Penn State/State Pen [split]


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Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:29 am

Meanwhile, not looking so good for Penn State...pretty horrible stuff...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co ... 3686.story
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Re: 2011 College Football

Postby Marlow » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:19 am

Conor Dary wrote:Meanwhile, not looking so good for Penn State...pretty horrible stuff...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co ... 3686.story

When are authority figures going to realize that ratting out subordinates is a GOOD thing when the subordinates are rats already?
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Re: 2011 College Football

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:06 am

On the Penn State stuff and JoePa, it was my impression that long-time Penn State track/XC coach Harry Groves was not a big fan of his fellow coach. I suspect one-time T&FNews poster malmo and Penn State alum would know a lot more about this (the Harry Groves opinion).

I think it makes it more likely that Penn State concludes the JoePa era soon, and I have not been impressed with the tenor of the head guy (Spanier, or is JoePa the head guy?

[Earlier, Penn State President Graham Spanier said Curley and Schultz have his "unconditional support."

"I have complete confidence in how they have handled the allegations about a former university employee," he said, adding that the charges are "groundless.").
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Re: 2011 College Football

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:36 am

26mi235 wrote:On the Penn State stuff and JoePa, it was my impression that long-time Penn State track/XC coach Harry Groves was not a big fan of his fellow coach. I suspect one-time T&FNews poster malmo and Penn State alum would know a lot more about this (the Harry Groves opinion).

I think it makes it more likely that Penn State concludes the JoePa era soon, and I have not been impressed with the tenor of the head guy (Spanier, or is JoePa the head guy?

[Earlier, Penn State President Graham Spanier said Curley and Schultz have his "unconditional support."

"I have complete confidence in how they have handled the allegations about a former university employee," he said, adding that the charges are "groundless.").


Yea, of course...with stuff that makes the Ohio State controversy look like nothing at all...


"In the fall of 2000, according to prosecutors, a janitor found Sandusky in the showers of the football building performing oral sex on a young boy pinned against a wall. The janitor, distraught, told a fellow employee that he had seen people killed in the Korean War, but that he had just seen something he would never forget. The employee thought the janitor was at risk of a heart attack.

In the end, no report was made, not by the janitor or the fellow employee he had told, both of whom, according to prosecutors, worried about their job security. And not by the janitor’s supervisor, who also had been informed."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/sport ... nted=print
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Re: 2011 College Football

Postby Marlow » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:17 am

Conor Dary wrote:In the end, no report was made, not by the janitor or the fellow employee he had told, both of whom, according to prosecutors, worried about their job security. And not by the janitor’s supervisor, who also had been informed."

The whole Snitch proscription totally escapes me. It's actually seen as a code of honor violation in some places. :(
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Re: 2011 College Football

Postby lonewolf » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:46 pm

I think the technical name for this is "cover up".
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Re: 2011 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:05 pm

Conor Dary wrote:The janitor, distraught, told a fellow employee that he had seen people killed in the Korean War, but that he had just seen something he would never forget. The employee thought the janitor was at risk of a heart attack.

In the end, no report was made, not by the janitor or the fellow employee he had told, both of whom, according to prosecutors, worried about their job security. And not by the janitor’s supervisor, who also had been informed."

What I don't understand is how could someone who sees something that horrific just sit on it. How could he even sleep at night? Wouldn't peace of mind compel most folks to come forward even if their sense or justice didn't?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:54 pm

The grand jury report does not make for easy reading

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploaded ... ntment.pdf


Paterno lost me when he says the then-grad assistant(now full assistant coach) did not tell him any details of what he witnessed Sandusky doing to the kid in that shower. Bullshit.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby dukehjsteve » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:17 pm

From top ( Prez, AD, Paterno) to bottom this thing stinks to high heaven.... looks like the cover up to end all cover ups. Many, many heads to roll here, from top to bottom.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:28 pm

I find that I am interested in what people here have to say on this topic.

I am pretty sure this would have played out a bit differently in Madison, but I could be wrong.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Bijan » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:03 pm

Not good Joe Pa:

"...According to the indictment, in 2002 assistant coach Mike McQueary, then a Penn State graduate assistant, walked in on Sandusky having anal intercourse with a ten-year-old boy. The next day, he reported the incident to Paterno, who informed Curley. Ultimately, the only action Curley and Schultz took was to order Sandusky not to bring any children from Second Mile to the football building, an action that was approved by school president Graham Spanier. The indictment accused Curley and Schultz of not only failing to tell the police, but falsely telling the grand jury that the graduate assistant never informed them of sexual activity..."

