NotSoOrdinary wrote:I'd like to know how you figure Allyson ran slower in 2011 than (FS,SOPH,JR,SR.) in high school. Are you saying she ran slower in the 200m final, on that day, after those races, than she did in ONE 200m race in ONE of the years I listed? If so
Even accounting for the altitude and wind, Felix's HS PR(22.11) was faster than all of her 200 races in 2011(22.32 SB). In fact, Felix's wind-adjusted 200m season best has gotten slower every year since 2007.
t_monk wrote:I honestly think that Felix is just about as talented as Sanya... If Sanya can get a 49.70, I think that Felix can as well is she tries. 48.0 relay leg and her 21.8x speed. I think she is very apt at getting to 48.70 if she truly focuses.
Much in the same way AF was born with the speed she has without looking like some freakazoid straight out of Muscle & Fitness, Sanya was born with the better ability at 400m. Allyson right now and at her best (as a 200/400) runner is not in the same class as Sanya. HOWEVER, if Allyson decided to completely drop the 200 and focus solely on the 400 for the rest of her career, I think we'd see some awesome races (as long as Sanya is at her best as well.)
I'm not entirely convinced of that. I believe Allyson is freakazoid but I don't think Sanya necessarily has the better 400m talent. Felix's 'lack' in the 400m is because she isn't focused on it, same as how Sanya's 'lack' in the 200m is because she hasn't trained for it.
NotSoOrdinary wrote:I'd like to know how you figure Allyson ran slower in 2011 than (FS,SOPH,JR,SR.) in high school. Are you saying she ran slower in the 200m final, on that day, after those races, than she did in ONE 200m race in ONE of the years I listed? If so
Even accounting for the altitude and wind, Felix's HS PR(22.11) was faster than all of her 200 races in 2011(22.32 SB). In fact, Felix's wind-adjusted 200m season best has gotten slower every year since 2007.
I do not believe it, that 22.11 at Mexico City is not on par with that 22.32 -- ask gh for his opinion about appropriate adjustments from Mexico City.
Even accounting for the altitude and wind, Felix's HS PR(22.11) was faster than all of her 200 races in 2011(22.32 SB). In fact, Felix's wind-adjusted 200m season best has gotten slower every year since 2007.
I do not believe it, that 22.11 at Mexico City is not on par with that 22.32 -- ask gh for his opinion about appropriate adjustments from Mexico City.
She ran that 22.11 into a 0.5 headwind, and according to Mureika it converts to 22.31.
Speedster wrote:off a 200/400m base she's a 22.3 athlete and a chance of bronze,
Ludicrous.
To clarify. This was in reference to her best time in 2011, where she appeared to most commit herself to being a 200/400m athlete, she ran quicker in 2010 22.01 off what might have been a 200/400m based, but from her comments in 2010 and 11, she appeared to prepare more thoroughly for the double last year that in 2010.
She should focus on the 200m solely this year, its her best chance at Olympic glory and its her favourite event to run, she never seems that passionate about the 400m, which lets face it, hurts a lot more than a 200m.
I kind of think the range of her talent and profile can be a burden as she feels the need to fully exploit it, but it doing so decreases the Gold medal she wants.
NotSoOrdinary wrote:I'd like to know how you figure Allyson ran slower in 2011 than (FS,SOPH,JR,SR.) in high school. Are you saying she ran slower in the 200m final, on that day, after those races, than she did in ONE 200m race in ONE of the years I listed? If so
Even accounting for the altitude and wind, Felix's HS PR(22.11) was faster than all of her 200 races in 2011(22.32 SB). In fact, Felix's wind-adjusted 200m season best has gotten slower every year since 2007.
Even accounting for the altitude and wind, Felix's HS PR(22.11) was faster than all of her 200 races in 2011(22.32 SB). In fact, Felix's wind-adjusted 200m season best has gotten slower every year since 2007.
I do not believe it, that 22.11 at Mexico City is not on par with that 22.32 -- ask gh for his opinion about appropriate adjustments from Mexico City.
She ran that 22.11 into a 0.5 headwind, and according to Mureika it converts to 22.31.
Omg Guru! You really crack me up You are reeeacchinngg with your claim and it is so incredibly false, I literally CANNOT with you in this debate
NotSoOrdinary wrote:I like Allyson and I (unlike most others in this thread) do believe she's a better 200m runner than VCB and most definitely Carmelita <---Who Allyson very nearly caught in Daegu after running the 400, 4 times. I also believe she would've won the GP double with more than the 45 min. rest she had, although that has more to do with everyone else being "off it" than Felix herself.
If she decides to run the 200 in London, I think she'll win. If she decides to run the 400 in London, I think she'll win. If she decides to run them both? Well...
