UK's Beijing medal hopes •


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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby Daisy » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:38 am

72 wrote:Well in Berlin, we got 81 points and 20 top eights; we got 70 points and a mere 12 top 8s in Daegu(less than Osaka).Our points total was down on Berlin 2009.

Any idea what the stats were for 1993?
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby 72 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:34 pm

just counted a quick 18 top eights in Stuttgart1993 and more points than Daegu but 3 golds and two World Records ; not too bad.

One thing you wont see again, British athletes with 2 WRs in a WC/OG
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby mump boy » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:09 pm

72 wrote:just counted a quick 18 top eights in Stuttgart1993 and more points than Daegu but 3 golds and two World Records ; not too bad.

One thing you wont see again, British athletes with 2 WRs in a WC/OG


Don't you just love to revel in your own percieved failures. You could also say 7 medals 2 gold 4 silver 1 bronze best champs since 93 or even better 2nd best world champs ever

you love to compare todays athletes to those of the past so how about 95 when we only won 1 medal in a male track event in fact only 4 athletes got medals at all (kelly got 2) and only 1 gold.

How about 97 when our only gold came in a relay (this doesn't count in your book) and we only got that 13 years later after US were DQ'd

2001 was a corker we got 2 medals

and 2003 3 medals no gold and 30th on the medal table

2005 Paula came to the rescue with an individual gold to go with our 2 relay bronzes

even if we go back to the 80's we didn't do any better

83 7 medals but worse colours than this time
87 8 medals but only 1 gold
91 7 medals and 2 gold but once again we did better this time

So apart from 93 this was our best medal total ever and things seem to be moving in the right direction

There is loads of great young talent coming through and some of our athletes now consistently deliver when it counts.

Of course it's not perfect, the lack of finalists is worrying and there are still too many people who perform badly at champs but this eutopia of athletics achievement that you are always harping on about No1 never existed and No2 even if it did, get over it an try taking a little bit of pleasure in what's on offer right now, instead of constant carping.

PS we did some AMAZING flag waving in Daegu you may have seen us on tv :wink:
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby John G » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:21 am

72 wrote:just counted a quick 18 top eights in Stuttgart1993 and more points than Daegu but 3 golds and two World Records ; not too bad.

One thing you wont see again, British athletes with 2 WRs in a WC/OG


72 - Like you, I see 12 top 8s as a real disappointment. Difference is you seem to be revelling in the disappointment. Time to find another sport? Or maybe I could just share my dvd archive of the good old days and you could lose yourself in reverie (no bad thing!!).

You remind me of my Dad, a member of BASC. I rang him after Mo's loss in the 10k. I said I hadn't been so disappointed by a sporting loss since Edwards in Atlanta. He professed he wasn't at all bothered and said in fact he hadn't been surprised or disappointed by any GB loss since Bedford in 72.

(Actually, he wasn't disappointed or surprised by Bedford losing - he laughed and told me that he was only 6th best in the world anyway, thus reducing me to tears (I was only 6, I hasten to add)). It took me years to forgive him and then he cheered when Coe beat Ovett in Moscow. Unforgiveable.

Maybe I should save this stuff for analysis.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby Rog » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:29 am

John G wrote:
72 wrote:just counted a quick 18 top eights in Stuttgart1993 and more points than Daegu but 3 golds and two World Records ; not too bad.

One thing you wont see again, British athletes with 2 WRs in a WC/OG


72 - Like you, I see 12 top 8s as a real disappointment. Difference is you seem to be revelling in the disappointment. Time to find another sport? Or maybe I could just share my dvd archive of the good old days and you could lose yourself in reverie (no bad thing!!).

You remind me of my Dad, a member of BASC. I rang him after Mo's loss in the 10k. I said I hadn't been so disappointed by a sporting loss since Edwards in Atlanta. He professed he wasn't at all bothered and said in fact he hadn't been surprised or disappointed by any GB loss since Bedford in 72.