Sandusky's memoir has the unfortunate title: "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story" (published 2001)
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:18 pm

26mi235 wrote:I find that I am interested in what people here have to say on this topic.

I am pretty sure this would have played out a bit differently in Madison, but I could be wrong.

I think that even if he doesn't get indicted, this will leave a black mark on Paterno's legacy.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:32 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:I think that even if he doesn't get indicted, this will leave a black mark on Paterno's legacy.




Paterno's going to have a problem if that grad assistant witness testified that he told Paterno in detail what he saw.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:34 pm

Bijan wrote:Not good Joe Pa: . . . he reported the incident to Paterno

Say it ain't so, Joe. He had to have known. If he did NOT know, that's a red flag right there - that he doesn't have control over his own program. :(
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:37 pm

Marlow wrote:
Bijan wrote:Not good Joe Pa: . . . he reported the incident to Paterno

Say it ain't so, Joe. He had to have known. If he did NOT know, that's a red flag right there - that he doesn't have control over his own program. :(



He knew, and he reported it to the AD, who along with his superior buried it. Even the prosecutor says Paterno did what he was supposed to. But of course people expected more from him, because of who he is.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Cooter Brown » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:43 pm

What's most disturbing is the grad assistant that walks away from seeing the coach ass rape a 10 year old. WTF? How don't you intervene? As of today, no one knows what happened to that kid. Sandusky could've have killed him to cover his tracks. The GA probably sold his soul for a lifetime coaching gig as part of the cover up.

Pedophile State University. The heckling at their next game will be glorious.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:22 pm

Cooter Brown wrote:The heckling at their next game will be glorious.

Perhaps at their next AWAY game, but not in Happy Valley, where JoePa is as beloved as Bobby Bowden was at Doak.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:30 pm

The then-grad assistant who stumbled upon Sandusky and the boy. Now wide receivers coach, and notably, recruiting coordinator.

http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-foo ... ike00.html


Speaking of recruiting, top recruit Noah Spence, a DE that is #4 overall in this years class, looks to be backing out.

https://twitter.com/#!/nspence94/status ... 1136199680

Um psu might be a no no for me ewwww
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:05 am

This morning I heard that over 100 non-sports news reporters are expected at Joe Paterno's weekly press conference today. When you're a sports figure and CNN, ABC, NBC and CBS start leading off their broadcasts with stories about you, you've got problems.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:17 am

jazzcyclist wrote:This morning I heard that over 100 non-sports news reporters are expected at Joe Paterno's weekly press conference today.



Penn State has made it clear - only football questions at the presser. We'll see how THAT works out...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/08/fa ... onference/
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:16 am

guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:This morning I heard that over 100 non-sports news reporters are expected at Joe Paterno's weekly press conference today.



Penn State has made it clear - only football questions at the presser. We'll see how THAT works out...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/08/fa ... onference/

If they think the jackals will go away before they get their raw meat, they are sadly mistaken. If Penn State wants to get this story off the front page of USA Today, they will eventually have to feed the jackals. Yesterday, Joe Frazier died, Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted and Herman Cain's campaign took its biggest sexual harassment hit yet, but the Penn State scandal trumped all those stories on the front page of some of the nation's most respected and widely read newspapers.

http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages ... ef_pge=lst
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby lonewolf » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:58 am

This is ridiculous . No one with any knowledge of this incident should be allowed to pass the buck, especially Joe Paterno. If they reported it to their boss and saw nothing happening, they should report it to the bosses' boss or police.
If they get fired, sue the university, collect and retire.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:06 am

lonewolf wrote:This is ridiculous . No one with any knowledge of this incident should be allowed to pass the buck, especially Joe Paterno. If they reported it to their boss and saw nothing happening, they should report it to the bosses' boss or police.
If they get fired, sue the university, collect and retire.

