Dai Greene To LaShawn Merritt: 'You're A Cheat!'

[JumboElliott]

I wonder how much his statement is going to mean when the only part of LaShawn Merritt he's going to see is his rear end. If I'm Drummond, I'm purposely placing Merritt on the same leg as Greene.

[TDB]

Dai Greene

[shivfan]

1. The Daily Mail is nothing like The National Enquirer. It used to be very right-wing but is nowhere near as far right as it used to be. It's still extremely Royalist but it has become (slightly) more in touch.

Really?

When did that transformation occur?

I still treat everything I read in the Daily Mail with a huge pinch of salt....

[shivfan]

Why are Brits so sanctimonious and annoying about "cheats" from other countries?

Couldn't agree more. Sotherton is another one. Perhaps it's no coincidence that the most successful Brits in recent times have not generally been so fixated on how the playing field is stacked against them. I've never heard Holmes, Ennis, Idowu or Ohourugu moaning about it (I include the latter because I don't believe she cheated, as in purposefully). I almost hope Greene does win, so I won't have to listen to him laying the blame on someone else's drug regime. He's starting already on someone who isn't even a threat to his potential Olympic aspirations.

If Greene makes any kind of public gesture during the Olympic 4x4, that will make it two embarrassing spectacles in a row, after Rooney's shameful taunting carry-on in Beijing. Perhaps team management should deliver a preemptive lecture about representing the home country with dignity.

As a Brit of Caribbean heritage, I find it very annoying too....

I sometimes wonder if it isn't driven by the overly-sanctimonious media, and the athletes feel they need to go along, or risk being slated. Hence, the need all athletes seem to feel about defending the BOA's stance of banning those who fail drug tests from the Olympic team for life.

[tm71]

jumbo elliot wrote: I wonder how much his statement is going to mean when the only part of LaShawn Merritt he's going to see is his rear end. If I'm Drummond, I'm purposely placing Merritt on the same leg as Greene.

Even though there will be the temptation to do that, drummond should be concerned MORE about the fitness of the rest of his mile relay pool more than the brits. i agree that there has been animosity (mostly from the british side, hence their t-shirts "we kicked their butts" after the 1991 final in which the brits barely outleaned the americans). i know that was a long time ago, but the brits have not beaten the americans since then and most of the currenrt crop of relay runners were in diapers at that time. I am sure that drummond does not want to depend on merritt running another storming leg in order for the us squad to win. Plus, Drummond has bigger fish to fry (4 x 1), unless he has given up on the us anchorman crossing the finish line in the final (something which has not happened in 5 yrs).

[shivfan]

I'm waiting with bated breath to hear what Dai Greene thinks about Britain's selection of Dwain Chambers for the World Indoor Champs in Istanbul this weekend....

I hope the language Greene plans to use on Merritt will be the same language he'll use to Chambers when he bumps into him as well.

[IanS_Liv]

I'm surprised at Dai Greene's comments. I've always thought that you should do your talking on the track and leave it at that.

Saying that, however, this is all part of the hype from the UK media in the run-up to the games. The Daily Mail specialises in sanctimonious outrage, is very right-wing and is generally to be taken with a very large pinch of salt.

Dai's a very good 400m Hurdler, there's no denying that, but there are definitely 6 men I'd choose before him to put on the relay.

I'm hoping the BOA and UKA media teams put a muzzle on athletes from now on. We should be good hosts and we don't need controversy before the games. Although I'm willing to bet the papers here will do all they can to rake up as much as possible.

[gh]

After your 403rd Mo Farah and/or Jessica Ennis story of the week, what's left but to go raking?

[Marlow]

I'm hoping the BOA and UKA media teams put a muzzle on athletes from now on.

Normally I'm all about Free Speech, but I think you're right here - Brit athletes need to act more hospitably as the Games' hosts, plus, creating bulletin board material for their opponents is not the wisest course of action. Mum's the word, eh, Guvna?

[72]

Been away from the Board for a few days and come back to read the emotional stuff prevalent when an American is accused of being a cheat; apparently the geniuses in the States largely know for sure there was no intention of cheating; clever people, what

The comparison with Ohuruogo is invalid, imo ; she paid a penalty of sorts in line with what she foolishly did. ,She did not buy over the counter anything that the authorities could point to; the reason why Merritt competed at Daegu is simply because a medal , potentially gold, is never going to be lightly turned away across the pond.

