Marvin Bracy (HS, Florida) 55m 6.08

[gh]

can a high schooler accept "expense" money without blowing up his eligibility? I'd be surprised.

[Dave]

can a high schooler accept "expense" money without blowing up his eligibility? I'd be surprised.

Let's hope he gets competent advice.

[sprintdoc]

Yes GH HS athletes (and college) athletes are allowed to receive money to cover travel and meals and lodging, etc to attend competitions. The National HS meets have been doing this for years such as Nike's meets and the National Scholastic Foundation that has supported not only its own meets but also the US Juniors.

[Avante]

Is this for real?

I cannot believe a HS 60 is getting this kind of play. No way in hell we can start talking Olympics, records etc etc. Give it some time!!!!!!!!

[mal]

Is this for real?

I cannot believe a HS 60 is getting this kind of play. No way in hell we can start talking Olympics, records etc etc. Give it some time!!!!!!!!

Avante - pay attention.

A HS 55....

[JumboElliott]

Is this for real?

I cannot believe a HS 60 is getting this kind of play. No way in hell we can start talking Olympics, records etc etc. Give it some time!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't bother talking about him if he didn't run a just barely illegal 10.05 100m last year (one where he pulled up at the end). The fact is that this kid just played a football all star game and did this immediately afterward. That's why it's worth having tempered excitement about.

[polevaultpower]

Bracy needs to be at USA Indoor Nationals. He can have expenses covered in large part by meet funds provided to top performers based on marks entering the meet. To go race in a prep invite in Seattle makes no sense when he could go to indoor nationals.

He's probably getting all of his expenses paid to Seattle. He would have to race a 60 somewhere to get anything covered to USATF Indoors:

http://www.usatf.org/events/2012/USAInd ... unding.asp

For these allocations, funds will be awarded to the top ranked athletes in the distances/disciplines contested at the Championships and NOT for times or distances achieved in alternate qualifying distances/times (i.e. rank in the 60m, but not 55m or 50m).

The USATF funding is super iffy for him. Maybe he could get the NSSF to cover the trip, but I am sure going to Seattle everything is paid for up front by Brooks and there's no ambiguity or money spent by his family.

[Avante]

Is this for real?

I cannot believe a HS 60 is getting this kind of play. No way in hell we can start talking Olympics, records etc etc. Give it some time!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't bother talking about him if he didn't run a just barely illegal 10.05 100m last year (one where he pulled up at the end). The fact is that this kid just played a football all star game and did this immediately afterward. That's why it's worth having tempered excitement about.

I guess I just can't forget....

Riley Washington.....10.30 Cali State record
Kareem Kelly
Randall Carroll
Napolean Kaufman

....all great in high school and if not for football.........................

[JumboElliott]

Xavier Carter
Jeff Demps
John Capel
Tyree Washington

The opposite holds true.

[sprintdoc]

I'd echo the thoughts to slow down on thinking Bracy is the next Usain Bolt or even Tyson Gay, A look at who in the US has run 9.90 or faster and their HS marks. In addition note the guys who ranked in the US prep 100 top 3 over past 20 years and went on to do well, pretty much nothing. Not all were football players its worth noting.

PR HS Best
Tyson Gay 9.69 10.46 - 10th best in US prep list
Maurice Greene 9.79 10.43 - 4th in prep list
Leroy Burrell 9.85 unbknown
Justin Gatlin 9.85 10.
Mike Rodgers 9.85 not unjder 10.65
Justin Gatlin 9.86 10.36 - 5th best in US
Shawn Crawford 9.88 not under 10.65
Ryan Bailey 9.88 10.45 - 12th best in US
Walter Dix 9.88 10.28 - 2nd in US
Doc Patton 9.89 not under 10.65
Travis Padgett 9.89 10.46 - 10th in US

So only 1 athlete in top 3 of prep annual rankings has ever broken 9.90.

