Allyson Felix

[Gleason]

I was wrong in May to think that she was going win the 200 & the 400, but now I think I know why. She did endurance training instead of her normal speed work. Her 200 PR is in 2007 and her 100 PR is in 2008. In addition, her 4x400s have become slower at each OG and WCh.

[guru]

Her 200 PR is in 2007 and her 100 PR is in 2008.

Also, I don't think anyone who's remotely objective would suggest her open 400 PR of 49.59 from last year is superior to her relay effort of 48.0 from '07.

Yes, I know a relay split is not an open race, but if we're talking levels of fitness it's pretty clear which was the better effort.

[Gleason]

I agree. This is why I doubt that she needed endurance work. In 2012 I hope that she runs all diamond league meets. When 400 & 200 aren't scheduled - run 100. Then do 400 in May and June and 200 in July and August when scheduled.

[JumboElliott]

She'd be burned out by July?

[Gabriella]

Running a one-off fast 400 off the back of specialist 200m training is pretty commonplace and as we saw in 07 & 08, Felix did this spectacularly. She was a sub 22sec 200m specialist those years, and any specialist with those times should be able to run a great 400m leg.

But running 400m rounds in a championships is different. Though the 400m timetables have become lighter over the years (just 3 rounds not 4) it still requires good endurance to run that event. But then to enter the 400m and the 200m, now that's tough.

Kersee knows what he's doing, he's coached women to surreal achievements in the past; Valerie Brisco-Hooks' great 21.81/48.83 double being one of them. But, and for me there is a big but, I do think he's got it wrong with Felix. VBH was an 'animal'; she was heavily muscled and had huge thighs. She looked the kind of athlete that could take punishment (and punishment she took - often being entered for 400/200 doubles at the same GP meet) Felix, on the other hand, is slight and light and relaxed. She tried a 400/200 GP meet double and was beaten. She is not VBH. This is not the 1980's. Felix was lucky some of the other women sprinters were not in their best form in 2011 as she could have easily missed a 200m medal completely.

She's stated she wants that 200m gold in 2012. Is this the right choice of event? The 200m will see VCB hungry for a third gold and we hope to see an in-form Jeter, Stewart, et al. The 400m is more competitive with her US team mates, Montsho, whichever Russian decides to run fast, Williams x 2 and possibly a Brit. A high 49 is not a great time either; many women can run that. Whichever event/s she runs it will be tough, so she needs to get it right.

[John G]

Running a one-off fast 400 off the back of specialist 200m training is pretty commonplace and as we saw in 07 & 08, Felix did this spectacularly. She was a sub 22sec 200m specialist those years, and any specialist with those times should be able to run a great 400m leg.

But running 400m rounds in a championships is different. Though the 400m timetables have become lighter over the years (just 3 rounds not 4) it still requires good endurance to run that event. But then to enter the 400m and the 200m, now that's tough.

Kersee knows what he's doing, he's coached women to surreal achievements in the past; Valerie Brisco-Hooks' great 21.81/48.83 double being one of them. But, and for me there is a big but, I do think he's got it wrong with Felix. VBH was an 'animal'; she was heavily muscled and had huge thighs. She looked the kind of athlete that could take punishment (and punishment she took - often being entered for 400/200 doubles at the same GP meet) Felix, on the other hand, is slight and light and relaxed. She tried a 400/200 GP meet double and was beaten. She is not VBH. This is not the 1980's. Felix was lucky some of the other women sprinters were not in their best form in 2011 as she could have easily missed a 200m medal completely.

She's stated she wants that 200m gold in 2012. Is this the right choice of event? The 200m will see VCB hungry for a third gold and we hope to see an in-form Jeter, Stewart, et al. The 400m is more competitive with her US team mates, Montsho, whichever Russian decides to run fast, Williams x 2 and possibly a Brit. A high 49 is not a great time either; many women can run that. Whichever event/s she runs it will be tough, so she needs to get it right.