As for Dai Greene's comments, he is entitled to express his views, although I suspect the language quoted by the Mail is likely to have been subject to the usual Brit Press exaggeration.

Our athletes will not of course be entitled to behave in an open way later in the year, because they have all been strapped completely by the Contract that the BOA have made them all sign, in respect of everything they say and do during the Games.

Personally I hope that Merritt gets whupped by the new kid on the block.

As for inappropriate comments, if you have followed international sport forever, then you will know that our friends in the USA have glorified in flag waving ," we are the best" and "the only thing that matters is to win" philosophy, so I am inclined to forgive Mr Greene stating his thoughts.

[Daisy]

After your 403rd Mo Farah and/or Jessica Ennis story of the week, what's left but to go raking?

Sometimes they make an effort to go outside the gossipy People-like news.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... -Wuda.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... atter.html

I guess scientists don't give them enough to gossip about.

[vencio2]

Why are Brits so sanctimonious and annoying about "cheats" from other countries?

Couldn't agree more. Sotherton is another one. Perhaps it's no coincidence that the most successful Brits in recent times have not generally been so fixated on how the playing field is stacked against them. I've never heard Holmes, Ennis, Idowu or Ohourugu moaning about it (I include the latter because I don't believe she cheated, as in purposefully).

Ha ha, well just look up Holmes' rather ungracious remarks after the Munich 800m when she got beaten into third.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... gs-in.html

[Marlow]

apparently the geniuses in the States largely know for sure there was no intention of cheating; clever people, what

Talk about completely missing the point!
NO ONE knows his intentions, so assuming the opposite is equally absurd.

[Grasshopper]

Been away from the Board for a few days and come back to read the emotional stuff prevalent when an American is accused of being a cheat; apparently the geniuses in the States largely know for sure there was no intention of cheating; clever people, what

I don't know about the UK, but here in the States we try to abide by this notion of "innocent until proven guilty", not the other way around.

[preston]

Why are Brits so sanctimonious and annoying about "cheats" from other countries?

Couldn't agree more. Sotherton is another one. Perhaps it's no coincidence that the most successful Brits in recent times have not generally been so fixated on how the playing field is stacked against them. I've never heard Holmes, Ennis, Idowu or Ohourugu moaning about it (I include the latter because I don't believe she cheated, as in purposefully). I almost hope Greene does win, so I won't have to listen to him laying the blame on someone else's drug regime. He's starting already on someone who isn't even a threat to his potential Olympic aspirations.

If Greene makes any kind of public gesture during the Olympic 4x4, that will make it two embarrassing spectacles in a row, after Rooney's shameful taunting carry-on in Beijing. Perhaps team management should deliver a preemptive lecture about representing the home country with dignity.

Agreed. For a country (UK, GBR, England, whatever...) that has terrorized the world (Asia, Middle East, Africa, Americas) on little more than breeze for mobility and inspiration, it's somewhat sickening - if not completely ironic, to constantly be lectured on good manners by such an ill-mannered spokesperson. I guess you become so good at re-writing history in your favor that you just assume the world should just let you tell the story indefinitely.

The IAAF and IOC needs to extend the officials and athletes oath to spectators and journalists and begin dismissing the relevant players from the stands or the Olympic media village when they run afoul of these oaths; a tabloid mentality should not be acceptable in an Olympics. If the athletes and officials need to put down their figurative shields and swords during this time of "peace" then so should the spectators and journalists. The IOC/IAAF needs to throw athletes out of the village and strip medals when these types of comments inevetibly begin ending up on facebook and twitter accounts. Sorry, Marlow, I don't share your "freedom of speech" non-limitations.

[quote=athlete's oath]In the name of all the competitors I promise that we shall take part in these Olympic Games, respecting and abiding by the rules which govern them, committing ourselves to a sport without doping and without drugs, in the true spirit of sportsmanship, for the glory of sport and the honour of our teams.[1][/quote]
Calling your competitor a cheat is not in the true spirit of sportsmanship, but let's hope that the british and all their indoctrinated manners can learn not to make "heroes" out of the Greene's, Holmes', Sotherton's and Radcliffe's of their world. Its unacceptable.

[trevorp]

Ha ha, well just look up Holmes' rather ungracious remarks after the Munich 800m when she got beaten into third [by Ceplak].
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... gs-in.html

Ungracious? Maybe, but her outburst wasn't directed at some random athlete, was it? Her suspicions were justified.