EDIT: Have to say I find it funny that some people in this thread are calling Allyson's 07 200m pb, "old" and essentially "irrelvant because of time" yet the same people are saying/agreeing that 5 or more women can beat her in the 400m and most if not all of their pb's are also "old" and "irrelevant"
Veronica is a two time olympic champion. The most decorated female sprinter currently.Veronica is so much more talented athlete than Allyson.
notorious wrote:Veronica is a two time olympic champion. The most decorated female sprinter currently.Veronica is so much more talented athlete than Allyson.
More talented 200 runner, not necessarily athlete.
Veronica is so much more talented athlete than Allyson.
Oh really??? So what is Veronica's best time in the 400???
And what is Felix best time in the 200 and 100?
I suspect that on the basis of, say, IAAF points, Felix wins in the 'complete sprinter' race of the 100/200/400. Not sure whether it is hands-down or not, but if you realize that she has that 48.0r as well as 10.x and 21.x marks Felix has the advantage of being less good at the 100 and much better at the 400. She has US titles at all three distances and multiple medals at the other two (as does VCB, even more!, but she is a couple of years younger).
Veronica is so much more talented athlete than Allyson.
Oh really??? So what is Veronica's best time in the 400???
Yes she is. Allyson has said on numerous occasions that she was willinging to give up all 3 of her WC 200m gold medals for just one of VCB's Olympic 200m gold medals. Goes to show you how much highly she thinks of VC's more important medals
All this speculation and conjecture is just fine. That's what these forums are for.
But considering that AF's stated passion is the 200 my thoughts are if push comes to shove her choice is made.
The strength required for a 400 and speed required for the 100 can only help her 200 efforts.
Who she can or can't beat, what events she will or won't run is pure speculation.
What's not speculation is that the 200 is her passion.
I say she'll WIN the 2012 Olympic Gold in the 200! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
That's if VCB is not fully fit in London. If she is, she will win hands down. She is the best curve runner and has the speed and stamina to win. Everyone keep forgetting that VCB was not healthy in Berlin. Put it this way, if both athletes are in great shape in London, VCB will win hands down. Period.
All this speculation and conjecture is just fine. That's what these forums are for.
But considering that AF's stated passion is the 200 my thoughts are if push comes to shove her choice is made.
The strength required for a 400 and speed required for the 100 can only help her 200 efforts.
Who she can or can't beat, what events she will or won't run is pure speculation.
What's not speculation is that the 200 is her passion.
I say she'll WIN the 2012 Olympic Gold in the 200! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
That's if VCB is not fully fit in London. If she is, she will win hands down. She is the best curve runner and has the speed and stamina to win. Everyone keep forgetting that VCB was not healthy in Berlin. Put it this way, if both athletes are in great shape in London, VCB will win hands down. Period.
chuku69 wrote:Are better yet. When was the last time AF defeated a healthy fit VCB in the 200M?
Thank you.People act like VCB is some old bag that is past her peak.VCB is no push over. Allyson is an awsome runner and I must give her credit where credit is due.But the lat time Allyson beat VCB in any race was in 09 at worlds. VCB seems to have gotten a lot stronger and faster while Allyson seems to have peaked in the 100 and 200.I think she should stick to the 400.It will be hard to beat Shelly Jeter and VCB in the 200 since these ladies are faster and better crub runner than Allyson.By the time they reach the straight the race is already over and Allyson is trying to play catch up.
Veronica is so much more talented athlete than Allyson.
Oh really??? So what is Veronica's best time in the 400???
Yes she is. Allyson has said on numerous occasions that she was willinging to give up all 3 of her WC 200m gold medals for just one of VCB's Olympic 200m gold medals. Goes to show you how much highly she thinks of VC's more important medals
How many times am I going to have to clock you on this? Allyson said she was just joking, and wouldn't give up her 3 medals for ONE OLD medal.
vip wrote:There is nothing in Allyson's history to suggest she can get that AR record. She's not that strong. She can win Olympic gold in London but any record, other than a PR, is beyond her reach.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if she got 200 or 400 gold (not sure what event she's aiming for) nor would I be surprised if she ended up with no individual gold.
I seem to recall there was nothing in Beamon's history to suggest he would do 8.90m; or Hemery doing 48.12; or Bolt doing 19.30 and so on and so on. I am sure Felix is capable of going signficantly faster because the reality is that few of us have ever approached our ultimate potential. But will she? I guess we will just have to wait for a few months to find out. Assuming she even can make the USA team.
Comparing relay splits to open legs of the 400m (ESPECIALLY the 2nd LEG) could be considered irrational and an indicator of more complex deficiencies.
That is, there could be a myriad of reasons to blame for one's flawed philosophy. Unfortunately, that may also suggest that a first person (or self) diagnosis is unlikely.
