Penn State/State Pen [split]


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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:52 am

jazzcyclist wrote:With help from Conrad Murray?

Another sad case with no winners. I'm guessing MJ specifically asked for it, and the Dr. had warned him of the risks. Maybe not . . . :(
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby odelltrclan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:27 am

It almost angers me to hear on talk radio how many people are out to crucify almost everyone who they view as having some association with this situation. While I would never defend anything that happened (it is beyond appalling), we have only heard a miniscule amount of the facts that ultimately will surface and yet so many of us have already tried and convicted so many of these people and know very little about what really happened. Some of these people should be given a little leniency (we should withhold judgment and not crucify them) until they have their chance to be heard.

I wonder how many of us would act if it was our best friend, a brother, or similar acquaintance. If we had approached them about it, and they lied, would we believe them? And if we did have suspicions would we all know have known the appropriate course of action to take? I believe that most people are probably correct in believing that more should have been done. Especially by those who said they witnessed something directly. But we know very little yet of what actually was done by many of the others of these people involved.

One thing is for sure, there are MANY victims. There is no doubt mistakes were made by those close to the situation. How many lives will be ruined over this whole affair. It is truly sad for so many. One sick bastard ruining the lives of so many people, not only those he directly victimized (allegedly) but how many countless people closely associated with him as well.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:51 am

odelltrclan wrote:If we had approached them about it, and they lied, would we believe them? And if we did have suspicions would we all know have known the appropriate course of action to take?

It's not a matter of Sandusky lying to those close to him and them believing him. Mike McQueary was an eye witness of one of his acts. The facts are not in dispute in this case.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:59 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:If we had approached them about it, and they lied, would we believe them? And if we did have suspicions would we all know have known the appropriate course of action to take?

It's not a matter of Sandusky lying to those close to him and them believing him. Mike McQueary was an eye witness of one of his acts. The facts are not in dispute in this case.


Correct! The facts are a eyewitness saw a former coach anally raping a ten year old and the collective response for those in power was to not allow this monster to bring his next victims to the college, in other words go rape them elsewhere, FACTS! :x
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:11 am

SQUACKEE wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:If we had approached them about it, and they lied, would we believe them? And if we did have suspicions would we all know have known the appropriate course of action to take?

It's not a matter of Sandusky lying to those close to him and them believing him. Mike McQueary was an eye witness of one of his acts. The facts are not in dispute in this case.


Correct! The facts are a eyewitness saw a former coach anally raping a ten year old and the collective response for those in power was to not allow this monster to bring his next victims to the college, in other words go rape them elsewhere, FACTS! :x

It's very similar to the response in Catholic Churches. Instead of calling the police, they would simply move the priest to another parish.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby odelltrclan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:14 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:If we had approached them about it, and they lied, would we believe them? And if we did have suspicions would we all know have known the appropriate course of action to take?

It's not a matter of Sandusky lying to those close to him and them believing him. Mike McQueary was an eye witness of one of his acts. The facts are not in dispute in this case.


Sure there are. You attribute facts that you now know to be common knowledge by everyone implicated, yet, unless you are McQueary or the janitor, it is all second or third hand knowledge. If Sandusky had a life-long friendship or acquaintance with you over that time you came to trust him you might be persuaded to believe is lie. What if he convinced you that nothing serious happened, and that it was a misunderstanding on McQueary's part. Do you believe him, or do you believe McQueary? Maybe in subsequent meetings questioning McQueary he backtracked on what he actually saw and created enough doubt in your mind to believe a Sandusky lie. Certainly errors were made in judgment by certain people, but I doubt it was intentional. They deserve to be heard before being crucified. There is a lot that may have happened that we don't know about. It is easy to play Monday morning quarterback with what we are hearing as facts now without knowing every meeting, every discussion between every party that took place, including discussions with those who reportedly were eyewitnesses with their superiors. None of us were privy to anything so how can we make absolute judgment on so many of the people being vilified?

