A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (Locked down several times a year during the major championships)
The article refers to a Denver Bronco who was ostracized after refusing to stand for the national anthem. Any American citizen might be critized for such disrespect but what in Islam ordains it?
It was a member of the Denver Nuggets who refused to stand for the national anthem.
There is no question in my mind that a lot of people who deify Tebow currently would be ostracizing him if he praised Allah at the start of every news conference and struck poses which were more befitting of a Muslim after every TD even if he were exactly the same person publicly.
The article refers to a Denver Bronco who was ostracized after refusing to stand for the national anthem. Any American citizen might be critized for such disrespect but what in Islam ordains it?
It was a member of the Denver Nuggets who refused to stand for the national anthem.
There is no question in my mind that a lot of people who deify Tebow currently would be ostracizing him if he praised Allah at the start of every news conference and struck poses which were more befitting of a Muslim after every TD even if he were exactly the same person publicly.
......and a lot of the people who are ostracizing Tebow now wouldn't be if he were Muslim.....my bottom line is that somebody's prayer is not really any of my business, if you don't like seeing it, don't watch. There are a lot worse things so called religious Muslims and/or Christians do.
The article refers to a Denver Bronco who was ostracized after refusing to stand for the national anthem. Any American citizen might be critized for such disrespect but what in Islam ordains it?
It was a member of the Denver Nuggets who refused to stand for the national anthem.
There is no question in my mind that a lot of people who deify Tebow currently would be ostracizing him if he praised Allah at the start of every news conference and struck poses which were more befitting of a Muslim after every TD even if he were exactly the same person publicly.
......and a lot of the people who are ostracizing Tebow now wouldn't be if he were Muslim.....my bottom line is that somebody's prayer is not really any of my business, if you don't like seeing it, don't watch. There are a lot worse things so called religious Muslims and/or Christians do.
It simply doesn't work that way. Let's all talk about Islam/Koran/Mohammad. I've read a few books on it. Oh yeah, that sort of thing is frowned on...here...why is that? Why can't we talk about religion? Just don't read it if you're not interested....right?
dukehjsteve wrote:Religion is personal. Sex is personal. Do one inside your church, do the other inside your home. Don't wear either one on your sleeve.
...and yet so many people don't comprehend (accept) this simple concept.
dukehjsteve wrote:Religion is personal. Sex is personal. Do one inside your church, do the other inside your home. Don't wear either one on your sleeve.
Then there are those who don't go around all worried about what others think. I think we all agree that what Tebow does is far better than some stupid looking dance or dunk over the crossbar. He makes it pretty obvious he's doing what he does for himself and would do if all alone.
dukehjsteve wrote:Religion is personal. Sex is personal. Do one inside your church, do the other inside your home. Don't wear either one on your sleeve.
Then there are those who don't go around all worried about what others think. I think we all agree that what Tebow does is far better than some stupid looking dance or dunk over the crossbar. He makes it pretty obvious he's doing what he does for himself and would do if all alone.
dukehjsteve wrote:I certainly agree. He's a good person.
The local paper is obsessed with him - we get several articles a week. The one secular thing that keeps him straight is his knowledge that he is a role model, and all his behaviors are public, so he must behave in a fashion befitting his image.
dukehjsteve wrote:Religion is personal. Sex is personal. Do one inside your church, do the other inside your home. Don't wear either one on your sleeve.
I guess the whole 1st amendment regarding religion and speech just rubs you the wrong way then.
The comparison of religious expression to sex is somewhat bizarre.
I'm with dukehjsteve and Pego, keep it to yourself... First Amendment approval does not mean somethink should endlessly and irrelevantly flaunted...I am skeptical that God take sides in athletics.
lonewolf wrote:I'm with dukehjsteve and Pego, keep it to yourself... First Amendment approval does not mean it should be flaunted.
If only people would do the same with their political beliefs...politics belongs only in the voting booth -- I don't care to hear people's discourses or rants on it.
And sports... I really don't give a rat's what anyone else thinks about some silly game.
lonewolf wrote: I am skeptical that God take sides in athletics.