(Actually, he wasn't disappointed or surprised by Bedford losing - he laughed and told me that he was only 6th best in the world anyway, thus reducing me to tears (I was only 6, I hasten to add)). It took me years to forgive him and then he cheered when Coe beat Ovett in Moscow. Unforgiveable.

Maybe I should save this stuff for analysis.


I'm betting he's had a field day over Paula Radcliffe.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby bushop » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:08 pm

Next Stop, London. All Change, Please.
Gwenda Ward on Sunday, September 11th, 2011
"We onlookers can only agree. This is certainly not the finished or even nearly finished product that we might have expected for our £11,000,000 per annum investment. Notwithstanding the national delight at the medals accrued by Mo’s maturity, Greene’s composure, Ennis’s courage, England’s joyful and elegant opportunism, Idowu’s solidity and Turner’s luck, there is much to be concerned about one year away from London."
Last edited by bushop on Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby az2004 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:42 am

is great britians decline in t&f, since the days of ovett, coe, and others, more becase kids primary sport is soccer,AND the pool of ELITE talent gets siphoned onto a direction where BIG mney is far easier to make??
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby 72 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:49 am

Revelling in British disappointments ... you are crazy :lol:

I just will not accept the bulls hit about the Golden era we are supposedly in or about to enter, or UKA and AW trying to convince me that all is well with British athletics ; it is NOT and attempts by various Flag wavers to spin the situation and to state otherwise are just smokescreen stuff, which goes down well with bureaucrats at UKA head office.
The current bunch of leaders in our sport are a hopeless group who love their financial packages but have achieved little better than was achieved for long periods before 1997 when they came into existence.

Mo Farah suceeded by his own dedication and Greene is not coached by some UKA creep even from abroad and neither is JE; no,no,no, the uncomfortable fact is that our male sprinters of reason times have mostly disappointed, our women sprinters are second rate; our male middle distance runners, traditonally fairly sound from periods before and after the WW2, are beyond comment; MO is out on his own; we haven't got even a reasonable Steepler;hammer, javelin, shot nowhere to be seen; our field events in the women are dreadful; long distance runners... Paula is not doing them now!!!

I do not revel in Brit disappointments... the Daegu results were nothing special, whether the FWers like the facts or not. Believe it or not, there are even a few ex- athletes, coaches and officials who agree that things aint so wonderful with our elite or alleged elite as the Cheerleaders here and elsewhere like to pretend.
49 athgletes on Podium potential funding( a frigging joke to plenty) and we got ten top Eights; nearly a third were injured , coming back from injured or not in form to even go to the WC.

We will soon be left with even poorer and less participatory club athletics, which everyone with their eyes open now knows continues apace, people like Tom McNab, formerly a Chief National Coach. UKA are only interested in a Medals which is sad obsession on this Forum and AW in the UK... good elitist stuff for some, but not me.

How much cash should the Tax payer be expected to lob out for half a dozen medals.??
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby bushop » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:37 pm

Cram Expects Success From GB Athletes at London 2012
02 October 2011
“I am very excited about next year,” he told the BBC. “GB will have eight to 10 good medal chances at the London 2012 Olympics and if they can convert six to eight of them, that will be great."... naming Hannah England, Lisa Dobriskey and Steph Twell as potential 1500m finalists and over course Mo Farah as a medalist.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby PCSExponent » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:44 pm

bushop wrote:naming Hannah England, Lisa Dobriskey and Steph Twell


I was ecstatic to read about Twell's return to competition, but let's wait a little with the prognostications, Crammy :shock:
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby John G » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:19 am

PCSExponent wrote:
bushop wrote:naming Hannah England, Lisa Dobriskey and Steph Twell


I was ecstatic to read about Twell's return to competition, but let's wait a little with the prognostications, Crammy :shock:


Just qualifying for our W1500 team will be tough enough. If Charlene Thomas finally gets a little luck I have a sneaky feeling she'll get a berth. I can certainly see her beating England and Dobriskey in the Trials (they'll be peaking for the Games, she'll be peaking for the Trials). Steph has the greatest potential and I'm pretty sure she would have run close to sub-4 this year had it not been for the injury. I also think she is a far better tactician than England or Dobriskey. Fingers crossed she makes a full recovery (I guess we'll have a better idea of the long term affect of the injury on her after a XC season). I wonder if that bad an ankle injury will affect her ability to sprint and we might see her move to 5000 earlier than expected (she'd have a better chance of getting into the team even now).