The mere suggestion that you were part of the athletic program now and you are deemed guilty. Sandusky has not been a coach for Penn State since 1999. People who are associated with the football program now who have been with the University for half that time will now likely lose their jobs due to their association with the athletic department. They may have a difficult time getting work in the future because of the association and have zero culpability in any of this.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Daisy » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:15 am

jazzcyclist wrote:It's very similar to the response in Catholic Churches. Instead of calling the police, they would simply move the priest to another parish.

In both cases the response is almost inhuman. How power corrupts if you are not prepared to protect the most vulnerable.

odelltrclan wrote:People who are associated with the football program now who have been with the University for half that time will now likely lose their jobs due to their association with the athletic department.

Are you sure that is the case? Seems more likely that many will be climbing the ladder after the removal of a few at the top.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:29 am

David Zirin:

<<....This isn't about Sandusky. This is about a culture that says the football team must be defended at all costs: a culture where the sexual assault of a 10-year-old is reported to Paterno before the police....>>

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... z1dE5toTOz
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:39 am

odelltrclan wrote: Certainly errors were made in judgment by certain people, but I doubt it was intentional..


Using your arguement, how do you know any errors where made, we dont have all the facts yet and why do you doubt it was intentional? What leads you to think it wasn't intentional, what facts do you have?

I do believe one thing, when all the facts DO come out, those who should be punished will be and those who are innocent we not be punished. My sympathies and concern are for the 10 year old boys who were raped after the fact because people in the know did nothing.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby odelltrclan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:49 am

SQUACKEE wrote:
odelltrclan wrote: Certainly errors were made in judgment by certain people, but I doubt it was intentional..


Using your arguement, how do you know any errors where made, we dont have all the facts yet and why do you doubt it was intentional? What leads you to think it wasn't intentional, what facts do you have?

I do believe one thing, when all the facts DO come out, those who should be punished will be and those who are innocent we not be punished. My sympathies and concern are for the 10 year old boys who were raped after the fact because people in the know did nothing.


Read the entire posts and you will have find you have answered your own question. My point was we should refrain from judging all involved until all the facts do come out and that there may be people being unfairly being judged. As I said, some of the things that I have heard from people on talk radio, or on message boards, or the like indicates many have already tried, convicted and sentenced certain people that may not be so culpable as we are led to believe.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:53 am

odelltrclan wrote:Sure there are. You attribute facts that you now know to be common knowledge by everyone implicated, yet, unless you are McQueary or the janitor, it is all second or third hand knowledge....


While this is 'third person' it is direct from the grand jury and they had it directly from the witnesses. Since lying to the grand jury is a rather serious offense (ask the two administrators) one would not expect the grad assistant to be making up things that make it more severe, although I can see him having incentives to shade down the truth.

What do you expect anyone on this message board to have, first-person knowledge?

The grand jury report essentially starts with statements that the testimony of the two administrators was not credible. I suspect that they did not know that there was as much material in the same vein that makes their testimony look a lot less like "he said, she said" than A through G say the same thing about independent events and say it independently, with little or no knowledge that there would be testimony by a number of other parties (except that the administrators almost certainly knew that they both would be testifying, so correlation between the two means little in terms of verification).

Also, while I have not heard an updated tally the number has more than doubled (at least nine more individuals have contacted the police on the special numbers set up for that purpose.

Finally, the actions and inaction of the PSU group is in stark contrast to the high school, where one of the students was troubled, talked to his principal and within an hour the principal had called the mom in and had contacted the police. I also find it damning that the VP was in charge of the campus police.

Yes, there are probably 'relatively benign' explanations but my assessment of them being the true story requires a lot of places to the right of the decimal.

