listed at 47th. Actually it is now Valerie Adams and she insists on being referred to as Valerie Adams. It could be dangerous to ones health to refer to her as Vili (or Villi)
Bernard Lagat (not Legat) is not listed at 28th. And he doesn't look like Irena Szewinska.
So, what is going on here???
I have gone back through the lists, used the "search" function. Checked mump's oposting of 20 January.
Given the comments from some others besides mump who are confirming Bannister, Dibaba, Adams (Vili) and Lagat; do we have a second secret list operating somewhere?
Love to hear the explanations.
And more importantly after 4 months I would love to know who the favourite 4 are - especially as so many great athletes have missed out, been doubled dipped, or put on a different list.
*not actually 47th i'll count back when we get to the end ** not actually 28th etc etc
I'll give you a while to discuss these before posting No4
Lagat was one of my picks. He is one of the athletes who really "grew on" me over the years. I appreciate his longevity in the sport, but I appreciate his passionate but relaxed attitude even more.
Quite honestly, I was rooting for El Guerrouj in 2004, because I thought he deserved an Olympic gold medal as the best 1500m runner of his generation. But now one of my two biggest wishes for the London Olympics is Lagat winning the gold in 5000m. (The other is Allyson winning the gold in an individual event.)
This is from the spread sheet I have right now. Hopefully up to date with duplicates removed.
392nd (1 Vote 1 Point) Adhemar Ferreira da Silva Anthony Famiglianni Asha Hanson Charles Kilpatrick Craig Mottram Dallas Long Dick Fosbury Fermin Cacho George Woods Ingrid Kristiansen Joe Green John Pennel Kemal Thompson Larry Myricks Lj Van Zyl Luis Delis Meserat Defar Monica Cabbler Norwood Ewell Ray Ewery Reiko Tosa Ricky Branch Sammy Wanjiru Shingeru So Steve Barnes Trine Hattestad
378th (1 vote, 2 points) Barbel Wochel Bob Deines Brittany Reece Chi Cheng Dennis Carr Javier Sotomayer Jessica Augusto Kayoko Fukushi Marion Kolosa Mark Richardson Paul Wilson Tatyana Kotova Thomas Wessinghage Tom Pukstys
364th (1 Vote, 3 points) Armin Harry Christian Taylor Francis Obikwelu Leamon King Lopez Lomong Marcuss O'Sullivan Mark Plaatjes Mike Carter Perdita Felicien Quincy Watts Sergie Litvinov Skip Sheaffer Ted Corbey Walter Dix
346th (1 Vote, 4 Points) Agnes Samaria Al Cantello Alberto Salazar Anke Behmer Bridget Foster Browning Ross Chris Solinsky Dionne Hemmings Emma George Kim Batten Lauren Williams Murry Halberg Natalya Antyuk Paul Ereng Rob Milburn Sally Gunnell Sydney Maree Tom Courtney
331st (1 Vote, 5 Points) Bob Kennedy Jerome Drayton Jiri Shobla Jutt Heine Kip Javonin Lorraine Fenton Mike Boit Milt Cambell Mondo Duplanis Peter Blank Phil Brown Rutger Smith Sohn Kee-chung Willie Davenport Yerelis Barrios
311th (1 Vote, 6 Points) Andrey Perlov Anisora Stanciu Arthur Wint Eddie Southern Hayden Jones Jan Johnson John Carlos John Landy Jordan Hassay Lazaro Borgia Llewlyn Herbert Lynn Davies Nikki Xanthou Phillips Idowu Rosie Ackerman Ruis Silver Sean Crawford Sunder Nix Vladislav Kozakiewicz Yuriy Sedyk
294th (1 Vote, 7 Points) Alain Mimoun Carlo Thranhart Donovan Bailey Dwight Phillips Heidi Rosenthal Herb McKinley Illona Slupienek Jessie Stewart John Smith Justin Gatlin Kevin Little Lydia Simon Olga Kaniskina Percy Williams Renauld Levellanie Robert Harting Werner Gunthur
271st (1 Vote 8 Points) Adulf Plummer Anne Packer Asafa Powell Betty Cuthbert Bob Beamon Bob Schull Chante Howard Dave Wottle Dwain Chambers Eva Glescova George Rhoden Inga Babakova Ionel Tirlea Iva Prandzeva Jen Barringer Jenn Suhr Jeurgen Shult Kris Akabusi Lawrence Myers Natasha Kaiser Brown Quentin Cassidy Rick Wolhouter Tony Jarret
