Penn State/State Pen [split]


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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:52 pm

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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:57 pm

mojo wrote:
guru wrote:
Marlow wrote:JoePa just announced his retirement for after this season. Good idea.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-573 ... e-tragedy/



Not enough. He needs to go immediately. Too bad he doesn't realize it, because I suspect the Board will do it for him.



Agreed guru. Gone. NOW. And the president and anyone else who knew of this to any degree.

Not one of these people put the children first. You see a man raping a young boy and walk away? Is that not aiding and abetting a serious crime? I can not get past that. How abandoned that poor little guy must have felt.


I agree completely. Paterno saying he will retire at the end of the season is ridiculous. The guy has to go now.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby balzonia » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:01 pm

Cooter Brown wrote:I don't know if you can sue a university into bankruptcy and closure but we're about to find out.


In regards to restitution for the victims, beyond whatever $$$ settlement they may get, PSU needs to offer "full scholarships" (equivalent to a marquee football recruit) and all campus perks that go along with being a PSU football player to any and all of the victims and their offspring/descendants for the next 5 generations.

This act destroyed many families, perhaps PSU can salvage some of the victims' futures by offering a higher education to each future generation of descendants.

I thought the same thing about the Notre Dame kid who was killed after climbing a rig in gale force winds to film football practice.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:02 pm

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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:15 pm

Just announced on ESPN. And rightly so. Also President is out.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Friar » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:23 pm

Paterno out

Well it was a calculated closing move by Joe --or those advising him-- and it had a chance of working, as ridiculous as it was. But too many others are thinking about themselves now.
So he had to go... not just in a few weeks when he was ready.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:38 pm

Watching this press conference, and the absolute roasting the Board chairman was taking from what I assume were Penn State student journalists, the game atmosphere Saturday is going to be an absolute circus. That's if Penn State hasn't been burned to the ground by then.

I will say this though - while I fully agree he had to go, I am appalled that they dismissed Paterno by telephone.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:41 pm

guru wrote:Watching this press conference, and the absolute roasting the Board chairman was taking from what I assume were Penn State student journalists, the game atmosphere Saturday is going to be an absolute circus. That's if Penn State hasn't been burned to the ground by then.

I will say this though - while I fully agree he had to go, I am appalled that they dismissed Paterno by telephone.


I was listening also. I was almost expecting one of those idiots to blame the kids.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:45 pm

One of our local sports radio guys said that the Penn State job has now become radioactive and that they can forget about getting any of the big names they might have had in mind, such as Urban Meyer and Nick Saban.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:47 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:One of our local sports radio guys said that the Penn State job has now become radioactive and that they can forget about getting any of the big names they might have had in mind, such as Urban Meyer and Nick Saban.



Wonder if the former Temple coach, who got blindsided after taking the job down at Miami this year, would be interested in coming home. Would seem like a good choice from many angles.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:24 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:One of our local sports radio guys said that the Penn State job has now become radioactive and that they can forget about getting any of the big names they might have had in mind, such as Urban Meyer and Nick Saban.


hmm.... the half-life of any gamma-ray exposure on any BCS opening is oh.... 6 months, max?

My guess is that they will have zero problem filling the vacancy with a highly qualified applicant. Allow me to perhaps be the first ever to conflate Milton with big-league football: "better to reign in hell than serve in heaven" (Book 1, Paradise Lost)
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:13 am

Paterno has tried to make what he was told by Mcgeary, as fuzzy as possible, but imo what transpired, maybe not literally but in ESSENCE was....

Hey coach I saw a crime commited in our locker room, should Icall the police?

No, do not call the police, I will inform a school adminstrator about your sugar coated version of the crime and when nothing is done we will just forget it ever happened.

That is unforgivable.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:45 am

Apparently, Paterno never asked Sandusky anything. I suppose that might be the most awkward conversation to have, but what did he think about every time he talked with Sandusky thereafter (or did he avoid talking with him completely?).

The grad assistant maintains that he told both Paterno and the two others, at the later meeting, explicitly what he saw. That bodes ill for both Paterno and the two guys because it is more clear that they took it nowhere while doing the necessary step to help keep Sandusky out of their place. Bad enough to ban him but not to even talk to campus police; the VP was in charge of campus police, so he should have had a much better appreciation of the implications. Did he talk to his attorney about this? Would that be a privileged conversation?

In addition, I read that one former player said that there was widespread rumors that somethings were going on. If this is the case, then somewhere, someone will say what he had heard and those above, from the coach to the guys that have been charged will be in even deeper hot water because they then were covering up the situation, not merely guilty of make a dubious decision to not go to police.

"In addition to severe reputational damage, Pennsylvania State University faces the prospect of huge financial exposure from lawsuits by sexual-abuse victims who can credibly charge the university had ample warning that its former assistant football coach preyed on children but did little or nothing to stop it, say trial lawyers who have been following the case."