As for waiting for all the facts to come out, that is hogwash for some of the actions to take. Do you think we should wait another year or two for 'all the facts to come out' before the school does anything? Do you think that people should not form opinions and voice them from material like grand jury reports and subsequent facts (e.g., at least nine more reported cases as of last night) that are much more consistent with the damning interpretations?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:07 am

odelltrclan wrote:Sure there are. You attribute facts that you now know to be common knowledge by everyone implicated, yet, unless you are McQueary or the janitor, it is all second or third hand knowledge. If Sandusky had a life-long friendship or acquaintance with you over that time you came to trust him you might be persuaded to believe is lie. What if he convinced you that nothing serious happened, and that it was a misunderstanding on McQueary's part. Do you believe him, or do you believe McQueary? Maybe in subsequent meetings questioning McQueary he backtracked on what he actually saw and created enough doubt in your mind to believe a Sandusky lie. Certainly errors were made in judgment by certain people, but I doubt it was intentional. They deserve to be heard before being crucified. There is a lot that may have happened that we don't know about. It is easy to play Monday morning quarterback with what we are hearing as facts now without knowing every meeting, every discussion between every party that took place, including discussions with those who reportedly were eyewitnesses with their superiors. None of us were privy to anything so how can we make absolute judgment on so many of the people being vilified?

Come on man, you're being ridiculous. The transcript of the grand jury testimony has been made public. Based on Paterno's sworn testimony, McQueary told Paterno what he saw and Paterno BELIEVED him. That is a fact. Here are two more facts from the grand jury report:

    May 1999: Sandusky abruptly retires after Paterno tells him that he won't succeed him as head coach
    Spring 2002: Sandusky's keys to the Penn State locker are taken away.
Why are you entertaining all these ridiculous far-fetched theories such as Paterno didn't know what Sandusky was up to?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:14 am

I just want to add that other then murder, raping children may be the worse crime on Earth, this is very very serious stuff and the people with knowledge and power should have done a lot, lot more.

If Mcquerry had seen a murder and didnt call the police, wouldnt you find that rather odd?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby odelltrclan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:24 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Come on man, you're being ridiculous. The transcript of the grand jury testimony has been made public. Based on Paterno's sworn testimony, McQueary told Paterno what he saw and Paterno BELIEVED him. That is a fact. Here are two more facts from the grand jury report:

    May 1999: Sandusky abruptly retires after Paterno tells him that he won't succeed him as head coach
    Spring 2002: Sandusky's keys to the Penn State locker are taken away.
Why are you entertaining all these ridiculous far-fetched theories such as Paterno didn't know what Sandusky was up to?


You assume based on information now that Paterno knew everything that Sandusky was "up to". That is the whole point. You are Monday morning QBing based on information you know now. How the hell do you know? You don't!!! This guy has not been a coach since 1999 nor had access to 2002 and you assume Paterno knew all that was going on. I think that is insane to pass judgment like that on him. You were not privy to any meeting or conversations between McQueary or Paterno or Paterno and the President and therefore don't know if all McQueary told Paterno at that time. Could he have made conflicting statements? Paterno deserves his chance to be heard while many it appears have already tried and convicted him as being virtually just as guilty as Sandusky which is totally ludicrous.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby odelltrclan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:51 am

SQUACKEE wrote:I just want to add that other then murder, raping children may be the worse crime on Earth, this is very very serious stuff and the people with knowledge and power should have done a lot, lot more.

If Mcquerry had seen a murder and didnt call the police, wouldnt you find that rather odd?


Absolutely it was odd! If I had seen what he is now telling the grand jury, I would question why the hell did he not intervene and stop whatever Sandusky was up to. Even if he did not do that he should have gone to police IF what he is now saying is true.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:55 am

odelltrclan wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Come on man, you're being ridiculous. The transcript of the grand jury testimony has been made public. Based on Paterno's sworn testimony, McQueary told Paterno what he saw and Paterno BELIEVED him. That is a fact. Here are two more facts from the grand jury report:

    May 1999: Sandusky abruptly retires after Paterno tells him that he won't succeed him as head coach
    Spring 2002: Sandusky's keys to the Penn State locker are taken away.
Why are you entertaining all these ridiculous far-fetched theories such as Paterno didn't know what Sandusky was up to?