258th (1 Vote 9 Points) Alan Pascoe Andrew Wheating Astrid Kumbernuss Harold Connelly Inger Miller Irving Saladino Jen Rhimes Katrin Krabbe Kylie Hutson Mike Connelly Patrick Sjoberg Paul Drayton Robert Korzeniowski
250th (1 Vote 10 points) Carrie Tollefson Don Bragg Jo Dial Johnny Kuch Mike Marsh Miruts Yifter Olga Fitova Connoly Romain Barras
235th (1 Vote 11 points) Alvin Kraenzlein Chris Brasher Daniel Komen Dayron Robles Doug Olmstead Ellen Van Langen Gordon Pirie Hasna Benhassi Janis Lusis Jeurgen Hingsen Kate Schmidt Randy Matson Shiela Hudson Steve Hooker Yargelis Savigne
222nd (1 vote 12 points) Butch Reynolds Chandra Stirrup Drew Fucci Dylan Armstrong Fabianna Murer Fernando Ribiero Francoise Mbango Henry Carr Joe Faust Lolo Jones Otis Davis Suzie Favor Hamilton Walter George
217th (1 vote 13 points) Harry Jerome Jim Brewer Russel Adams Saif Saaed Shaheen Tina Lilaak
208th - (1 vote 14 points) Briana Glen Dawn Harper Ernie Shelton Gerry Moro Helena Fibingerova Jeff Williams Joseph Plachy Lee Evans Maxim Dyaldin
189th (1 vote 16 points) Christine Ohourogu Dana Zatopekova Falilat Ogunkoya Mehdi Baala Moses Kiptanui Nick Rose Ollie Matson Sanya Richards Thierrry Vigneron Vladimir Yashchenko Wang Junxia Wolfgand Schmidt
184th (1 Vote 17 points) Kelly Sotherton Leatitia Vriesde Pat Matzdorf Richard Attlesey Roger Kingdom
177th (1 vote 18 points) Alexandra Chudina Igor Potapovich John Godina Kim Smith Lillian Board Olga Kotylarova Pekka Paivarinta Steve Williams Tina Paulino
168th (1 vote 19 points) Anatoly Bonderchuk Carla Sacramento Christina Obergföll Dieter Baumann Grit Breur Mal Whitfield Radion Gataullin
163rd (1vote 20 points) Brian Diemer Gabo Szabo Jim Bolding Shirley Strickland Yordanka Donkova
162nd (2 votes 4 points) Livio Berruti
161st (2 votes 6 points) Sonia O'Sulivan
160th (2 votes 8 points) Heike Henkel
158th (2 votes 9 points) Sandra Farmer Patrick Tatyana Samelenko
157th (2 votes 10 points) Ulis Williams
154th ( 2 votes 11 points) Christophe Lamaitre Connie Price Smith Shelly Anne Fraser Price
153rd (2 votes 12 points) Jearl Miles
151st (2 votes 13 points) Dwight Stone Kim Collins
148th (2 votes 14 points) Babe Didrikson Bob Richards Colin Jackson
Daisy wrote:This is from the spread sheet I have right now. Hopefully up to date with duplicates removed, although possibly with the wrong score (see below).
There are a few duplicates labelled with a ** (Jim Beatty, Steve Cram, Larry James and Bob Mathias)
**Jim Beatty 1 20 **Jim Beatty 2 28 So has 2 votes/28 points or 3 votes/48 points
**Steve Cram 1 10 **Steve Cram 2 19 So has 2 votes/19 points or 3 votes/29 points
**Larry James 1 17 **Larry James 2 21 So has 2 votes/21 points or 3 votes/38 points
**Bob Mathias 2 14 **Bob Mathias 3 16 So has 3 votes/16 points or 5 votes/30 points
If the list that Daisy just posted is now the correct list then that is great.
However, I am somewhat puzzled as I thought this was mump's project. As such I have based my postings on what has been posted as the "official" results from mump.
With regards to the duplicates you have listed arethe following possibilities?
Jim Beatty 3 - 58
Steve Cram 3 - 39
Larry James 3 - 38
Bob Mathias 5 - 30
If your listings are the correct ones then can I suggest that mump replace the first posting on this thread with these results so that we are all working off the same blackboard.
Tuariki wrote:However, I am somewhat puzzled as I thought this was mump's project. As such I have based my postings on what has been posted as the "official" results from mump.