Fully agree with all the above. If the 200 came first then I think AF would certainly double. But running the 400 first really puts the gold she most wants - the 200 - in serious jeopardy.
If she just runs the 200 then I think she is joint favourite - I see her as capable as VCB of runing the 21.7/8 needed. Even if she is relatively fresh for the 400 I don't see her as favourite. There are 5 or 6 currently active runners with faster pbs than her and if Montsho races more lightly in the first half of the season, she'll be well capable of low 49s.

[Gleason]

I agree with the previous postings, but Felix 400/200 double had only 45 min. rest. I recall no such one day double by VBH. In addition Felix was a full - time college student who still peaked in August/September 2007.

[guru]

(Kersee's) coached women to surreal achievements in the past; Valerie Brisco-Hooks' great 21.81/48.83 double being one of them.... This is not the 1980's.

Outstanding post top to bottom Gabriella. But your comment regarding the 80's is particularly spot-on.

I think the bottom line is this - it's probably not fair to compare Felix to anyone from an earlier era - especially the 80's. But when you look at her personal improvement, and the fact she hasn't gotten faster in her bread and butter events(200/400) since '07 when she was 21(and has just one individual gold in the last three global meets), well that's what raises questions.

[notorious]

The only way Allyson has a shot at 200m is if she skips the 400m as well as working on her start/first 100m.


Allyson is not going to run down Veronica/Jeter from behind if they have a big lead at 100m like they did in Daegu.

[tm71]

believe it or not, AF's best chance is in the 400. in her first major meet with rounds she came within a 3 inches of winning. in the 200 she was no where in the race and was no better than 3rd at any point in the race. i dont think she has the 100 speed to keep up with Jeter or VCB in the first 100 and is definitely not going to run them down. as far as her 400 meter competitors, i think this was a carrer year for Montsho, Sanya has her physical problems so it will be tough for her to run rounds, the two Williams' have probably peaked too, only McCrory looks likely to improve, but maybe not go 49 low. I think if Alison focuses on speed endurance, she can easily run low 49 after one heat and one semi and finally become olympic champion in an individual event.

[Gleason]

I agree.

[Speedster]

It's all a learning experience, even for a coach with Kersee's experience and records, every athlete is different and they were only ever going to know if she could do it by trying. I don't see a close silver and a fair bronze as a failure, but it should guide their future plans.

Healthy and off a 100m/200m base she's a 21.8 athlete and a chance at gold, off a 200/400m base she's a 22.3 athlete and a chance of bronze, though I think conditions slowed them in Daegu. Unless she wants to double again, she should be working on improving her 10.93 pb from 2008, as her main competition in the 200m will have that speed to play with. She was fast and fresh in Osaka to be in front of a tired VCB and ran away to win.

There was an interesting article on Irina Privalova in 2000 about how she and her coach selected the 400mh for Sydney based on her chances against Jones and Freeman in the sprints. Im not sure if all athletes look at chances of gold and approach their events in the same way? If she wants Gold, I think her best chance is running the short sprints this season and running the 200m only in London.

[Gabriella]

I agree with the previous postings, but Felix 400/200 double had only 45 min. rest. I recall no such one day double by VBH. In addition Felix was a full - time college student who still peaked in August/September 2007.

VBH did do a couple of 200/400 doubles in 1986. I have it on tape, I just need to double check which GP meet. She won the 200m comfortably then battled her way to the line in the 400m, beating Kocembova.
She also did a 200/400 double in at the GP final; she won the 200 in 22.30 and came second in the 400m behind Koch in 50.21.

VBH was adept at doubling; though not as tough, she did memorably do the 100/200 double in Zurich 1985, beating Gohr in the 100 (in 11.01) and Koch in the 200 (in 21.98). Two days later she ran the 400m in 49.56, showing her range that year.

[fasttrack85]

believe it or not, AF's best chance is in the 400. in her first major meet with rounds she came within a 3 inches of winning. in the 200 she was no where in the race and was no better than 3rd at any point in the race. i dont think she has the 100 speed to keep up with Jeter or VCB in the first 100 and is definitely not going to run them down. as far as her 400 meter competitors, i think this was a carrer year for Montsho, Sanya has her physical problems so it will be tough for her to run rounds, the two Williams' have probably peaked too, only McCrory looks likely to improve, but maybe not go 49 low. I think if Alison focuses on speed endurance, she can easily run low 49 after one heat and one semi and finally become olympic champion in an individual event.