So...lemme hep ya out wit it.
The 2nd leg of the relay (run in lanes outside lane one) may be the shortest...no?
Nevermind the rolling, standing start, which all but the first leg enjoy, the 2nd leg relayist may not run a full lap. After initially remaining in the stagger, just after the bend they BREAK sharply to the inside lane (if not already there). That could do wonders (10ths of second?) to the time it takes to run a lap...no?
Additionally the runner both receives and delivers the stick in a zone, no?
So...
Maybe, just maybe, a runners inhuman split (especially at the elite level) ISN'T a line-item or direct indication of their open ability. MAYBE, just maybe, it's only a rough indicator and not directly transferable- especially if 4 years later their open PR is +1.5 seconds slower.
Just saying.
Maybe it's tougher running a different, longer leg like first or 4th. Worse yet... coming from the blocks and remaining in the same lane.
So, herein may (maybe, just maybe) lie the conclusion of the matter...
TrackDaddy wrote: The 2nd leg of the relay (run in lanes outside lane one) may be the shortest...no?
Nevermind the rolling, standing start, which all but the first leg enjoy, the 2nd leg relayist may not run a full lap. After initially remaining in the stagger, just after the bend they BREAK sharply to the inside lane (if not already there). That could do wonders (10ths of second?) to the time it takes to run a lap...no?
No. In fact, cutting early(before the end of the backstraight) would actually LENGTHEN the leg, though video analysis of Felix's run in Osaka would indicate she maintained a pretty solid line to the curb. However, if anything she ran slightly long.
The shortest leg is the 1st(starts on start line, hands off before the 400m mark)
Additionally the runner both receives and delivers the stick in a zone, no?
All three receive the stick in a zone 10 meters before the 400m mark. Splits are taken when the baton crosses the 400 mark. Split times, therefore, are for 400 meters
Maybe it's tougher running a different, longer leg like first or 4th. Worse yet... coming from the blocks and remaining in the same lane.
Technically, the 1st leg is the SHORTEST leg in terms of actual running, since the 2nd leg will almost always receive the baton before the 400 mark of the 1st leg(though the split should still reflect when the BATON crosses the 400 mark). The 4th is the longest in terms of running, but again the split is for 400m.
MAYBE, just maybe, it's only a rough indicator and not directly transferable- especially if 4 years later their open PR is +1.5 seconds slower.
Just saying.
Four years later, Felix's 4x4 split was 1.33 slower...
chuku69 wrote:Are better yet. When was the last time AF defeated a healthy fit VCB in the 200M?
So any time AF and VCB are in a race and if AF wins, its because VCB was not fit or healthy?
Boy I tell ya, some of yall beat everything I have ever stepped in.
U laugh but i talk facts. The last time a healthy VCB lost to Felix was @ the 2007 world champs. 5 yrs ago!!! VCB has more speed period. As i said if both are healthy in London, as ato boldon said in Beijing, i will say it again, it will be another carbon copy of Athens and Beijing.
I guess this conversation could be whittled down to this question: Whose career would you rather have right now, Allyson's or VCB's?
Then it's a fairly easy answer. If she quit right now, VCB would be among the top 3-4 sprinters all time. And she still has at least another Olympics and WC left.
Allyson is decorated, for sure, but arguably her relay medal haul is equal to or better than her individual medal haul, factoring in the weight of Olympic gold > WC gold. Admittedly, Allyson is also far from done in the sport, and eventually could have the better career eventually.
Allyson is the more proven versatile sprinter, with her 400 superior to VCB at that distance, although VCB never made the 400 a priority.
vip wrote:I guess this conversation could be whittled down to this question: Whose career would you rather have right now, Allyson's or VCB's?
Then it's a fairly easy answer. If she quit right now, VCB would be among the top 3-4 sprinters all time. And she still has at least another Olympics and WC left.
Allyson is decorated, for sure, but arguably her relay medal haul is equal to or better than her individual medal haul, factoring in the weight of Olympic gold > WC gold. Admittedly, Allyson is also far from done in the sport, and eventually could have the better career eventually.
Allyson is the more proven versatile sprinter, with her 400 superior to VCB at that distance, although VCB never made the 400 a priority.
Right now, I would say their overall careers are close to even. VCB has 1 less relay medal than Felix, and Felix has more gold relay medals and WC medals. VCB only maybe gets an upper hand because of her Olympic golds. But, in terms of credentials, it is pretty even at this point in my opinion.
BUT, if VCB wins gold in London in the 200, that would seal the deal forever.
You are reeeacchinngg with your claim and it is so incredibly false, I literally CANNOT with you in this debate 
So any time AF and VCB are in a race and if AF wins, its because VCB was not fit or healthy? 