Also can't discount Weightman and Smith, who set PBs again this year and should be in 4:04 territory in 2012, if not faster.

The one they should all worry about is Jemma Simpson. If/when she moves up I think she'll be a regular member of the team (not least because so many of the Trials finals turn in 800 races.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby bushop » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:27 am

John G wrote:
bushop wrote:naming Hannah England, Lisa Dobriskey and Steph Twell
I can certainly see [Charlene Thomas] beating England and Dobriskey in the Trials (they'll be peaking for the Games, she'll be peaking for the Trials).
Will England and Dobriskey be pre-selected?
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby John G » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:03 am

bushop wrote:
John G wrote:
bushop wrote:naming Hannah England, Lisa Dobriskey and Steph Twell
I can certainly see [Charlene Thomas] beating England and Dobriskey in the Trials (they'll be peaking for the Games, she'll be peaking for the Trials).
Will England and Dobriskey be pre-selected?


There will be no pre-selections (the 2012 selection policy is already published on UKA's website).

Crucial bit:
The first two eligible athletes in the final of each discipline at the Trials will be automatically
nominated for that discipline provided that either
i) they have achieved a Current UKA “A” standard (as set out in point 9 below) in the discipline; or
ii) they placed in the top eight in the discipline at the 2011 Daegu World Championship and have achieved at least one valid UKA “A” standard in the discipline at any time within the
Qualification Period.

The A standard is only 4:06. You can imagine a scenario where England, Dobriskey, Thomas, Twell, Smith and Weightman all line up with the A standard under their belt. That's a race I'd travel up to Birmingham to see! Ditto the men's 400H, where the A standard is 49.50. Everyone in our current top 10 would see that as within their range for next year. It's quite feasible that someone will run sub 49 and not go to the Games.

BTW, the 5k A standard is only 15:15. That must be tempting for Steph Twell. Reaching the London final at 5 would be a lot easier than at 15. Only Checa and Fleshman from outside Ken and Eth broke 15 mins this year. Who else is there to worry about? Abylegesse if she comes back (but she'll focus most likely on the 10)? Fleshman and Hudle? Bekele if she regains form.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby bushop » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:01 am

Olympic spotlight won’t daunt me, insists sprint hope Williams
Tuesday 4th October 2011
"Should Williams compete at the Olympics she will do so with no experience of performing at a senior global event after she opted not to go to August’s World Championships in Daegu, against the wishes of the head coach of UK Athletics Charles van Commenee – a decision she still stands by."

Can anyone make sense of her not going? Seems like experience counts for something.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby PCSExponent » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:46 pm

I wish I had the time to find the exact quote, but the reason cited was something along the lines of her being inexperienced in big time senior events, and having never run at such a daunting event that the world champs are. You know, exactly the same as London will be, except London will be worse. Worst decision ever by an athlete?
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby Daisy » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:31 pm

Didn't Lewis Francis do the same thing?
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby John G » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:15 pm

Jodie was giving priority to her education (didn' want to miss start of her final school year, just like Dix did in 2007. How'd he do in Beijing?
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby mump boy » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:19 pm

If it had been me i would have gone but i'm not about to critizise anything Jodie and her team do, as they have done everything perfectly so far. I going to guess she knows what is best for her far better than any of us do.

She's a very smart girl
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby dunedine » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:18 am

I also think that Jodie Williams should have gone to Daegu since she would have earned a priceless excerience of a global championships environment, without any pressure placed on her to perform, that would serve her well in London next summer. Even as a mere relay member.

I don't think her studies were a real issue in the matter, she would have hardly missed a thing during the opening week of the school season, but whatever the grounds behind her decision it is fully respected.