As mump gave us the results pego and I were independently compiling our own versions. The list above is based on mumps postings in this thread including his updates to correct mistakes.
Daisy wrote:**Jim Beatty 1 20 **Jim Beatty 2 28 So has 2 votes/28 points or 3 votes/48 points
**Steve Cram 1 10 **Steve Cram 2 19 So has 2 votes/19 points or 3 votes/29 points
**Larry James 1 17 **Larry James 2 21 So has 2 votes/21 points or 3 votes/38 points
**Bob Mathias 2 14 **Bob Mathias 3 16 So has 3 votes/16 points or 5 votes/30 points
With regards to the duplicates you have listed arethe following possibilities?
Jim Beatty 3 - 58 Steve Cram 3 - 39 Larry James 3 - 38 Bob Mathias 5 - 30
Definitely possible. But I suspect that mump miscounted and then announced them a second time with the correct higher score. So I think that 2/28, 2/19, 2/21 and 3/16 are more likely.
Tuariki wrote:However, I am somewhat puzzled as I thought this was mump's project. As such I have based my postings on what has been posted as the "official" results from mump.
As mump gave us the results pego and I were independently compiling our own versions. The list above is based on mumps postings in this thread including his updates to correct mistakes.
Thanks for that Daisy. That explains a few things - so I guess you are all poms. Just like my Mum, I might add.
So, tell mump to hurry up and put us out of our misery. My guess for #4 - Edwin Moses.
Oops - for some reason I thought that during the past 4 months on this favourite marathon I had read that mump was a pom. So you are a snow bound Badger.
The only Wisconsin Badger for TnF I can think of is Pat Matzdorf.
Bolt and Geb both def fit the bill of faves for either performances or performers, in terms of likablity/chrarisma, etc. I'm not so sure about Moses and Johnson. Brilliant performers both, but I don't recall reading any paens to their human sides from a personal standpoint, although both of their careers are well-chronicled by now. No gushing paragraphs of praise like the recent A. Rock post, which I think resonates with almost all of us to some degree. But I could be wrong....and probably am.
It's got to have been difficult to track this throughout and if you're disorganised, like me, it could end up being a nightmare! But mump's doing a good job thus far and there's bound to be some errors.
I don't think JJK was on my list, but she should have been (like many others when you sit down and re-think properly)
She had a great career and her achievements speak for themselves. On a predominantly US forum you'd expect her, Ashford, Devers, Lewis and Johnson to be right up there and they've all been ranked high. But what stands her out against the others?
She definitely appeared to have a likeable personality and had a great, warm smile. But it was her competitive spirit and technical ability that stands her out. Her greatest achievement, for me, was Atlanta 96 when she secured the bronze medal with her last jump when injured. This personified grit and determination. Her life long adversary/friend Drechsler pin pointed this as THE performance of the Games (alongside MJ) because of the circumstances (DNF the heptathlon and being injured and below par in the LJ) And I guess that really is what sets her apart from most.
Like many she suffered a loss of form as we entered the 1990's and come Stuttgart she was 413 points down on her best, and that was her last great year in the heptathlon. But she'd set such a ridiculously surreal, high standard she could never keep it up and was approaching 30. Again though, in 93 she showed her grit, Sabine Braun was in fighting form and leading into the 800, leaving JJK in a position she'd hadn't been in for many years; 2nd place going into the 800m. The difference was that JJK believed she could win, whereas Braun probably never did. Again, it's that confidence in her ability that stands out.
She had trouble with some events as she got older, in particular the HJ and JT and unusually her SP marks went down as she approached 30 whereas most gain strength ; her best of 16.00m was aged 26 in 1988, but she struggled to get over 14m in Barcelona and Stuttgart. But she still had two great LJ seasons in her in 1994 and then 1996. That 94 season was oen of the best ever, behind HD's 86 and 92 seasons.
As is clear, I was always a Heike fan, and it annoyed me in 88 and 91 when JJK did just the US trials LJ/hept and didnt compete in a LJ again, then would come out in great form having not competed. 1991 was especially bizarre as there was no inkling she would be in 7.3+ form in Tokyo at all. But perhaps that's part of her skill, being able to produce something special from just training and no competition.
Her core years between 1986 and 1988 were quite surreal when you look back, those marks being set a quarter of a century ago now. Like 10.49, 21.34 & 47.60, I don't think we'll ever see 7,291 broken and it will take the introduction of the decathlon to remove the mark, it's just so amazing and out of this world.