It would seem that AF' s best chance would be the 400 based on this years results but there is alot of potential for disaster in that distance because as John above already said there are about 5 or more runners with higher pb's than her who will be in high gear during an olympic year.

I also feel as though Allyson's pacing strategy was off as well in Deagu and in general in many 400 races. As a solid 200 meter runner she should have not had to run Amantle Montsho down it should have been the other way around and if Allyson had gotten ahead I can't see her being run down by anyone except Sanya circa 2006,2009.

I believe Allysons best shot at gold is solely concentrating on the 200 and running 100's as if she was attempting to make the US team. No amount of endurance will be enough to beat VCB in an olympic year and god forbid CJ and SAF reach top form this year. I think she should go back to her training regimen of 2007-2008 which included a decent amount of open 100's with some 400's scattered here and there. I think Allyson(very much like Usain Bolt) has alot of natural endurance that doesnt need to be trained unless they are doing longer sprints/middle distance. By now they should have figured out front end speed is her issue. I however and foaming at the mouth to see what her and Bobby K have planned for 2012. The fact she is doing the 60m at Millrose games shows maybe they may be onto that already but we will see.

[Gleason]

I'm glad to see her running 60 at Millrose. Because she ran PRs at 200 & 4x400 in 2007 and a 100 PR in 2008, I think that avoiding "Bobby's Boot Camp" is her best chance to win a 400/200 double in London - if she races all Diamond League meets at 100, 200 and 400 but no one day 400/200 doubles.

[GDAWG]

Felix will no doubt be the face of the sport in the United States, at least during London.

[MArTinRoX]

I also Agree This is why I doubt that she needed endurance work. In 2012 I hope that she runs all diamond league meets. When 400 & 200 aren't scheduled - run 100. Then do 400 in May and June and 200 in July and August when scheduled.
Pasadena Fitness Training

[t_monk]

Maybe not all... I mean, I get that she is super talented and whatnot, but the girl will need some rest.

[Gleason]

I disagree. In 2007 she ran six races at the World Championships (4 @ 200, 1 @ 4x100 and 1 @ 4 x 400) in five days with a 48.0r as the final race. I assume that she is stronger now.

[NotSoOrdinary]

I like Allyson and I (unlike most others in this thread) do believe she's a better 200m runner than VCB and most definitely Carmelita <---Who Allyson very nearly caught in Daegu after running the 400, 4 times. I also believe she would've won the GP double with more than the 45 min. rest she had, although that has more to do with everyone else being "off it" than Felix herself.

If she decides to run the 200 in London, I think she'll win. If she decides to run the 400 in London, I think she'll win. If she decides to run them both? Well...

EDIT: Have to say I find it funny that some people in this thread are calling Allyson's 07 200m pb, "old" and essentially "irrelvant because of time" yet the same people are saying/agreeing that 5 or more women can beat her in the 400m and most if not all of their pb's are also "old" and "irrelevant"

[NotSoOrdinary]

off a 200/400m base she's a 22.3 athlete and a chance of bronze,

Ludicrous.

[guru]

I like Allyson and I (unlike most others in this thread) do believe she's a better 200m runner than VCB

More talented, yes. The most talented long sprinter in US history IMO. But the fact of the matter is she ran slower at age 25 in 2011 than she did in HS

...and most definitely Carmelita <---Who Allyson very nearly caught in Daegu after running the 400, 4 times.

Three.

And Jeter beat Felix handily(22.20-22.32) even-up at Monaco.

[t_monk]

I agree that she is definitely better than Jeter in the 200 with the proper focus. I think she CAN win the 200 or the 400 if she runs them alone. I don't think that she will win either if she doubles. She has yet to tap into her full potential with the 400m I think and I see an AR run from her at her best. In the 200m, especially if she doesn't double she can run 21.8x which I think would be enough to get the gold if last year or even the last two years is any indications of what is to come in 2012.