[Grasshopper]

Ha ha, well just look up Holmes' rather ungracious remarks after the Munich 800m when she got beaten into third [by Ceplak].
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... gs-in.html

Ungracious? Maybe, but her outburst wasn't directed at some random athlete, was it? Her suspicions were justified.

Suspicions, maybe. Accusations, no. Ceplak didn't test positive until 5 years later.

[mump boy]

Why are Brits so sanctimonious and annoying about "cheats" from other countries?

I'm sanctimonious and annoying about cheats from my own country as well

[preston]

Why are Brits so sanctimonious and annoying about "cheats" from other countries?

I'm sanctimonious and annoying about cheats from my own country as well

Apparently that doesn't apply to Christine Ohuruoghu, who by the gh's own definition, is just as much of a cheat, if not more, than is Merritt.

[72]

CO a bigger cheat than Merritt?

So taking a series of unacceptable pills is not as bad as missing 3 tests. Interesting logic, but not much in my book.

What is this fat headed talk earlier in this thread about the Brits being sanctimonious about other nations cheats. I dislike intensely any cheats from any countries, but the USA, not to mention the East Europeans, have had more high quality WC/OG cheats (excluding the ones we have heard and read about in byegone days of the cold war but not allowed to talk about here) than you can shake a stick at; with your speciality being the overhyped sprints and 400metres.

Our whole Brit philosophy has been and still is today that fair play and obeying the rules are of paramount important; that is why we have perhaps been so amateurish and unsuccessful in international sport in the past, whereas the American ideal is winning is the only thing that matters.
If you do not understand that, tough .

None of this is saying that we do not have cheats, which we do,sadly but not too many of them that come to mind were any good at the super elite level.

[Grasshopper]

So taking a series of unacceptable pills is not as bad as missing 3 tests. Interesting logic, but not much in my book.

When one offense has been determined to be accidental (or at least with no intent to cheat) and the other has not (to my knowledge), yes, it is not as bad.

[mump boy]

Why are Brits so sanctimonious and annoying about "cheats" from other countries?

I'm sanctimonious and annoying about cheats from my own country as well

Apparently that doesn't apply to Christine Ohuruoghu, who by the gh's own definition, is just as much of a cheat, if not more, than is Merritt.

No it doesn't apply to CO because she didn't cheat. GH may be one of the greatest men alive but he's not The Oracle and he was talking about Kenteris, who didn't 'miss' tests but purposefully avoided them, for years.

As you well know there is a MASSIVE difference between missing tests you don't even know about and running away from ones that you do.

[JumboElliott]

She didn't know about these tests?

[mump boy]

She didn't know about these tests?

Of course not, that's the whole point

In the UK system you have to give testers a 1 hour window each day at a designated location. Most athletes do 5am at home but as CO lived at home with parents and younger siblings she gave the track. On 3 occasions she wasn't at the track (one time there was a school sports day and she had to train somewhere else) she should have text the testers to give them new location but didn't do so. Testers showed up, she wasn't there and it goes down as a missed test, they don't even have to try and contact the athlete. It was a new system that no one fully understood and she was the unlucky one to get 3 missed tests first (she didn't even know about the 2nd missed test before the 3rd one). Loads of other athletes were on 2 including Becky Lynn and MLF (who 'missed' tests because his doorbell was broken) obviously after CO people started taking the system much more seriously.

There is no comparison to CO and Kenteris, Annus or Thanou who purposefully avoided tests, Ayhan who refused one or any athlete who gets caught on three occasion with banned, performance enhancing, steroids in their system, no matter what their intent.

[Flumpy]

I find it hilarious that i'm always being called an apologist for UK drug cheats on the one hand and then lambasted for not being more forgiving towards poor Dwain Chambers on the other.

I fine the idea that either Merritt or Chambers might be allowed to compete at the Olympics equally abhorent.

Whilst Dai comments are ridiculous (He's not even on the relay team ) I fully support the sentiment and wish more athletes of all nations would express similar views on a regular basis.

[Flumpy]

As a Brit of Caribbean heritage, I find it very annoying too....

I sometimes wonder if it isn't driven by the overly-sanctimonious media, and the athletes feel they need to go along, or risk being slated. Hence, the need all athletes seem to feel about defending the BOA's stance of banning those who fail drug tests from the Olympic team for life.

I you considered that maybe athletes defend the BOA's stance of banning those who fail drug tests from the Olympic team for life because they think that those who fail drug tests should be banned from the Olympic team for life???

[Flumpy]

Calling your competitor a cheat is not in the true spirit of sportsmanship.