If he did I suspect the Manchester United Red Devils would have been relegated permanently years ago...
And of course the Duke Blue Devils...
PS. And by the way, my old high school Hinsdale Central are the Red Devils and have been for decades and have won oodles of state titles including 12 boys swimming in a row once. A few years ago an evangelical family moved to town and wanted to start a rumpus about changing the name to something less satanic. Needless to say that didn't go very far.
TV guy....lets talk to the gold and silver medalists So another great race Speedy. Speedy...first off I'd like to thank me savior Jesus Christ if not for Him....yakyakyak. TV guy...ok, thank you Speedy So what happened Blaze? Blaze....nothing, Speedy had Jesus Christ in his corner, you can't beat that. TV guy...ok
lonewolf wrote:I'm with dukehjsteve and Pego, keep it to yourself... First Amendment approval does not mean it should be flaunted.
If only people would do the same with their political beliefs...politics belongs only in the voting booth -- I don't care to hear people's discourses or rants on it.
But, all principles of politics are about public discourse (ideas exchange). Religion is a private bond between the believer and his maker. I don't see the parallels here.
Vince wrote:I guess the whole 1st amendment regarding religion and speech just rubs you the wrong way then.
The 1st amendment protection is from the government interference. No cop has arrested Tebow. It does not insulate anybody from public criticism. You want to do a public display, expect reaction.
dukehjsteve wrote:Religion is personal. Sex is personal. Do one inside your church, do the other inside your home. Don't wear either one on your sleeve.
I guess the whole 1st amendment regarding religion and speech just rubs you the wrong way then.
The comparison of religious expression to sex is somewhat bizarre.
What's bizarre about it ? All I was and am saying is that a person's religious beliefs are personal, and a person's sex life is personal. That's the only connection I'm alluding to. No "comparison" is being made other than that.
lonewolf wrote:I'm with dukehjsteve and Pego, keep it to yourself... First Amendment approval does not mean it should be flaunted.
If only people would do the same with their political beliefs...politics belongs only in the voting booth -- I don't care to hear people's discourses or rants on it.
And sports... I really don't give a rat's what anyone else thinks about some silly game.
A silly game? Like movies/songs/books...silly? Could we live without any of those...yep!
Marlow wrote:The one secular thing that keeps him straight is his knowledge that he is a role model, and all his behaviors are public, so he must behave in a fashion befitting his image.
Kinda like all the other NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB players who have behaved so well in keeping with their role-model roles?
DrJay wrote:Kinda like all the other NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB players who have behaved so well in keeping with their role-model roles?
Not really. Most just shrug their shoulders and say what Sir Charles always said - that he didn't choose to be a role model and didn't like that role. Very, very few public figures embrace that role - Tebow does.
lonewolf wrote:I'm with dukehjsteve and Pego, keep it to yourself... First Amendment approval does not mean it should be flaunted.
If only people would do the same with their political beliefs...politics belongs only in the voting booth -- I don't care to hear people's discourses or rants on it.
But, all principles of politics are about public discourse (ideas exchange). Religion is a private bond between the believer and his maker. I don't see the parallels here.
Vince wrote:I guess the whole 1st amendment regarding religion and speech just rubs you the wrong way then.
The 1st amendment protection is from the government interference. No cop has arrested Tebow. It does not insulate anybody from public criticism. You want to do a public display, expect reaction.
Righto...... feel free to pass judgment on how someone is supposed to bond with his maker. After all it's really more of a reflection on you.
In my mind saying Tebow is 'flaunting' his religion is wrong minded, his religious beliefs are his life. He does good work, cut him some slack. C'mon people, you probably have problems with the Amish too.
DrJay wrote:Kinda like all the other NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB players who have behaved so well in keeping with their role-model roles?
Not really. Most just shrug their shoulders and say what Sir Charles always said - that he didn't choose to be a role model and didn't like that role. Very, very few public figures embrace that role - Tebow does.
I know. Question is, will that last as long as his career? I don't care much one way or the other, but there will be a big contingent waiting for one misstep. I could see someone paying some of Tiger's floozies a lot of $$$ to try and seduce Tebow. Talk about tabloid fodder. (After that, he'd be well-credentialed to run for public office.)