MLF actually opted out of the Sydney Olympics to focus on winning the World U20s, Daisy, which he did, but in hindsight he must have regretted it most looking back on his career so far.

Hannah England and Lisa Dobriskey have got an edge over the others in the women's 1500m as they both already hold the A standard, current As will be coming in from April 1, but I think they're going to fill the two of the three places if fully fit.

Charlene Thomas, if over her injury woes, should be favourite to fill the third spot while I think Steph Twell should turn to the 5000 where things are more open - however, she should leave it up to late winter to assess her progress and make up her mind where to set her sights on thereon.

Last, I was also disappointed by the lack of top eight places in Daegu but for the British team to come out with seven individual medals was definitely a success, best haul since 1993. A positive message out of the whole picture is that Britain matched their medal target out of a team that slightly underperformed, without a single relay medal, meaning that they performed nearer the floor with a lot to spare on the ceiling of their potential.

At the end of the day, it's far easier to sort out your relays within a year than to put up new individual contenders and Crammie has got some good reasons to feel excited - first time I've heard him so in a long while.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby Daisy » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:32 am

dunedine wrote:MLF actually opted out of the Sydney Olympics to focus on winning the World U20s, Daisy, which he did, but in hindsight he must have regretted it most looking back on his career so far.

Now I remember. I definitely thought it was a missed opportunity at the time. Also, think of Linsey MacDonald and Ade Mafe. Both made the Olympic finals very young and as it turned out that was their last opportunity. Would have been a shame if they had missed out because everyone anticipated they'd be even better.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby mump boy » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:53 am

Daisy wrote:
dunedine wrote:MLF actually opted out of the Sydney Olympics to focus on winning the World U20s, Daisy, which he did, but in hindsight he must have regretted it most looking back on his career so far.

Now I remember. I definitely thought it was a missed opportunity at the time. Also, think of Linsey MacDonald and Ade Mafe. Both made the Olympic finals very young and as it turned out that was their last opportunity. Would have been a shame if they had missed out because everyone anticipated they'd be even better.


But if they hadn't experieence such intense competition at such a young age they may have lasted longer. What did MLF lose out on by missing sydney ?? He went to Athens and won a gold medal. I don't know his lack of subsequent achievement would have been any different had he gone in 2000. In fact we may have seen a faster decline
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby Daisy » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:06 am

mump boy wrote:In fact we may have seen a faster decline

Possibly. The controlled experiment is hard to set up.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby PCSExponent » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:55 am

Just my opinion - it's not competing that burns youngsters up.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby 72 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:13 am

goodness, can it be... I agree with Mump Boy on his last observation; we can never really draw convincing evidence about anything to do with an athletes potential future performances based upon precocity, but if an athlete's best was achieved at a very early stage in their career, and there are plenty to whom that applies all over the athletics world, surely,... thasts just life... such athletes may or may not have regrets, but don't we all ???
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby mump boy » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:41 am

PCSExponent wrote:Just my opinion - it's not competing that burns youngsters up.


Over training too early, too much competition and too much pressure all contribute to athletes not fullfilling their potential.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby dunedine » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:39 pm

mump boy wrote:
PCSExponent wrote:Just my opinion - it's not competing that burns youngsters up.


Over training too early, too much competition and too much pressure all contribute to athletes not fullfilling their potential.


Also add in a likely earlier biological maturity and potential liability to certain injuries, either natural or training induced.

Therefore, I agree above that competing at a major championships doesn't result in the burn-up of any youngster.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby fourjz » Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:07 pm

Please don't put Jodie Williams into medal contention yet.She's really young.She ran 11.17 once.Too much pressure from Great Britain and it's fans. 8-)
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby mump boy » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:30 am

fourjz wrote:Please don't put Jodie Williams into medal contention yet.She's really young.She ran 11.17 once.Too much pressure from Great Britain and it's fans. 8-)


I don't anyone is expecting a medal :?
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby dunedine » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:36 am

Jodie Williams isn't in a medal position, at least as things look now, but is definitely good enough to make a final, particularly in the 200m. From there on, especially at her age, none can really tell how much she can progress within the following 10 months, therefore nothing could be ruled out. Allyson Felix got an Olympic silver before she turned 19 so it turns on how good you are on the occasion.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby PCSExponent » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:06 am

mump boy wrote:Over training too early, too much competition and too much pressure all contribute to athletes not fullfilling their potential.