I would suggest that being cheat is even less so.

How is it that calling someon a cheat (When they are) is deemed worse by many on these boards that actually taking drugs in the first place???

[JumboElliott]

I really hope that Dwain Chambers is allowed to compete and somehow wins a medal. That would be awesome.

[JumboElliott]

The problem I have with athletes calling out convicted dopers is the assumption that they would beat said dopers without drugs.

[gh]

..
How is it that calling someon a cheat (When they are) is deemed worse by many on these boards that actually taking drugs in the first place???

I don't think it is. There are just those who don't know when to let something go, and that's exceedingly frustrating to those who have moved on from the situation.

[Grasshopper]

How is it that calling someon a cheat (When they are) is deemed worse by many on these boards that actually taking drugs in the first place???

How is it that you are somehow more informed and enlightened to Merritt's intentions than those reviewing his case and rendering the decision that he did NOT cheat (i.e. intend to enhance his athletic performance)?

[Smoke]

Absolutely ridiculous statements and sentiment!

Flumpy, we cannot afford this worthless drivel from within the sport. You speakas if track is not the most policed sport in the world. Mention PEDs and people think track! We call ppl that miss test cheats! Ppl that take NyQuil, cheats. Ppl that take caffeine pills, cheats! And ppl that take PEDs, cheats! And we make sure that label remains for life! For no productive reason!

What purpose did this serve, Dai?! None! It's not even self serving. It's damaging to the sport! We are in danger of losing our prestigious spot as the crown jewel of the Games and this is what's dominating our headlines! It cost Dai money, me money, and everyone else.
I'm not saying, we need to hide, be passive or the like, I am saying we have to be more savvy, period. Dai's personal opinion about another athlete is not for public consumption. It is bad business!

Lastly, Dai goes on to express sympathy and understanding for Dwain because he got to know him! He does know Merritt yet claims h will call him a cheat to his face! Wow!

[Flumpy]

How is it that calling someon a cheat (When they are) is deemed worse by many on these boards that actually taking drugs in the first place???

How is it that you are somehow more informed and enlightened to Merritt's intentions than those reviewing his case and rendering the decision that he did NOT cheat (i.e. intend to enhance his athletic performance)?

I wasn't talking about Meritt. I was referring to the idea that the UK athletes that do speak out shouldn't have done so when invariably (Yegorova, Ceplak, Blonska etc) they were correct.

[Grasshopper]

How is it that calling someon a cheat (When they are) is deemed worse by many on these boards that actually taking drugs in the first place???

How is it that you are somehow more informed and enlightened to Merritt's intentions than those reviewing his case and rendering the decision that he did NOT cheat (i.e. intend to enhance his athletic performance)?

I wasn't talking about Meritt. I was referring to the idea that the UK athletes that do speak out shouldn't have done so when invariably (Yegorova, Ceplak, Blonska etc) they were correct.

Okay, my mistake. But even in those other instances (of speaking out) the comments (such as Holmes' about Ceplak) are often made BEFORE someone is caught cheating. Just because they eventually ended up being proven right doesn't make the pre-emptive accusations just.

[Flumpy]

Absolutely ridiculous statements and sentiment!

Flumpy, we cannot afford this worthless drivel from within the sport. You speakas if track is not the most policed sport in the world. Mention PEDs and people think track! We call ppl that miss test cheats! Ppl that take NyQuil, cheats. Ppl that take caffeine pills, cheats! And ppl that take PEDs, cheats! And we make sure that label remains for life! For no productive reason!

What purpose did this serve, Dai?! None! It's not even self serving. It's damaging to the sport! We are in danger of losing our prestigious spot as the crown jewel of the Games and this is what's dominating our headlines! It cost Dai money, me money, and everyone else.
I'm not saying, we need to hide, be passive or the like, I am saying we have to be more savvy, period. Dai's personal opinion about another athlete is not for public consumption. It is bad business!

Lastly, Dai goes on to express sympathy and understanding for Dwain because he got to know him! He does know Merritt yet claims h will call him a cheat to his face! Wow!

Why is the onus always on people within the sport not to take a stand againt cheats for fear of further sullying the sport rather than people not taking drugs in the first place?

I get as tired as anyone else with the constant harping on about drugs, especially in the British media, but the answer isn't to pretend it's not happening it's to catch, ban and make and example of as many cheats a possible.

As I said above I think Dai's stance on this particular case is wrong headed but in principle the more people who get called out by their fellow competitors the better.