Normally, yes. But this year we have the magnolia already.
Tuariki wrote:The only Wisconsin Badger for TnF I can think of is Pat Matzdorf.
You probably know of Suzy Favor Hamilton. And more recently Matt Tegenkamp and Chris Solinsky.
In my northern Badger garden, snowdrops, early crocus and a few Scilla sibiricas are blooming, the earliest in my memory, the hyacinths and tulips coming out, daffodils not quite yet. What is a pom? Should I feel honored or scream bloody murder ?
P.S. Once mump completes the list, I will re-post the alpabetized thing again, complete with corrections.
Tirunesh Dibaba is not listed as 75th - it is her cousin Deratutu Tulu
Deratutu Tulu has been listed twice at 144th and again at 75th I can see how she can be mixed up with her cousin Tirunesh but really she doesn't look like Roger Bannister by any stretch of the imagination
Valerie Vili (not Villi) is not listed at 47th. Actually it is now Valerie Adams and she insists on being referred to as Valerie Adams. It could be dangerous to ones health to refer to her as Vili (or Villi)
Bernard Lagat (not Legat) is not listed at 28th. And he doesn't look like Irena Szewinska.
So, what is going on here???
I have gone back through the lists, used the "search" function. Checked mump's oposting of 20 January.
Given the comments from some others besides mump who are confirming Bannister, Dibaba, Adams (Vili) and Lagat; do we have a second secret list operating somewhere?
Love to hear the explanations.
And more importantly after 4 months I would love to know who the favourite 4 are - especially as so many great athletes have missed out, been doubled dipped, or put on a different list.
I know they weren't listed at those positions, that's why i've just posted them !!
First, mump I applaud your work here. Not trying to correct you just trying to help compile the final list. This thread has been a great way to learn more about the athletes. Such as gabriella's post on JJK above.
Pego wrote:What is a pom? Should I feel honored or scream bloody murder ?
Normally heard in the context of 'that pommie bastard' when the NZ's and Aussies describe the English The American slang equivalent is 'limey'. POME refers to prisoners of mother england, in other words, all those trade unionists that were causing trouble and shipped to the other side of the world. Specifically, those fresh off the boat.
DecFan wrote:I have three left with four to go. For one of these to be ranked so high is a great surprise to me.
The "one" was Rodgers, whom Mump has now informed us got two votes in addition to mine. That makes a lot more sense than seeing him in the top 4!
I had Billy 15th. I turned 20 in 1976. For many distance runners in my generation, Shorter was an icon; Rodgers was an example. He showed us what someone with relatively modest college accomplishments could become a bit later in life - and he did this while running with joy and freedom. Injured in Montreal, boycotted out of Moscow, and past his prime by the time the World Championships began, he never had a shot at an Olympic or World Championships medal. But T&FN ranked him world number 1 in the marathon in 75, 77, and 79 - and those rankings were well-deserved.
DecFan wrote:I have three left with four to go. For one of these to be ranked so high is a great surprise to me.
The "one" was Rodgers, whom Mump has now informed us got two votes in addition to mine. That makes a lot more sense than seeing him in the top 4!
I had Billy 15th. I turned 20 in 1976. For many distance runners in my generation, Shorter was an icon; Rodgers was an example. He showed us what someone with relatively modest college accomplishments could become a bit later in life - and he did this while running with joy and freedom. Injured in Montreal, boycotted out of Moscow, and past his prime by the time the World Championships began, he never had a shot at an Olympic or World Championships medal. But T&FN ranked him world number 1 in the marathon in 75, 77, and 79 - and those rankings were well-deserved.
Thanks, Billy. It was a joy to watch you run.
Sorry for not posting him earlier. What you have just wrote is very interesting to me as before this thread i had never heard of him before
Daisy wrote:First, mump I applaud your work here. Not trying to correct you just trying to help compile the final list. This thread has been a great way to learn more about the athletes. Such as gabriella's post on JJK above.
Pego wrote:What is a pom? Should I feel honored or scream bloody murder ?
Normally heard in the context of 'that pommie bastard' when the NZ's and Aussies describe the English The American slang equivalent is 'limey'. POME refers to prisoners of mother england, in other words, all those trade unionists that were causing trouble and shipped to the other side of the world. Specifically, those fresh off the boat.
No, that does not describe me that well .
Yes mump, I do appreciate your work too and if there is anything we can help with, say so.