UK's Moscow medal hopes • [Eriksson's out, who's in?]

[Daisy]

Coe said: "Chalk and cheese. Absolutely chalk and cheese."

What exactly does this mean?

[72]

fabulously amusing, Mump, to dredge up what someone said in 2009 about Mo; I suppose you never get it wrong, silly boy.!!... YOU knew, of course, that Farah would go on to much better things , but I would not waste my time dredging some of the childish rubbish posted by you on the AW Forum...( Sort of thing that the great Isabre used to do)
Hope you enjoy Daegu, as I enjoyed our best ever in 1993( two WRs and 10 Medals) and that you bump into lots of famous athletes which I know you love above all... and don't forget to take your FLAG.

Chalk and cheese... an old english saying meaning comparing two items that cannot validly be compared... like say, comparing Bolt and Jesse Owens performances.? or better still.... Mump Boy's knowledge of Track and Field compared to Mel Watman / Peter Matthews.!!!

[mump boy]

fabulously amusing, Mump, to dredge up what someone said in 2009 about Mo; I suppose you never get it wrong, silly boy.!!... YOU knew, of course, that Farah would go on to much better things , but I would not waste my time dredging some of the childish rubbish posted by you on the AW Forum...( Sort of thing that the great Isabre used to do)
Hope you enjoy Daegu, as I enjoyed our best ever in 1993( two WRs and 10 Medals) and that you bump into lots of famous athletes which I know you love above all... and don't forget to take your FLAG.

Chalk and cheese... an old english saying meaning comparing two items that cannot validly be compared... like say, comparing Bolt and Jesse Owens performances.? or better still.... Mump Boy's knowledge of Track and Field compared to Mel Watman / Peter Matthews.!!!

Don't worry flag packed and accreditation waiting for us

[Daisy]

Chalk and cheese... an old english saying meaning comparing two items that cannot validly be compared...

Right, i got this far. But is the implication the current team is crap or the current team is superior. What are the specific comparisons he is trying to make?

[bushop]

Will Daegu be Britain’s best ever?
25 August 2011
"... the American bible of the sport, Track & Field News, has put those four on top of its list of predictions."
four gold picks:
multis: Jessica Ennis
10K: Mo Farah
400m hurdler: Dai Greene
triple jump: Phillips Idowu
seven top-6 contenders:
1500m: Lisa Dobriskey
800m: Jenny Meadows
long jump: Chris Tomlinson
long jump: Greg Rutherford
400m hurdles: Perri Shakes-Drayton
100m hurdles: Tiffany Ofili-Porter
javelin: Goldie Sayers

Charles van Commenee: 'This golden generation can put Cram, Ovett and Coe in shade'
26 August 2011
"The last time a Great British track-and-field team travelled to South Korea for a global event – the Seoul Olympics in 1988 – they did so with... Between them, they won eight medals – but all of them of the Crackerjack pencil, silver or bronze consolation variety."
"The [Worlds] target is seven medals, including one gold," van Commenee said. "If we achieve that, I'll be a proud and happy man"

[mump boy]

Chalk and cheese... an old english saying meaning comparing two items that cannot validly be compared...

Right, i got this far. But is the implication the current team is crap or the current team is superior. What are the specific comparisons he is trying to make?

The implication isn't that one team is better than the other it is the preperation and attidute that is being compared favourably towards the current team

[bushop]

Track & Field News UK top-10 picks
800m:
4. Jenny Meadows 1:57.93 (’09)
• 9th with a 1:59.07
1500m:
9. Lisa Dobriskey 3:59.50 (’09)
• 11th in Heat 2 with a 4:12.70
n/a. Hannah England
sprint hurdles:
5. Tiffany Porter 12.60 (’11)
• 4th with a 12.63
400m hurdles:
6. Perri Shakes-Drayton 54.18 (’10)
• 9th with a 55.07
4x100m:
5. Great Britain 43.50 (’11)
• 13th in 43.95 (42.92 through to the final)
4x400m:
4. Great Britain 3:24.32 (’10)
• 4th with a 3:23.63 (3:19.36 for the bronze)
pole vault:
9. Holly Bleasdale 4.70m 15-05 (’11)
• NH
long jump:
9. Shara Proctor 6.81m 22-04¼ (’11)
• 11th in Group B with a 6.34m (-0.4)
javelin:
5. Goldie Sayers 65.75m 215-08 (’08)
• 10th with a 58.18m
heptathlon:
1. Jessica Ennis 6823 (’10)