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/133584523.html
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:51 am

The feds are now getting involved, apparently they will try to determine who knew about this and did not report it to police as they are required to do.

To clarify, the head officals at the college are required by law, not Mcgeary of Paterno.
Last edited by SQUACKEE on Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:57 am

26mi235 wrote:Pennsylvania State University faces the prospect of huge financial exposure from lawsuits by sexual-abuse victims who can credibly charge the university had ample warning that its former assistant football coach preyed on children but did little or nothing to stop it, say trial lawyers who have been following the case.


SQUACKEE wrote:The feds are now getting involved, apparently they will try to determine who knew about this and did not report it to police as they are required to do.

Even with the slaughter last night, they haven't seen the worst of this yet . . .

Now, the interesting part of all this is that there must be lots of skeletons buried on other campuses and have they learned it's better to tattle on oneself or face the prospect of being outed by victims emboldened by this (and Herman Cain's) case? :shock:
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:04 am

SQUACKEE wrote:Paterno has tried to make what he was told by Mcgeary, as fuzzy as possible, but imo what transpired, maybe not literally but in ESSENCE was....

Hey coach I saw a crime commited in our locker room, should Icall the police?

No, do not call the police, I will inform a school adminstrator about your sugar coated version of the crime and when nothing is done we will just forget it ever happened.

That is unforgivable.

I don't think Paterno is that cynical. I think it was simply a case of him lacking the strength to do the right thing. Sandusky had been with him as either a player or coach for nearly 40 years, including the glory years of the 1980's, and he was probably like a son to him. I doubt that he ever felt good about the way the whole thing was handled. Maybe he was hoping that his A.D. or President would go to the cops and spare him of having to do something that would have been gut-wrenching. Mark Madoff did the right thing when he ratted his father out to the Feds and it eventually drove him to suicide.

Also, Paterno's age may have some bearing on his reaction since he came from a generation where it was a lot more common to sweep these things under the rug.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:10 am

26mi235 wrote:Apparently, Paterno never asked Sandusky anything. I suppose that might be the most awkward conversation to have, but what did he think about every time he talked with Sandusky thereafter (or did he avoid talking with him completely?).

Paterno and Sandusky had to have had some conversation when Paterno forced his retirement in 1999 and made him return his keys to the facilities in 2002.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Halfmiler2 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:14 am

I heard from a Penn State alumnus some years ago that Harry Groves was pressured to retire as the track coach because Paterno wanted to have the most years as a head coach at Penn State. I can't vouch that this was true, but certainly Paterno would have been better off retiring long ago instead of this sad legacy.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:30 am

jazzcyclist wrote:I don't think Paterno is that cynical. I think it was simply a case of him lacking the strength to do the right.
.


I dont think it was a matter of strenght.There is no smoking gun YET, but I believe Paterno knew EVERYTHING, either from Mcgeary that day or thru the grapevine afterwards (years and years after the rape and nobody talked about it? come on!) and he willing covered it up. I believe this will be proven eventually.

What amazes my is the stupidity of the people who hoped it would go away! This preadtor is so brazen, he's raping a 10 year old on the campus, and they didnt think he is going to get caught and everything will be revealed???? STOOPID! :roll:
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jhc68 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:42 am

Yeah, serial sex criminals are stupid, but I doubt they believe they will never get caught. It's too deep and too nightmarish a quagmire to try to figure out why people persist in reprehensible behavior for decades... Madoff comes to mind.
Anyone else struck with the institutional comparisons here to various church heirarchy reactions to alleged or proven sexual predators among the clergy?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:47 am

gh wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:One of our local sports radio guys said that the Penn State job has now become radioactive and that they can forget about getting any of the big names they might have had in mind, such as Urban Meyer and Nick Saban.


hmm.... the half-life of any gamma-ray exposure on any BCS opening is oh.... 6 months, max?

My guess is that they will have zero problem filling the vacancy with a highly qualified applicant. Allow me to perhaps be the first ever to conflate Milton with big-league football: "better to reign in hell than serve in heaven" (Book 1, Paradise Lost)


Not in this case...this isn't tattoos for memorabilia...

'The NCAA is not going to have to do anything," said a BCS official speaking anonymously because of the sensitive nature of the situation. "They can sit back and watch the house burn down."

Penn State's Board of Trustees tossed the first match Wednesday night, firing its iconic head coach along with the university's president.

Penn State football as we know it is officially over.

It might survive as primordial ooze. The program is more toxic than radiation and its troubles will have nothing to do with losing 30 scholarships over the next three years.

There is no patching Penn State back together. The program will have to be rebuilt from scratch.