[notorious]

I agree that she is definitely better than Jeter in the 200 with the proper focus. I think she CAN win the 200 or the 400 if she runs them alone. I don't think that she will win either if she doubles. She has yet to tap into her full potential with the 400m I think and I see an AR run from her at her best. In the 200m, especially if she doesn't double she can run 21.8x which I think would be enough to get the gold if last year or even the last two years is any indications of what is to come in 2012.

Allyson breaking the American record of 48.70 for 400? Not anytime soon if ever. She is just not strong enough.

[vip]

There is nothing in Allyson's history to suggest she can get that AR record. She's not that strong. She can win Olympic gold in London but any record, other than a PR, is beyond her reach.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if she got 200 or 400 gold (not sure what event she's aiming for) nor would I be surprised if she ended up with no individual gold.

[ATK]

I cant imagine Allyson wining anything but the 200 in London. And that is only if she focuses on it solely. Many of these women in the 400 will be stepping up their game this year and even if Allyson focuses only on the 400, I would put most of the already 400m women to finish ahead of her.
If she doubles, she will lose both. No way is she beating VCB and Jeter after 400 rounds.
Also I don't see anyone coming near that American record. In the past 8 years, besides SRR, the fastest woman has run 49.29.

[26mi235]

There is nothing in Allyson's history to suggest she can get that AR record. She's not that strong.

Uhh, what about 48.0, run without any drafting to speak of? Is that really a lot slower with no promise of being within sniffing, especially with 21.7 speed.

[guru]

There is nothing in Allyson's history to suggest she can get that AR record. She's not that strong.

Uhh, what about 48.0, run without any drafting to speak of? Is that really a lot slower with no promise of being within sniffing, especially with 21.7 speed.

You'd be hard-pressed to find that incarnation of Felix with a search warrant...

[t_monk]

I honestly think that Felix is just about as talented as Sanya... If Sanya can get a 49.70, I think that Felix can as well is she tries. 48.0 relay leg and her 21.8x speed. I think she is very apt at getting to 48.70 if she truly focuses.

[26mi235]

There is nothing in Allyson's history to suggest she can get that AR record. She's not that strong.

Uhh, what about 48.0, run without any drafting to speak of? Is that really a lot slower with no promise of being within sniffing, especially with 21.7 speed.

You'd be hard-pressed to find that incarnation of Felix with a search warrant...

Irrelevant if you think she is not going there any more, there certainly is something in her history that suggest she could (have?).

[fasttrack85]

There is nothing in Allyson's history to suggest she can get that AR record. She's not that strong.

Uhh, what about 48.0, run without any drafting to speak of? Is that really a lot slower with no promise of being within sniffing, especially with 21.7 speed.

You'd be hard-pressed to find that incarnation of Felix with a search warrant...

Irrelevant if you think she is not going there any more, there certainly is something in her history that suggest she could (have?).

There may be a certain damning irony to Allyson over concentrating on the 400. She may actually get slower at both that distance and the 200. I feel that sprinters should try to win that race with front end speed and have just enough endurance to hold on. Marita Koch who is the world record holder at that distance has I think the fifth fastest 200 meter time ever and the fastest of any major 400 runner at 21.71. Basically all the fastest 400 girls could compete with the best in the 200's at the time when they achieved personal best in the 400(Kratcholova, Perec, Richards-Ross, Hooks). To me Allyson Felix personal best is her 48.0 relay leg achieved in 07 the same year as her 21.81 pb. Not only that but she had alot less experience and practice then and was just running with alot more speed.

She seems to be training for the 400 like an 800 meter runner because the fact that she was trying to chase down someone like Amantle Montsho in Deagu with pb's of 11.60 and 23.01 doesn't really make sense to me. Allyson should have been leading easily until at least 300 and just maintained her lead not trying to rev up the engine at 350 meters when it was too late. I was more dissapointed with her 400 performance than anything because at least in the 200 she just didn't have the speed to beat VCB and CJ but she def could have shut Montsho down.