You assume based on information now that Paterno knew everything that Sandusky was "up to". That is the whole point. You are Monday morning QBing based on information you know now. How the hell do you know? You don't!!! This guy has not been a coach since 1999 nor had access to 2002 and you assume Paterno knew all that was going on. I think that is insane to pass judgment like that on him. You were not privy to any meeting or conversations between McQueary or Paterno or Paterno and the President and therefore don't know if all McQueary told Paterno at that time. Could he have made conflicting statements? Paterno deserves his chance to be heard while many it appears have already tried and convicted him as being virtually just as guilty as Sandusky which is totally ludicrous.


odelltrclan, I appreciate you not wanting to rush to judgement, I really do. BUT-McQueary first told his daddy about the sexual attack, then the next morning he was to tell the next and LAST person about what he saw. He was never going to go the police or anyone else, this was his big moment to tell what happen. Paterno basically says he didnt get the whole story. How do you sugar coat the fact that you just saw Paterno's x-coach, butt fucking a 10 year old, how?!
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:08 am

odelltrclan wrote:You assume based on information now that Paterno knew everything that Sandusky was "up to". That is the whole point. You are Monday morning QBing based on information you know now. How the hell do you know? You don't!!! This guy has not been a coach since 1999 nor had access to 2002 and you assume Paterno knew all that was going on. I think that is insane to pass judgment like that on him. You were not privy to any meeting or conversations between McQueary or Paterno or Paterno and the President and therefore don't know if all McQueary told Paterno at that time. Could he have made conflicting statements? Paterno deserves his chance to be heard while many it appears have already tried and convicted him as being virtually just as guilty as Sandusky which is totally ludicrous.

I know what the grand jury testimony says and that's all I need to know. There's no conflict in the testimony, Paterno corroborated McQueary's testimony. I accept the grand jury testimony as incontrovertable fact. Evidently you see the grand jury testimony as idle speculation and conjecture. To each his own. :(
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby odelltrclan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:08 am

SQUACKEE wrote:odelltrclan, I appreciate you not wanting to rush to judgement, I really do. BUT-McQueary first told his daddy about the sexual attack, then the next morning he was to tell the next and LAST person about what he saw. He was never going to go the police or anyone else, this was his big moment to tell what happen. Paterno basically says he didnt get the whole story. How do you sugar coat the fact that you just saw Paterno's x-coach, butt fucking a 10 year old, how?!


I am with you on this. If what McQueary is saying now to the grand jury is true, then shame on him! Shame on him for first, not jumping in their and stopping Sandusky in the first place. Secondly, shame on him for not going to the police (why cry to daddy?) Thirdly, shame on him for waiting this long.

But we don't know what he told Paterno, what he told the president, or anyone else involved. I am sure there were multiple conversations. If all the truth comes out that he laid it all out to them and they tried to cover it up, then shame on all of them. But I am not going to convict Paterno now, like many are doing, because of what McQueary is saying now without knowing everything else we don't know. I don't think Paterno would be complicit in covering up anything with a former coach 3 years after he left the university. What benefit would be derived. There is part of the story we are missing and he deserves his chance to clear the air. That is all I am saying.

I am also saying that people are going to have their lives ruined that had little, if any, knowledge of what was going on, and that is tragic. It seems like it is tragic for anyone who had any relationship with this sick bastard Sandusky.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:15 am

On the front page of today's NYTimes.

'Mr. Paterno’s day-to-day status with the program could be affected by the state attorney general’s investigation into the sexual abuse allegations. In explaining his actions, Mr. Paterno has publicly said he was not told of the graphic nature of a suspected 2002 assault by Jerry Sandusky, a former assistant, of a young boy in the football building’s showers. Mr. Paterno said the graduate assistant who reported the assault, Mike McQueary, said only that something disturbing had happened that was perhaps sexual in nature.