"It will be a pretty clean sweep, it appears," former Penn State quarterback Todd Blackledge said on ESPN, even before the firings were announced. "A lot of new faces, new policies, new processes put in place, which will be good in the long run. … It's going to take time."

We're guessing 10 years.'

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co ... ull.column
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:06 am

Only some parts are 'broke', even if fundamentally the key part. They also have had a clean slate officially from the NCAA and consistently a high or very high graduation rate. Further, the reputation issues should not touch that whole compliance side of the organization and similar parts.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:13 am

According to reports, this was a widely known secret among team staff, so now who's blameless there? Strictly speaking . . . NO one. Every coach must have known what happened and how it was (not) handled. So . . . just as strictly speaking . . . don't they ALL have to go now? :shock:

As I said above, this should be scaring the crap out of people all over the country who are tacitly complicit in all sorts of sleazy stuff, including the knowledge of all the inappropriate relationships between staff and students, which goes on almost EVERYWHERE?!
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:25 am

Marlow wrote:According to reports, this was a widely known secret among team staff, so now who's blameless there? Strictly speaking . . . NO one. Every coach must have known what happened and how it was (not) handled. So . . . just as strictly speaking . . . don't they ALL have to go now? :shock:

As I said above, this should be scaring the crap out of people all over the country who are tacitly complicit in all sorts of sleazy stuff, including the knowledge of all the inappropriate relationships between staff and students, which goes on almost EVERYWHERE?!


Its nice to get the reports of something we should already suspect. 8 years of gossip in a small town????, many, many people knew there was a serial child rapist on the loose and did NOTHING!
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:27 am

SQUACKEE wrote:I dont think it was a matter of strenght.There is no smoking gun YET, but I believe Paterno knew EVERYTHING, either from Mcgeary that day

McQueary's 2002 conversation with Paterno would qualify as a smoking gun in my mind.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:32 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:I dont think it was a matter of strenght.There is no smoking gun YET, but I believe Paterno knew EVERYTHING, either from Mcgeary that day

McQueary's 2002 conversation with Paterno would qualify as a smoking gun in my mind.

As with Watergate: what did he know and when did he know it? I believe Paterno must have known it all from the first report. Human nature is such that the guy who saw the first incident would have told Paterno everything, and Paterno would have questioned him further.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Cooter Brown » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:39 am

The journalist (Madden) quoted here wrote about this Sandusky case coming out way back in April. Everything he said then has been proven to be spot on. It was pretty much ignored by media back then.

"I can give you a rumor and I can give you something I think might happen," Madden told John Dennis and Gerry Callahan. "I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation -- and hold on to your stomachs, boys, this is gross, I will use the only language I can -- that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors. That was being investigated by two prominent columnists even as I speak."
http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandu ... adden.html
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:42 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:I dont think it was a matter of strenght.There is no smoking gun YET, but I believe Paterno knew EVERYTHING, either from Mcgeary that day

McQueary's 2002 conversation with Paterno would qualify as a smoking gun in my mind.


I see your point although I am looking forward to the day that it is established that Paterno knew every horrible detail.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:44 am

Cooter Brown wrote:Everything he said then has been proven to be spot on.

"Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors."


This is not spot-on, but if it were true, Penn St. would have to turn out the lights and lock the doors. They'd be . . . done.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:45 am

This morning I saw the first 15 minutes of CNN's American Morning and it was all Penn State and it was also absolutely brutal. That type of press coverage must be the worst nightmare for the board of trustees. One example of how toxic Penn State has become is the fact that the Nebraska chancellor felt the need to distance itself from Penn State because of their upcoming game this weekend.
Nebraska chancellor Harvey Perlman says his school's participation in Saturday's game at Penn State "in no way condones the conduct that has been alleged or makes a statement about the truth or falsity" of allegations of child sex abuse by a former PSU assistant coach.

Perlman's statement Wednesday night followed the firings of PSU coach Joe Paterno and president Graham Spanier.

Perlman said players from both schools have worked hard to be in a position to play. "I hope all fans will be respectful of the contest between these student-athletes, even as we share in the outrage of what is alleged and the pain suffered by the victims."

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... ate-issues
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Cooter Brown » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:47 am

Marlow wrote:This is not spot-on, but if it were true, Penn St. would have to turn out the lights and lock the doors. They'd be . . . done.


Read before you quote.

He just said what I quoted yesterday not in April. The columnists are just now looking into it.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby BisonHurdler » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:48 am

SQUACKEE wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:I dont think it was a matter of strenght.There is no smoking gun YET, but I believe Paterno knew EVERYTHING, either from Mcgeary that day

McQueary's 2002 conversation with Paterno would qualify as a smoking gun in my mind.


I see your point although I am looking forward to the day that it is established that Paterno knew every horrible detail.