Here are the guys ranked in the top 3 each year going back last 20 years. Who's Who of Who???
Riley Washington, Jermaine Lewis, Hosia Abdallah, Tony McCall, Jonathan Burrell, Charles Mitchell, Dewarski Odom, Bryan Howard, Pat Johnson, Marques Howell, Robert Staten, Toya Jones, Donald Fisher, Ricardo Shaw, Lawrence Armstrong, Ja'Warren Hooker, Michael Martin, Michael Bennett, Demario Wesley, Bennie Chatman, Tory Mitchell, Warren Rogers, Dwight Thomas, Joey Harris, Nicholas Johnson, Jamar Ervin, Dabryan Blanton, Edorian McCullough, Tyree Gailes, Brendan Christian, Jonathan Wade, Willie Hordge, Earvin Parker, Demi Omole, Xavier Carter, J-Mee Samuels, Walter Dix, Ivory Williams, Jamere Holland, Jerek Hewett, Rodney Glass, Harry Adams, Rynell Parson, Jeff Demps, Jeremy Rankin, Marcus Rowland, Isaiah Sweeney. So besides Dix and Ivory Williams, no one other than Demps has yet to approach elite international performer status ever.

Special thanks to Jack Shepard's HS Track annuals for the prep info.

[Marlow]

I'd echo the thoughts to slow down on thinking Bracy is the next Usain Bolt or even Tyson Gay,

The key here is to be a good HIGH SCHOOL FAN and be really, really, excited about his prospects THIS YEAR to do some very special stuff.

[JumboElliott]

Anybody who says he's the next Usain Bolt or Tyson Gay needs to get their head examined.

[mal]

The comments re: tyson being the 10th best prep, doesn't entirely fit this situation.

People are not heralding his favoritism for London.

The FACT is that a high school kid just ran a legitimate adult world class time. And his form looks good, he looks disciplined, and if he never runs any faster, he is going to do pretty well for himself if he stays in track.
Certainly he'll stand out in football, if he can play.

I think he has real ability, and his times and performance show that it is more than potential - cos he has already run a fast one, and looks like he has improved from last year. But he is 18, and while that appears young, it may not be. When I was 18 I was a boy among men. He may be the opposite.

But 6.08 is 6.08 and not many people can run that.

[ZELLGADISS]

This time is being optimistic 6.51 and being pessimist 6.53.
With 18 years to make in 60m 6.51-6.53 in my opinion is amazing.
Im sure that soon(this year or in 2 years more) he will be sub10.
But of course he can not to be compared with Bolt, the incredible jamaican get sub20 with 17 years¡¡¡¡¡

[Dave]

But 6.08 is 6.08 and not many people can run that.

I couldn't find a lot of references to top sprinters running 55m, but to your point:
Walter Dix 2007 6.19 (age 21)

[sprintdoc]

Do any of you posting still about Bracy's potential & raving about the 6.08 not realize the video clearly shows a false start? You can't speculate on how much faster he will run when he caught a flier! He's a talent no doubt but both his 55m & 100m "best" marks are not reliable. How fast would Bolt have run in Daegu if the gun hadn't stopped the race for a false start? That's what the 6.08 equates to.

My point in posting the HS marks of top guys over last 20 years is to show how few HS phenoms improve even a little. Many of these guys are fully developed as 18 year olds especially football playing guys from Southern states where they train & lift year round from age 15 on. Then too many get too big via college football lifting or even training for track get too big thinking the secret is in bigger hammies & quads but the extra bulk leads to slower times or more injuries. This is a large part as to why Jamaicans are ahead of US. It's an appropriate lifting program that brings great speed.

[Marlow]

the video clearly shows a false start

So why do we see the smoke before we see him move? He may indeed have successfully anticipated the gun, but the video most certainly does NOT show a false start.

[lumberjack]

the video clearly shows a false start

So why do we see the smoke before we see him move? He may indeed have successfully anticipated the gun, but the video most certainly does NOT show a false start.