But on Tuesday, a person with knowledge of Mr. McQueary’s version of events called Mr. Paterno’s claim into question. The person said Mr. McQueary had told those in authority the explicit details of what he saw, including in his face-to-face meeting with Mr. Paterno the day after the incident.'

I wouldn't bet on Paterno being around long. And rightfully so.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sport ... -exit.html
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:21 am

Even Paterno's vague language is graphic enough for me.
Specifically, Paterno testified under oath that McQueary had said that Sandusky was engaged in fondling or "doing something of a sexual nature" to a boy.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z1dEY3KR9y
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby odelltrclan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:21 am

jazzcyclist wrote:I know what the grand jury testimony says and that's all I need to know. There's no conflict in the testimony, Paterno corroborated McQueary's testimony. I accept the grand jury testimony as incontrovertable fact. Evidently you see the grand jury testimony as idle speculation and conjecture. To each his own. :(


Yes, and I once personally knew a woman who claimed to have been raped by a man. He was convicted and sentenced to many years in prison. Shortly after I met and had interactions with this woman she recanted her testimony and claimed he didn't rape her. She wanted to set things right. No one believed her now. She fought for years to get him removed. They said there was plenty of evidence he was the one regardless if she changed her story and questioned her motives. Finally, after many more years and the advent of DNA testing, they realized he was not guilty and he was finally freed after spending many years in jail. His life completely ruined and he has been unable to every fully recover.

All you need to know is the little bits of information you have heard in the grand jury without having the slightest clue what went on behind closed doors behind Paterno and McQueary but seem to be so ready to convict based on your emotional response and limited information. Fortunately we have a legal system that allows people their day in court, or the court of public opinion would already have crucified certain individuals that MAY not be so culpable as you and the altruistic media make them out to be.

I am done with this.
Last edited by odelltrclan on Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:24 am

As malmo said on LetsRun (malmo being a PSU alum and one-time AR in SC and 15k), Paterno is the authority at Penn State. The guys he told were his nominal superiors but it was going to be handled like Paterno wanted it handled.

Sandusky was a good friend of Paterno's, according to multiple people (including, I think, malmo). So several pieces stick out. Why was the direction of Linebacker U changed from his buddy, the main guy behind Linebacker U, and the subsequent resignation. The prior reported incident was 1998, so temporally, there could be a sequence that matches knowledge that Paterno, I think, has denied having about that prior incident. Another possibility is that Sandusky took himself out of the running because he knew it likely that if he became head coach prior acts would be more likely to be reported and investigated. And/or he wanted more to continue his 'lifestyle' and would not be able to do so as head coach at PSU.

Second, the guy who reported the incident to Paterno went from being a Graduate Assistant to being an Assistant Coach (with what salary). Is this part of a deal to be quite that became partially undone when the grand jury subpenaed him and even at this point apparently keeping to a story of not telling Paterno the whole details.

[I kept on being 'jumped in posting, so I am going to leave as is even though there are later posts by, e.g., odelltrclan]
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:34 am

jazzcyclist wrote:......
I know what the grand jury testimony says and that's all I need to know. ....(


Wow! I certainly hope you're never on a jury when I'm the defendant!
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:42 am

Conor Dary wrote:On the front page of today's NYTimes.
"Mr. Paterno has publicly said he was not told of the graphic nature of a suspected 2002 assault by Jerry Sandusky, a former assistant, of a young boy in the football building’s showers. Mr. Paterno said the graduate assistant who reported the assault, Mike McQueary, said only that something disturbing had happened that was perhaps sexual in nature.

This is extremely damning.

Q: Who does not demand a full accounting?

A: Someone who wants plausible deniability
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:52 am

Marlow wrote:

Q: Who does not demand a full accounting?