5k:
2. Mo Farah 12:53.11 (’11)
10k:
1. Mo Farah 26:46.57 (’11)
sprint hurdles:
6. Andy Turner 13.22 (’11)
400m hurdles:
1. Dai Greene 47.88 (’10)
10. Nathan Woodward 48.71 (’11)
• 14th with a 49.57
4x100m:
5. Great Britain 38.41 (’10)
• DNF
4x400m:
4. Great Britain 3:02.25 (’10)
• 7th with a 3:01.16
long jump:
7. Chris Tomlinson 8.35m 27-04¾ (’11)
• 11th with 7.87m
8. Greg Rutherford 8.30m 27-02¾ (’09)
• 15th with 8.00m
triple jump:
1. Phillips Idowu 17.81m 58-05¼ (’10)
discus:
10. Brett Morse 66.06m 216-09 (’11)
• 12th with a 62.69m

gold
silver
bronze

[bushop]

UK athletes struggling to meet high expectations
Tuesday, 30 August 2011
"At the half way mark the team have three. And with plenty of medal prospects due to compete between now and Sunday, UK Athletics insists there is no need to panic."

[mump boy]

UK athletes struggling to meet high expectations
"At the half way mark the team have three. And with plenty of medal prospects due to compete between now and Sunday, UK Athletics insists there is no need to panic."

Using a medal table half way through a meet to evaluate how we;; we're doing is ridiculous. There are only 4 countries with more medals than us so far and 6 with a single gold medal which would out them ahead of a country with 100 lesser medals.

Things ahven't gone to plan so far but there is more to come so lets leave this discussion to the end of the week.

What has been more disappointing is the lack of progress made by those below medal expectations, apart from Brett Morse i can't think of one athlete who has achieved above expectations

actually Andrew Osagie did good, as did Andy Turner (obv) and Yamile Aldama and that's it so far

[Daisy]

What were the expectations for Hannah England coming into this meet?

[Flumpy]

That she's make the final but in a far easier manner than she managed. She has an outside chance of a medal as do about a dozen other people.

[72]

To me the number of Medals is only one aspect of performances .

My daily note of national Top Eight performances tells me that after 45 % of the Champs are complete, 21 events, the Brits are on 24 placement points in equal 9th place with Cuba; the total achieved in Berlin was 81 points, and in Osaka 61 points. We are going to stuggle but not achieve I think what we achieved in Berlin.In addition, GB has 4 top eights so far well below the 20 they achieved in total in Brlin with 13 in Osaka.

I was fairly sure that despite all the UKA and media PR stuff, GB would struggle somewhat in the conditons and with a team who are not battle - hardened in many areas.

Just read that Rich Perelman in a detailed report on the Americans performances so far shows that they are well down on their USA Champs form right across the board. Long season for their team though.

The top 8 Placement points after 21 events are USA 102.. Russia 96( 26 points in Walks)...Kenya 79....China 46...Germany 44...Poland 35...Jamaica 34....Ethiopia 33... GB and Cuba...24

[72]

I reckon Hannah England, hardly the most experienced athlete in the 1500m, will do well to come in the first six. She is still inconsistent in tactics and I prefer athletes with slightly smaller strides when the change of pace takes place.

[Flumpy]

Good point!!!

[Johnners]

More succinct, anti-GB 'I hope they all fail' analysis from 72.....twit (swap the vowel too, love).

[mump boy]

UK athletes struggling to meet high expectations
"At the half way mark the team have three. And with plenty of medal prospects due to compete between now and Sunday, UK Athletics insists there is no need to panic."

Using a medal table half way through a meet to evaluate how we;; we're doing is ridiculous. There are only 4 countries with more medals than us so far and 6 with a single gold medal which would out them ahead of a country with 100 lesser medals.

Things ahven't gone to plan so far but there is more to come so lets leave this discussion to the end of the week.

What has been more disappointing is the lack of progress made by those below medal expectations, apart from Brett Morse i can't think of one athlete who has achieved above expectations

actually Andrew Osagie did good, as did Andy Turner (obv) and Yamile Aldama and that's it so far

What a difference a day makes

Lj boys apart everyone did brilliant yesterday

[Flumpy]

And what a difference another day makes.

Apart from Emma Jackson today was a complete disaster.

Having said that I don't think Jenny did anything wrong in her race just wasn't fast enough.

Phillips and the w4x4 qualified easily as well. Other than that

[bushop]

van Commenee Slams Under-Performers
Sunday September 4, 2011
"Despite their haul of seven medals in Daegu, South Korea, van Commenee singled out a number of 'under-performing' athletes ranging from the merely disappointing to the 'unforgivable'... There are disappointments but two-and-a-half years ago, if I could predict we would have seven medals, I would have been very happy with that."