You admit he didn't react to the gun, he clearly anticipated it. The smoke appears and within 1 frame (0.03s) he's already moved. If he anticipated the gun, he clearly can't repeat the performance. If there were blocks with a sensor, he wouldn't have gotten away with that start since his reaction time was less than 0.03 and a legal reaction is 0.10. If he can't repeat it, it's not a legitimate performance. The 6.18 or so he would have run is solid, but it would be around 6.63 which is clearly not world class. Marvin is clearly talented, but he shouldn't have the record, this performance is not world class.

[Avante]

the video clearly shows a false start

So why do we see the smoke before we see him move? He may indeed have successfully anticipated the gun, but the video most certainly does NOT show a false start.

You admit he didn't react to the gun, he clearly anticipated it. The smoke appears and within 1 frame (0.03s) he's already moved. If he anticipated the gun, he clearly can't repeat the performance. If there were blocks with a sensor, he wouldn't have gotten away with that start since his reaction time was less than 0.03 and a legal reaction is 0.10. If he can't repeat it, it's not a legitimate performance. The 6.18 or so he would have run is solid, but it would be around 6.63 which is clearly not world class. Marvin is clearly talented, but he shouldn't have the record, this performance is not world class.

Does it really matter? Go ahead run down all those who have held that record. The bottom line.....young cat looking great at the HS level, hell just maybe.....................

[mal]

the video clearly shows a false start

So why do we see the smoke before we see him move? He may indeed have successfully anticipated the gun, but the video most certainly does NOT show a false start.

You admit he didn't react to the gun, he clearly anticipated it. The smoke appears and within 1 frame (0.03s) he's already moved. If he anticipated the gun, he clearly can't repeat the performance. If there were blocks with a sensor, he wouldn't have gotten away with that start since his reaction time was less than 0.03 and a legal reaction is 0.10. If he can't repeat it, it's not a legitimate performance. The 6.18 or so he would have run is solid, but it would be around 6.63 which is clearly not world class. Marvin is clearly talented, but he shouldn't have the record, this performance is not world class.

ONly according to you. As an ex sprinter it looked like a legal start to me. Save your outrage for the rolling techniques.

[Marlow]

the video clearly shows a false start

So why do we see the smoke before we see him move? He may indeed have successfully anticipated the gun, but the video most certainly does NOT show a false start.

You admit he didn't react to the gun, he clearly anticipated it.

The word 'may' does not denote certainty; I have admitted nothing.
He either had a phenomenal start or he correctly anticipated the gun. Correctly anticipating the gun can give you a RT in the .10-.12 range, which IS legal.

[Avante]

This is funny.

He false started!
No he didn't!
Yes he did!
No....he didn't!
Oh.... but he did.

Come on people......sheesh~~~~~~~~~~ Does it really matter? Key words...high school.

[Dave]

This is funny.
....

Come on people......sheesh~~~~~~~~~~ Does it really matter? Key words...high school.

Really, really fast high school.

[Avante]

This is funny.
....

Come on people......sheesh~~~~~~~~~~ Does it really matter? Key words...high school.

Really, really fast high school.

Back in the day James Jackson lead the nation with his 9.4. Not just high school....the nation.
As a junior Houston Mctear tied the world record in the 100 yard dah...9.0
Elizabeth Robinson is a 16 year old high schooler in Illinois.....wins the Olympic 100m
Dwayne Evans is an Arizona high schooler....Olympic bronze in the 200m
While in high school Lanoris Marshall dusts Steve Williams and Don Quarrie in a 60 yard dash.
High schooler Francis Hussey blows the Olympic 100m champ Harold Abrahams away on the first league of the 1924 Olympic 4x1 relay.

Those were really really fast high schoolers.

[JumboElliott]

Those were largely in the age of amateur athletics.. Night and day.

[Dave]

This is funny.
....

Come on people......sheesh~~~~~~~~~~ Does it really matter? Key words...high school.

Really, really fast high school.