And it's your attitude, Squack, that most of America unfortunately shares: eager, excited, and hopeful to find out that their most horrid, tawdry, despicable assumptions are correct.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby cullman » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:49 am

Mere coincidence?
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/11/pen ... other-game

<<...he stayed coach just long enough to become the winningest coach in Division I college football history, a record he achieved two weeks ago, 11 months after said grand jury investigation (see page 8 referencing December 2010 interviews). Had his complicit role come to light last December would Paterno have had a shot at his record-breaking victory? If present outrage would have held, and it should have, then no, he wouldn't have coached at all this season. ...

...On Saturday, Coach Paterno would have set yet another record, for most games coached in a career. He would've passed Amos Alonzo Stagg but instead the two will remain tied at 548 games.>>

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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:51 am

BisonHurdler wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:I dont think it was a matter of strenght.There is no smoking gun YET, but I believe Paterno knew EVERYTHING, either from Mcgeary that day

McQueary's 2002 conversation with Paterno would qualify as a smoking gun in my mind.


I see your point although I am looking forward to the day that it is established that Paterno knew every horrible detail.


And it's your attitude, Squack, that most of America unfortunately shares: eager, excited, and hopeful to find out that their most horrid, tawdry, despicable assumptions are correct.


The ONLY thing I desire is truth and justice for the victims, what the hell do you want?!
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby BisonHurdler » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:25 am

SQUACKEE wrote:[
The ONLY thing I desire is truth and justice for the victims, what the hell do you want?!


I'd love the same. I'm just confused as to why you look forward to hearing that Joe Paterno knew every horrible detail and apparently let it all go on under his watch. In fact, I would hope that any rational person would want to find out the opposite, that Paterno knew much less than we give him credit for (as unlikely as that may be), which would at least give the impression that he was a somewhat decent human being after all.

You (from the language in your post, at least) as well as everyone else have been taking great joy in hoping that Paterno, in fact, intentionally covered up Sandusky's atrocious crimes for his own agenda. Perhaps you worded your post erroneously, but "looking forward to the day that it is established that Paterno knew every horrible detail" has nothing to do with easing victims' suffering and everything to do with taking joy in watching someone else burn.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:40 am

I have seen no evidence of any one taking pleasure in PS's downfall, just disgust.

As for Paterno, it is pretty obvious he knew plenty, but was too delusional, Matt Millen's word last night, and self absorbed to do anything about it.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby mojo » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:41 am

Saw on CNN that the coach who witnessed the rape and did nothing will be coaching this weekend's game and has not resigned nor been asked to thus far. WTF?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby BisonHurdler » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:47 am

Conor Dary wrote:I have seen no evidence of any one taking pleasure in PS's downfall, just disgust.

As for Paterno, it is pretty obvious he knew plenty, but was too delusional, Matt Millen's word last night, and self absorbed to do anything about it.


Again, speculation.

I'm not a Paterno apologist, and I never have been. But what is most obvious is that 99% of us have a very poor understanding of just what kind of information was passed up the chain of command, and how it was handled.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:49 am

No humor from Scott Ostler today. His lead:

<<Many folks in the media have been asking: What will this terrible scandal do to Joe Paterno's legacy?

Folks, this is Joe Paterno's legacy.

E-mails jump into my inbox defending Paterno, many of them from Pennsylvania, pointing out his won-lost record, his years of service and his reputation.

Wonderful. Still, from now on when I think of Paterno, I won't think of his 400-and-whatever wins or his spotless (until now) program.

I won't remember what Paterno did, but what he didn't do. What he didn't do is what got him fired Wednesday by the Penn State board of trustees.

Firing Joe Paterno doesn't fix everything, but it's a great start...>>

And his conclusion:

<<Several e-mailers demand, "Have you ever heard of due process?"

The due process I've heard of involves a justice system and a legal trial. Paterno faces no legal action or charge. Legally, his rear end is covered.

But there was no trial when Paterno was sainted, no jury declared him one of the noblest and finest college coaches of all time. The public decided.

It's the same deal on the flip side. We'll take the facts and form them into our personal legacy of Joe Paterno.>>


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... z1dKGJgVv4
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby BisonHurdler » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:50 am

mojo wrote:Saw on CNN that the coach who witnessed the rape and did nothing will be coaching this weekend's game and has not resigned nor been asked to thus far. WTF?


Correct, and this makes it quite clear that the board of trustee's decision last night had less to do with cleaning up the program and much more to do with PR damage control.

For those keeping score at home, the guy who saw Sandusky raping a 10 year old boy and failed to report it to the police still has his job. The guy who only heard about his friend's awful shower activities from a second hand source - but reported it to the head of the university police department nonetheless - was immediately terminated.
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