A: Someone who wants plausible deniability


EXCELLENT POINT !!! If he didnt ask for details it was only because he didnt want to know.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:56 am

odelltrclan wrote:Yes, and I once personally knew a woman who claimed to have been raped by a man. He was convicted and sentenced to many years in prison. Shortly after I met and had interactions with this woman she recanted her testimony and claimed he didn't rape her. She wanted to set things right. No one believed her now. She fought for years to get him removed. They said there was plenty of evidence he was the one regardless if she changed her story and questioned her motives. Finally, after many more years and the advent of DNA testing, they realized he was not guilty and he was finally freed after spending many years in jail. His life completely ruined and he has been unable to every fully recover.

All you need to know is the little bits of information you have heard in the grand jury without having the slightest clue what went on behind closed doors behind Paterno and McQueary but seem to be so ready to convict based on your emotional response and limited information. Fortunately we have a legal system that allows people their day in court, or the court of public opinion would already have crucified certain individuals that MAY not be so culpable as you and the altruistic media make them out to be.

I am done with this.

1) Your story contradicts your own logic since the man was convicted.
2) This isn't a he said-she said story where you have Sandusky's word against the victim's word. McQueary was a third party to the incident without an ax to grind.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby odelltrclan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:27 am

jazzcyclist wrote:1) Your story contradicts your own logic since the man was convicted.
2) This isn't a he said-she said story where you have Sandusky's word against the victim's word. McQueary was a third party to the incident without an ax to grind.


Jazz, you seem to be entirely unable to grasp the points that I have made. It almost reminds me of when Hollywood Henderson, in speaking of Terry Bradshaw, said that he could not spell Cat if someone spotted him the C and the A.

Let me clarify in the simplest terms what I have said on this thread.

1. Penn State will be forced to clean house to save face and Paterno would be gone.

2. Sandusky's actions were and are appalling.

3. McQueary's actions are deplorable as well for failing to stop what was going on when he had a chance and in failing to do more in the aftermath.

4. We might want to reserve harsh judgment on "others involved", including but not limited to Joe Paterno, because we cannot possibly know everything they knew or things that happened that led to the decisions they made.

5. If these others, including Paterno were culpable, they deserve any punishment they get, but I feel a little bit of sympathy for them because it might have been hard to have walked in their shoes with a close friend. Perhaps errors were made in their judgment, but that happens to all of us, but the even if they did make a conscientious decision (in poor judgment) about the wrong course of action it is very likely they may not have had the slightest clue at how pervasive the problem was.

6. If in fact all is true (the others) they deserve their day to be heard before being crucified.

7. Anyone associated with Sandusky appears to or will have lifelong lasting negative consequences. There were MANY victims besides those unfortunate kids who were sexually assaulted.

The point of the story did not contradict itself as someone was convicted on false information that later turned out to be false, hence, all the information you attribute as fact to Paterno may not be true.

Most of the comments I have stated have nothing to do with McQueary being innocent in any way but have to do with the others being implicated by association.

You don't need to reply as I don't want to be tempted to respond again so I will refrain from reading the T&FN site for at least a few days.
Last edited by odelltrclan on Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:46 am

Like I said before I appreicate odelltrclan's atempt to be reasonable and careful in this matter.

I am not a judge or jury but where there is smoke there is fire and this whole thing stinks to high heaven. I dont think Paterno is a criminal, but he as one thing in common with everyone who knew about this rape......they all in effect did NOTHING! NOTHING!
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:26 pm

As much as I 'feel' for JoePa here, I'm hoping he is made to step down just so it's crystal clear to everyone what the consequences are for even a 'latent' cover-up, i.e., failing to push the incident to a full accounting and full justice for the victims (including the impossibility of it recurring).
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Dutra » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:21 pm

I agree with odell that there should be some stepping back and gathering of the facts prior to hanging everyone potentially involved. I do believe that the claims, many of which seem to have a ton of credence, are enough to make the best course of action be having either PSU or the NCAA step in and remove Paterno and possibly the School President from day to day activities even if only temporarily. This could work out to the school's benefit since, unless they plan on hiding JoePa through a potential bowl game two months from now, the risk of having him say something incriminating is pretty great at his advanced and non cognitive age.