Amen! Paterno is bigger than anybody on that campus, including the President. We found this out a couple of years ago when some prominent boosters tried to put Paterno out to the pasture after a few losing seasons. Not only did he survive the coup attempt, but a couple of board members were replaced as a result of the failed coup.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:25 am

15/20-odd years ago Paterno made some dogmatic comments about something about collegiate athletics which to me seemed to indicate a complete disconnect from the reality of how things have long worked.

A professional acquaintance familiar with the program said that Paterno (not necessarily to keep himself clear of any scandal; just because he wasn't really interested in anything but X's and O's) had erected a huge firewall which kept him from having to handle the seamy side of NCAA football. His assistants did all that stuff and he was happy not to know/worry about it.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:30 am

gh wrote:he was happy not to know/worry about it.

What you don't know CAN hurt you, Joe. If he knew and survives this (I'm rooting for him, cuz he is 'nice guy'), it's a set-back for those of us who think the buck stops at the top (if you DID know something). From my experience, the Captain DOES go down with the ship, and the USS PennSt just took a direct hit amidships, right at the waterline.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gm » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:56 am

Marlow wrote:I'm rooting for him, cuz he is 'nice guy'


And you know this how?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:01 am

Penn State has canceled Paterno's weekly press conference.

Penn State's president abruptly canceled Joe Paterno's weekly news conference Tuesday amid increasing calls for both men to resign in the wake of a former assistant coach's sex-abuse scandal and as another potential victim came forward.

The New York Times reported that Penn State's board of trustees has had discussions about the 84-year-old Paterno's departure and how to manage it. The newspaper, citing "two people briefed on conversations among the university's top officials," said that Paterno's exit could come within days or weeks.


http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... conference
Last edited by jazzcyclist on Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:14 am

and:

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Joe Paterno’s tenure as coach of the Penn State football team will soon be over, perhaps within days or weeks, in the wake of a sex-abuse scandal that has implicated university officials, according to two people briefed on conversations among the university’s top officials.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html

By the way, one obvious conspiracy theory is that the Grad Assistant that saw and reported the incident has become a permanent member of the staff as a reward for not go public at the time or later. I am NOT saying this is the case or even speculating, but the facts are consistent with that high-level observation. LeVar Arrington, a teammate of the then-QB of the team, expressed questions about the role of his former teammate.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:21 am

26mi235 wrote:and:

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Joe Paterno’s tenure as coach of the Penn State football team will soon be over, perhaps within days or weeks, in the wake of a sex-abuse scandal that has implicated university officials, according to two people briefed on conversations among the university’s top officials.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html

By the way, one obvious conspiracy theory is that the Grad Assistant that saw and reported the incident has become a permanent member of the staff as a reward for not go public at the time or later. I am NOT saying this is the case or even speculating, but the facts are consistent with that high-level observation. LeVar Arrington, a teammate of the then-QB of the team, expressed questions about the role of his former teammate.


I don't think there is any other course of action that Penn State can take but to remove Joe Pa and his staff. Anyone remotely involved or DEEMED to have had any chance of knowing has to be moved out and a fresh start taken again or they may lose all credibility with future recruits, etc. The fact that Joe Pa is near the end of the line anyway will simply make it easier to do.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:34 am

Paterno released a statement Sunday night saying the graduate assistant was distraught and did not describe the specific act mentioned in the grand jury presentment. Maybe Paterno didn't grasp the seriousness of the allegation. Maybe he didn't understand.


According to the grand jury presentment, Paterno testified that the graduate assistant reported seeing Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy." Those are the exact words from the presentment, but they are not an exact quote from Paterno. Grand jurors clearly came away thinking Paterno -- a man not known for mincing words -- had heard a report of sexual activity between a grown man and a young boy.


[url]Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z1d8kdHO9k[/url]

If someone is so distraught that that they cannot tell a full story, they have already told the story, you just did not listen and did not want to hear. He was not distraught because they were playing pattycake and it was past a 10-year old's bed time. Further, there were reports that Sandustky's car repeatedly cruised the parking lot slowly (either in the 2002 incident or one witnessed by a janitor).


Finally, Sandusky was originally thought of as his heir apparent but was released in 1999 without a lot of clear indication why. There was a 1998 incident and it is consistent with his being dropped because of that -- without doing anything to protect kids.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:40 am

gm wrote:
Marlow wrote:I'm rooting for him, cuz he is 'nice guy'

And you know this how?