[72]

Sorry that the flag wavers have now infested here from the UK .

You Brits are all only or primarily interested in medals; some of us ,even CVC, are more interested in top 8s and points placements as a truer and more relevant sign of achievements by the GB team.
Well in Berlin, we got 81 points and 20 top eights; we got 70 points and a mere 12 top 8s in Daegu(less than Osaka).Our points total was down on Berlin 2009. Only 11 months to go.!!!

Sorry Flag Wavers to mention the real current state of our track and field. We got about 25 % of our individual athletes into top eights. Wonder why CVC is n't too thrilled.

And all that special training and millions of pounds spent and imported coaches and athletes bullied to change coaches and uproot their residences and comfort zones and sudden love of being a "British athlete".

If you are happy with that %age ... enjoy.

London medallists and top 8s and total points I cannot see why that will be any betteror worse than Berlin 2009.

[72]

Fact: GB had 12 top 8s.

In addition to GB's 7 medals there were 3, yes that's 3, individuals in the top 8 placings (2 in Relays)


Thank you, Tiffany Porter, Aldama, and Sharman. No wonder UKA were so frigging keen!!


Well done GB athletes; augurs well for London 2012!!!

[Daisy]

Well in Berlin, we got 81 points and 20 top eights; we got 70 points and a mere 12 top 8s in Daegu(less than Osaka).Our points total was down on Berlin 2009.

Any idea what the stats were for 1993?

[72]

just counted a quick 18 top eights in Stuttgart1993 and more points than Daegu but 3 golds and two World Records ; not too bad.

One thing you wont see again, British athletes with 2 WRs in a WC/OG

[mump boy]

just counted a quick 18 top eights in Stuttgart1993 and more points than Daegu but 3 golds and two World Records ; not too bad.

One thing you wont see again, British athletes with 2 WRs in a WC/OG

Don't you just love to revel in your own percieved failures. You could also say 7 medals 2 gold 4 silver 1 bronze best champs since 93 or even better 2nd best world champs ever

you love to compare todays athletes to those of the past so how about 95 when we only won 1 medal in a male track event in fact only 4 athletes got medals at all (kelly got 2) and only 1 gold.

How about 97 when our only gold came in a relay (this doesn't count in your book) and we only got that 13 years later after US were DQ'd

2001 was a corker we got 2 medals

and 2003 3 medals no gold and 30th on the medal table

2005 Paula came to the rescue with an individual gold to go with our 2 relay bronzes

even if we go back to the 80's we didn't do any better

83 7 medals but worse colours than this time
87 8 medals but only 1 gold
91 7 medals and 2 gold but once again we did better this time

So apart from 93 this was our best medal total ever and things seem to be moving in the right direction

There is loads of great young talent coming through and some of our athletes now consistently deliver when it counts.

Of course it's not perfect, the lack of finalists is worrying and there are still too many people who perform badly at champs but this eutopia of athletics achievement that you are always harping on about No1 never existed and No2 even if it did, get over it an try taking a little bit of pleasure in what's on offer right now, instead of constant carping.

PS we did some AMAZING flag waving in Daegu you may have seen us on tv

[John G]

just counted a quick 18 top eights in Stuttgart1993 and more points than Daegu but 3 golds and two World Records ; not too bad.

One thing you wont see again, British athletes with 2 WRs in a WC/OG

72 - Like you, I see 12 top 8s as a real disappointment. Difference is you seem to be revelling in the disappointment. Time to find another sport? Or maybe I could just share my dvd archive of the good old days and you could lose yourself in reverie (no bad thing!!).

You remind me of my Dad, a member of BASC. I rang him after Mo's loss in the 10k. I said I hadn't been so disappointed by a sporting loss since Edwards in Atlanta. He professed he wasn't at all bothered and said in fact he hadn't been surprised or disappointed by any GB loss since Bedford in 72.

(Actually, he wasn't disappointed or surprised by Bedford losing - he laughed and told me that he was only 6th best in the world anyway, thus reducing me to tears (I was only 6, I hasten to add)). It took me years to forgive him and then he cheered when Coe beat Ovett in Moscow. Unforgiveable.

Maybe I should save this stuff for analysis.

[Rog]

just counted a quick 18 top eights in Stuttgart1993 and more points than Daegu but 3 golds and two World Records ; not too bad.