Vince wrote:feel free to pass judgment on how someone is supposed to bond with his maker. After all it's really more of a reflection on you.
Show me, where i said "how"? You are obviously trying to pick a fight. Repeatedly so. Many people of deep faith share my dislike of Tebowing, so stop all this ad hominem. At times it seems a reasonable debate is possible with you, next thing you throw a gratuitous punch below the belt.
DrJay wrote:I know. Question is, will that last as long as his career? I don't care much one way or the other, but there will be a big contingent waiting for one misstep.
I honestly don't think Tebow can be anything other than exactly what he is right now - a very pious Christian. Pious used to be a compliment, now it's a derogatory word . . . interesting.
DrJay wrote:I know. Question is, will that last as long as his career? I don't care much one way or the other, but there will be a big contingent waiting for one misstep.
I honestly don't think Tebow can be anything other than exactly what he is right now - a very pious Christian. Pious used to be a compliment, now it's a derogatory word . . . interesting.
Vince wrote:feel free to pass judgment on how someone is supposed to bond with his maker. After all it's really more of a reflection on you.
Show me, where i said "how"? You are obviously trying to pick a fight. Repeatedly so. Many people of deep faith share my dislike of Tebowing, so stop all this ad hominem. At times it seems a reasonable debate is possible with you, next thing you throw a gratuitous punch below the belt.
Ok, here goes.......show me where I misunderstand what you are saying...you say you dislike "Tebowing", which is Tim Tebow's way of bonding with his maker.....doesn't it follow that you are passing judgement on the way he bonds with his maker?
No. He can pray as he wishes. Doing it publicly, constantly, invites criticism even from his own co-religionists. This is the key. I really don't give a rat's ass what he does.
Pego wrote:No. He can pray as he wishes. Doing it publicly, constantly, invites criticism even from his own co-religionists. This is the key. I really don't give a rat's ass what he does.
Of course, that is right. And I don't care what he does either.
Frankly, now he is Elway's problem....good luck with that.
Pego wrote:He can pray as he wishes. Doing it publicly, constantly, invites criticism even from his own co-religionists.
It does? Why? How does his prayer inhibit anyone else's 'pursuit of happiness'? I can't see how it should bother anyone at all. I chalk it up there with piercings and tattoos and weird hair/clothes. When I see it I just shrug my shoulders, smile and say, 'whatever'.
Pego wrote:He can pray as he wishes. Doing it publicly, constantly, invites criticism even from his own co-religionists.
It does? Why? How does his prayer inhibit anyone else's 'pursuit of happiness'? I can't see how it should bother anyone at all. I chalk it up there with piercings and tattoos and weird hair/clothes. When I see it I just shrug my shoulders, smile and say, 'whatever'.
You like it, Vince likes it, Avante likes it, some others like it. Steve doesn't, lonewolf doesn't, Conor Dary doesn't, I don't, some others don't. Reasons have been debated going around and around. Any further arguments would serve no good purpose.
Pego wrote:He can pray as he wishes. Doing it publicly, constantly, invites criticism even from his own co-religionists.
It does? Why? How does his prayer inhibit anyone else's 'pursuit of happiness'? I can't see how it should bother anyone at all. I chalk it up there with piercings and tattoos and weird hair/clothes. When I see it I just shrug my shoulders, smile and say, 'whatever'.
You like it, . . . Any further arguments would serve no good purpose.
I don't like it or not like it . . . the second part is very true!
Pego wrote:He can pray as he wishes. Doing it publicly, constantly, invites criticism even from his own co-religionists.
It does? Why? How does his prayer inhibit anyone else's 'pursuit of happiness'? I can't see how it should bother anyone at all. I chalk it up there with piercings and tattoos and weird hair/clothes. When I see it I just shrug my shoulders, smile and say, 'whatever'.
You like it, . . . Any further arguments would serve no good purpose.
I don't like it or not like it . . . the second part is very true!
Actually I didn't say I liked it either. It just doesn't bother me like it does you(Pego).
Last edited by Vince on Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
So another great race Speedy.