My gut feeling is that this may go way beyond the scope of one man. I hope I'm wrong in this particular conjecture but I don't like the particulars of a charity set up to help troubled boys by a serial child rapist....allegedly. This has a lot of markings of a NAMBLA scenario.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jeremyp » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:22 pm

What never ceases to amaze me is how organizations with lawyers don't cotton to the fact that somebody always talks. The crap they have now is 100x the crap they would have had if they had been open back then. I think the Catholic Church found this out way down the road as well.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Pego » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:57 pm

FWIW, I agree with odelltrclan. It would not be the first time, good people get dragged down by not dealing with criminality of others forcefully enough. By allowing Sandusky to avoid justice, they do deserve what they get.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:07 pm

JoePa just announced his retirement for after this season. Good idea.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-573 ... e-tragedy/
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:12 pm

Marlow wrote:JoePa just announced his retirement for after this season. Good idea.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-573 ... e-tragedy/



Not enough. He needs to go immediately. Too bad he doesn't realize it, because I suspect the Board will do it for him.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:25 pm

odelltrclan wrote:It almost reminds me of when Hollywood Henderson, in speaking of Terry Bradshaw, said that he could not spell Cat if someone spotted him the C and the A.

I'm not going to get into a silly, juvenile pissing contest with you. If you want to play those kind of junior high school games, you'll have to find someone else to play with. I thought you were better than that. :evil:
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Dutra » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:45 pm

guru wrote:
Marlow wrote:JoePa just announced his retirement for after this season. Good idea.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-573 ... e-tragedy/



Not enough. He needs to go immediately. Too bad he doesn't realize it, because I suspect the Board will do it for him.


The Governor is supposedly attending the board meeting either this evening or tomorrow or both. My guess is that he's not coming in to leave the status quo only to have a few facts change within a few days and then needing to revisit the situation.

There are also rumblings I've heard on the radio regarding the FBI being involved. As I mentioned earlier....keep an eye on that charity Sandusky set up for troubled boys. I just get a bad feeling about that.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby mojo » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:56 pm

guru wrote:
Marlow wrote:JoePa just announced his retirement for after this season. Good idea.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-573 ... e-tragedy/



Not enough. He needs to go immediately. Too bad he doesn't realize it, because I suspect the Board will do it for him.



Agreed guru. Gone. NOW. And the president and anyone else who knew of this to any degree.

Not one of these people put the children first. You see a man raping a young boy and walk away? Is that not aiding and abetting a serious crime? I can not get past that. How abandoned that poor little guy must have felt.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:06 pm

Dutra wrote:
There are also rumblings I've heard on the radio regarding the FBI being involved. As I mentioned earlier....keep an eye on that charity Sandusky set up for troubled boys. I just get a bad feeling about that.



By not reporting the crime(s), Penn State violated the federal Clery Act


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clery_Act

The Clery Act requires all colleges and universities that participate in federal financial aid programs to keep and disclose information about crime on and near their respective campuses. Compliance is monitored by the United States Department of Education, which can impose civil penalties, up to $27,500 per violation, against institutions for each infraction and can suspend institutions from participating in federal student financial aid programs.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby dukehjsteve » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:21 pm

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at that Board meeting tonight, with the Governor there. I suspect the Guv will have some very frank suggestions as to the actions they should take before sunrise.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Cooter Brown » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:30 pm

On ESPN, former PSU All-American LB Michael Haynes just said that this has been well known in the community for years, and many had told him about it including his mom (who still works at PSU), former players, and teammates. He said people were too scared to get in trouble if they spoke out.

I don't know if you can sue a university into bankruptcy and closure but we're about to find out.
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