I dont know what Bobby is doing but I think he is trying to duplicate a training regime that worked for athletes with different physiiolgy than Felix. Slightly built people are easily overtrained on high volume regimens. I really think Allyson in training for the 400 shouldnt be running more than 800's in practice and if anything more 500's, 600's, and a whole bunch of 300's at blazing speed. She doesn't need to compromise her speed and needs just enough endurance to not collapse in the last 100. I can only hope they get it right because this may be her last real good shot at Olympic Gold which I know she wants so bad.

[fasttrack85]

There is nothing in Allyson's history to suggest she can get that AR record. She's not that strong.

Uhh, what about 48.0, run without any drafting to speak of? Is that really a lot slower with no promise of being within sniffing, especially with 21.7 speed.

You'd be hard-pressed to find that incarnation of Felix with a search warrant...

Irrelevant if you think she is not going there any more, there certainly is something in her history that suggest she could (have?).

There may be a certain damning irony to Allyson over concentrating on the 400. She may actually get slower at both that distance and the 200. I feel that sprinters should try to win that race with front end speed and have just enough endurance to hold on. Marita Koch who is the world record holder at that distance has I think the fifth fastest 200 meter time ever and the fastest of any major 400 runner at 21.71. Basically all the fastest 400 girls could compete with the best in the 200's at the time when they achieved personal best in the 400(Kratcholova, Perec, Richards-Ross, Hooks). To me Allyson Felix personal best is her 48.0 relay leg achieved in 07 the same year as her 21.81 pb. Not only that but she had alot less experience and practice then and was just running with alot more speed.

She seems to be training for the 400 like an 800 meter runner because the fact that she was trying to chase down someone like Amantle Montsho in Deagu with pb's of 11.60 and 23.01 doesn't really make sense to me. Allyson should have been leading easily until at least 300 and just maintained her lead not trying to rev up the engine at 350 meters when it was too late. I was more dissapointed with her 400 performance than anything because at least in the 200 she just didn't have the speed to beat VCB and CJ but she def could have shut Montsho down.

I dont know what Bobby is doing but I think he is trying to duplicate a training regime that worked for athletes with different physiiolgy than Felix. Slightly built people are easily overtrained on high volume regimens. I really think Allyson in training for the 400 shouldnt be running more than 800's in practice and if anything more 500's, 600's, and a whole bunch of 300's at blazing speed. She doesn't need to compromise her speed and needs just enough endurance to not collapse in the last 100. I can only hope they get it right because this may be her last real good shot at Olympic Gold which I know she wants so bad.

[NotSoOrdinary]

I like Allyson and I (unlike most others in this thread) do believe she's a better 200m runner than VCB

More talented, yes. The most talented long sprinter in US history IMO. But the fact of the matter is she ran slower at age 25 in 2011 than she did in HS

...and most definitely Carmelita <---Who Allyson very nearly caught in Daegu after running the 400, 4 times.

Three.

And Jeter beat Felix handily(22.20-22.32) even-up at Monaco.

Jeter wasn't in heavy training the same way Allyson was at the time.

I'd like to know how you figure Allyson ran slower in 2011 than (FS,SOPH,JR,SR.) in high school. Are you saying she ran slower in the 200m final, on that day, after those races, than she did in ONE 200m race in ONE of the years I listed? If so

[NotSoOrdinary]

Many of these women in the 400 will be stepping up their game this year and even if Allyson focuses only on the 400, I would put most of the already 400m women to finish ahead of her.

I'd really like to know how you've come to this...

[NotSoOrdinary]

I honestly think that Felix is just about as talented as Sanya... If Sanya can get a 49.70, I think that Felix can as well is she tries. 48.0 relay leg and her 21.8x speed. I think she is very apt at getting to 48.70 if she truly focuses.

Much in the same way AF was born with the speed she has without looking like some freakazoid straight out of Muscle & Fitness, Sanya was born with the better ability at 400m. Allyson right now and at her best (as a 200/400) runner is not in the same class as Sanya. HOWEVER, if Allyson decided to completely drop the 200 and focus solely on the 400 for the rest of her career, I think we'd see some awesome races (as long as Sanya is at her best as well.)