What I meant was, it's not (IMO) the one or two or however many "important" competitions a(n) (young) athlete has during the year, it's the 12 sessions per week, 4-8 hrs a day, months on end, that put most pressure on the body. But yes, if some coaches will increase the work load in relation with the number of competitions (which they shouldn't), then you could say it's "too much competition".

Hope this made sense, I'm not feeling very clear today :?
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby mump boy » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:22 am

PCSExponent wrote:
mump boy wrote:Over training too early, too much competition and too much pressure all contribute to athletes not fullfilling their potential.


What I meant was, it's not (IMO) the one or two or however many "important" competitions a(n) (young) athlete has during the year, it's the 12 sessions per week, 4-8 hrs a day, months on end, that put most pressure on the body. But yes, if some coaches will increase the work load in relation with the number of competitions (which they shouldn't), then you could say it's "too much competition".

Hope this made sense, I'm not feeling very clear today :?


i don't disagree with that in fact i know for a fact that it happens but i think psychological reasons are just as important as physical ones for burn out at a young age
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby dunedine » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:13 pm

Let me tell you that Mara Yamauchi won the Berlin 10km in 32:19, her fastest time since 2006, so the battle for places in the British team really heats up following Claire Hallissey's Olympic A qualifier of 2h29:27 in Chicago.

Liz Yelling is also edging back into form with a 72:14 over the half marathon in windy conditions.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby PCSExponent » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:58 am

And let's wait and see what Jo Pavey does in New York.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby mump boy » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:02 am

I wish Hayley Yelling would run a marathon as well. Obv the drean trio would be Paula, Mara and Jo but i'd love her to get to 2012
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby dunedine » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:20 am

By the way, for those who would like to check out UKA selection policy and current qualifiers, you can take a look here:

http://athleticsstargate.wordpress.com/qualifying-standards-and-qualifiers-for-the-olympic-games-in-london-2012/
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby dunedine » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:09 am

According to a tweet by Dalton Grant a little earlier on, British high jumpers are to be axed from funding going into the Olympic season. Very harsh decision, if it is so, as the country has got four five pretty good jumpers that will have to make it the hard way now. An Olympic silver by Germaine Mason, a European bronze by Martyn Bernard and top eight places in so many champs around don't warrant such a decision.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby Flumpy » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:23 pm

Only 2 of them made it to Daegu, and both went out in Qualification.

No one jumped higher than 2.28 this year.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby dunedine » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:07 pm

Actually, Parsons jumped 2.31m indoors. Last year,though, Bernard was bronze medalist at the Europeans, had problems with injuries this term as I understand and further I think he's been working on some new things and they may have not bedded in yet. In my view, he's got definitely potential to hit heights like 2.34-2.35.
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby peach77 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:37 pm

I think it's harsh on Bernard, who, yes, has had injury problems and has a proven record of performing well at championships. Mason hasn't done a thing since 2008 and should rightly go off funding and the rest just haven't performed when it matters- it's ok to say Parsons jumped 2.31 indoors, but a) that's not going to get you a medal at world level and b) it makes absolutely no difference if you don't replicate it at the championships.

Hopefully this will put fire in their bellies- there's amazing talent in our HJ rosta and it's one of those events in which it seems, time and again, it's just wasted...
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Re: UK's London Olympic medal contenders

Postby dunedine » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:50 am

Yes, most likely a 2.31 jump won't get you a medal but it can be good enough for a top eight place and provides a very good platform to build towards heights like 2.33-2.34 the following season.

But I agree that the decision has been particularly harsh on Martyn Bernard, pretty poor call in my view on the part of van Commennee et al.
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