Back in the day James Jackson lead the nation with his 9.4. Not just high school....the nation.
As a junior Houston Mctear tied the world record in the 100 yard dah...9.0
Elizabeth Robinson is a 16 year old high schooler in Illinois.....wins the Olympic 100m
Dwayne Evans is an Arizona high schooler....Olympic bronze in the 200m
While in high school Lanoris Marshall dusts Steve Williams and Don Quarrie in a 60 yard dash.
High schooler Francis Hussey blows the Olympic 100m champ Harold Abrahams away on the first league of the 1924 Olympic 4x1 relay.

Those were really really fast high schoolers.

McTear was just flat out amazing.

[Avante]

Those were largely in the age of amateur athletics.. Night and day.

Anytime a high school kid is doing what those I mentioned did...........................

[Avante]

This is funny.
....

Come on people......sheesh~~~~~~~~~~ Does it really matter? Key words...high school.

Really, really fast high school.

Back in the day James Jackson lead the nation with his 9.4. Not just high school....the nation.
As a junior Houston Mctear tied the world record in the 100 yard dah...9.0
Elizabeth Robinson is a 16 year old high schooler in Illinois.....wins the Olympic 100m
Dwayne Evans is an Arizona high schooler....Olympic bronze in the 200m
While in high school Lanoris Marshall dusts Steve Williams and Don Quarrie in a 60 yard dash.
High schooler Francis Hussey blows the Olympic 100m champ Harold Abrahams away on the first league of the 1924 Olympic 4x1 relay.

Those were really really fast high schoolers.

McTear was just flat out amazing.

While at Baker High School he averaged over 13 yards a carry as a tailback. Florida tried to recruit him, he couldn't make the grades. I've heard him talk........hmmm? Anyway.....we never saw him as we should have. If he could have ran for Florida, or some SEC school or even a SWAC school for 4 years. No telling what he might have ran. We saw his raw talent, nothing refined about it at all. I saw him run a few times, yep...amazing. Now add some real coaching and......who knows.

He broke/tied something like 5/6 indoor WR's one season. All that done on pretty much natural talent.

[mal]

Those were largely in the age of amateur athletics.. Night and day.

Night and Day and hand times.

[Marlow]

No telling what he might have ran. We saw his raw talent, nothing refined about it at all. I saw him run a few times, yep...amazing. Now add some real coaching and......who knows.

He actually did receive some backing and coaching the year he ran his 10.16. I think he was a Herb Washington type that was destined to be a 60 guy. His speed decayed rapidly after the 60, even when he was in good 200 shape. That said, he could've been sub-10 in a good college program today, faster than Demps. I also think he matured very early and reached his physical peak earlier than most.

[Avante]

No telling what he might have ran. We saw his raw talent, nothing refined about it at all. I saw him run a few times, yep...amazing. Now add some real coaching and......who knows.

He actually did receive some backing and coaching the year he ran his 10.16. I think he was a Herb Washington type that was destined to be a 60 guy. His speed decayed rapidly after the 60, even when he was in good 200 shape. That said, he could've been sub-10 in a good college program today, faster than Demps. I also think he matured very early and reached his physical peak earlier than most.

I agree with all that. One of those better early on types. 18-24 probably///his///peak years. Like you said...9.95ish..???..as a college guy.

[Dave]

But 6.08 is 6.08 and not many people can run that.

I couldn't find a lot of references to top sprinters running 55m, but to your point:
Walter Dix 2007 6.19 (age 21)

And Carl Lewis ran 6.03 at age 22: http://www.all-athletics.com/node/90423

Is the difference between 6.08 and 6.03 much more than a good lean?

[Giant Panda]

Bracy would have to lean for 29 years to catch Carl Lewis.

[Dave]

Bracy would have to lean for 29 years to catch Carl Lewis.

Haha. Point is that Bracy is running with the big kids. I don't mean to imply that he is the equal of Carl Lewis nor that he is going to match him in any way.

It should be absolutely fascinating to see him run against a national class runner either in the trials or before.

[mal]

http://www.all-athletics.com/en-us/all- ... t=10229550

From the all time bests - he's up there already, and ahead of some very successful athletes.

Interestingly Carl Lewis's 6.03 time is not in the world list.