A life-time of good-will. (of course many people said this about Sandusky too :( )
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby lonewolf » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:19 pm

I can smell the male bovine excrement from here. :x
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby no one » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:19 pm

If reports are accurate then Jo Pa status in this does not bode well for him ... although (sadly) he is to Penn St as Woody Hayes was to OS - granted, different personas. If that stuff was reported to anyone (such as Paterno) it is their obligation to find out EXACTLY ... EXACTLY what the witness saw; then call the police ASAP. Sounds to me that protection of position superceded what the right thing (to do) was. And how many? victims are being suspected. The ostrich approach is never the preferred - in matters of this magnitude. As I understand it, some states have laws that are as harsh for those that 'know about it' and don't report this to the police, as the perpetrator themselves. Its a sad day for this having happened - and even more sad (?) for those that failed in their watch.

Prison life will be extra uncomfortable, if it gets to that. Pedophiles earn the very lowest place in the economy of prison inmates. Very dangerous indeed.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:18 pm

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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby mojo » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:31 pm

Marlow wrote:
gm wrote:
Marlow wrote:I'm rooting for him, cuz he is 'nice guy'

And you know this how?

A life-time of good-will. (of course many people said this about Sandusky too :( )




Every single one of those people should at the very least lose their jobs, if not face criminal charges. To even have an inkling that children are being destroyed and not do anything is beyond my comprehension and is no way what nice guys do!

I am with cooter-how do you see a child being raped and not leap in? I am a 5'6 woman and I think I could kill him with my bare hands. How do you turn your back on innocent children and sleep at night?


My thoughts are with the victims.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby polevaultpower » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:36 pm

What a horrible story :(
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:36 pm

mojo wrote:Every single one of those people should at the very least lose their jobs, if not face criminal charges. To even have an inkling that children are being destroyed and not do anything is beyond my comprehension and is no way what nice guys do!

I am with cooter-how do you see a child being raped and not leap in? I am a 5'6 woman and I think I could kill him with my bare hands. How do you turn your back on innocent children and sleep at night?


My thoughts are with the victims.

I think all of us would like to think that we would reach for the nearest blunt object and go upside the head of the molester, but none of us know for sure how we would react at that instant. Supposedly, the janitor who saw him performing oral sex on a young boy was so horrified and distraught that the first guy he saw thought he was having a heart attack. However, even if you freeze up initially and are unable to react heroically, by the next morning after a night of sleep any person should be able to compose him/herself and that's when you find out what you're made of. I'm guessing what made this so difficult for Paterno and the rest of the folks involved is that they were all close to Sandusky. I don't think that most people would react the same way to finding out that our best friend, uncle or son was a molester as we would react to finding out that a complete stranger was molester. It doesn't take much character to be tough with a complete stranger, but condemning your best friend to life in prison and eternal ostracization from all his family and friends isn't something most of us would take lightly.

"It is hard to stand up: our ethical Occam's Razor need cut no closer than that. How many of us have kept in our seats when the path of right lay up the hill, so clear but so difficult, before us?" - Jack Beatty

But what I don't understand is why the charges were dropped on Sandusky after an earlier investigation in 1998. That whole thing is very mysterious.
The mother of one of the alleged victims said that Sandusky personally admitted to inappropriately touching her son while showering with him on campus in 1998. However, Ray Gricar, then Attorney General of Centre County later declined to press charges. Ray Gricar disappeared under mysterious circumstances in April 2005, and his computer and mangled hard drive were later found in a lake.

Then there's this disturbing part of Sandusky's bio:
Sandusky is married and has six adopted children. He also took in foster children.

:? :shock: :x
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:44 pm

An extraordinary scene at Paterno's house this evening(includes video)

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/col ... 03623.html
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:52 am

jazzcyclist wrote:However, even if you freeze up initially and are unable to react heroically, by the next morning after a night of sleep any person should be able to compose him/herself and that's when you find out what you're made of.

How does one get a night of sleep after seeing that?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:29 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:However, even if you freeze up initially and are unable to react heroically, by the next morning after a night of sleep any person should be able to compose him/herself and that's when you find out what you're made of.

How does one get a night of sleep after seeing that?

With help from Conrad Murray?
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