One thing you wont see again, British athletes with 2 WRs in a WC/OG

72 - Like you, I see 12 top 8s as a real disappointment. Difference is you seem to be revelling in the disappointment. Time to find another sport? Or maybe I could just share my dvd archive of the good old days and you could lose yourself in reverie (no bad thing!!).

You remind me of my Dad, a member of BASC. I rang him after Mo's loss in the 10k. I said I hadn't been so disappointed by a sporting loss since Edwards in Atlanta. He professed he wasn't at all bothered and said in fact he hadn't been surprised or disappointed by any GB loss since Bedford in 72.

(Actually, he wasn't disappointed or surprised by Bedford losing - he laughed and told me that he was only 6th best in the world anyway, thus reducing me to tears (I was only 6, I hasten to add)). It took me years to forgive him and then he cheered when Coe beat Ovett in Moscow. Unforgiveable.

Maybe I should save this stuff for analysis.

I'm betting he's had a field day over Paula Radcliffe.

[bushop]

Next Stop, London. All Change, Please.
Gwenda Ward on Sunday, September 11th, 2011
"We onlookers can only agree. This is certainly not the finished or even nearly finished product that we might have expected for our £11,000,000 per annum investment. Notwithstanding the national delight at the medals accrued by Mo’s maturity, Greene’s composure, Ennis’s courage, England’s joyful and elegant opportunism, Idowu’s solidity and Turner’s luck, there is much to be concerned about one year away from London."

[az2004]

is great britians decline in t&f, since the days of ovett, coe, and others, more becase kids primary sport is soccer,AND the pool of ELITE talent gets siphoned onto a direction where BIG mney is far easier to make??

[72]

Revelling in British disappointments ... you are crazy

I just will not accept the bulls hit about the Golden era we are supposedly in or about to enter, or UKA and AW trying to convince me that all is well with British athletics ; it is NOT and attempts by various Flag wavers to spin the situation and to state otherwise are just smokescreen stuff, which goes down well with bureaucrats at UKA head office.
The current bunch of leaders in our sport are a hopeless group who love their financial packages but have achieved little better than was achieved for long periods before 1997 when they came into existence.

Mo Farah suceeded by his own dedication and Greene is not coached by some UKA creep even from abroad and neither is JE; no,no,no, the uncomfortable fact is that our male sprinters of reason times have mostly disappointed, our women sprinters are second rate; our male middle distance runners, traditonally fairly sound from periods before and after the WW2, are beyond comment; MO is out on his own; we haven't got even a reasonable Steepler;hammer, javelin, shot nowhere to be seen; our field events in the women are dreadful; long distance runners... Paula is not doing them now!!!

I do not revel in Brit disappointments... the Daegu results were nothing special, whether the FWers like the facts or not. Believe it or not, there are even a few ex- athletes, coaches and officials who agree that things aint so wonderful with our elite or alleged elite as the Cheerleaders here and elsewhere like to pretend.
49 athgletes on Podium potential funding( a frigging joke to plenty) and we got ten top Eights; nearly a third were injured , coming back from injured or not in form to even go to the WC.

We will soon be left with even poorer and less participatory club athletics, which everyone with their eyes open now knows continues apace, people like Tom McNab, formerly a Chief National Coach. UKA are only interested in a Medals which is sad obsession on this Forum and AW in the UK... good elitist stuff for some, but not me.

How much cash should the Tax payer be expected to lob out for half a dozen medals.??

[bushop]

Cram Expects Success From GB Athletes at London 2012
02 October 2011
“I am very excited about next year,” he told the BBC. “GB will have eight to 10 good medal chances at the London 2012 Olympics and if they can convert six to eight of them, that will be great."... naming Hannah England, Lisa Dobriskey and Steph Twell as potential 1500m finalists and over course Mo Farah as a medalist.

[PCSExponent]

naming Hannah England, Lisa Dobriskey and Steph Twell

I was ecstatic to read about Twell's return to competition, but let's wait a little with the prognostications, Crammy

[John G]

naming Hannah England, Lisa Dobriskey and Steph Twell

I was ecstatic to read about Twell's return to competition, but let's wait a little with the prognostications, Crammy

Just qualifying for our W1500 team will be tough enough. If Charlene Thomas finally gets a little luck I have a sneaky feeling she'll get a berth. I can certainly see her beating England and Dobriskey in the Trials (they'll be peaking for the Games, she'll be peaking for the Trials). Steph has the greatest potential and I'm pretty sure she would have run close to sub-4 this year had it not been for the injury. I also think she is a far better tactician than England or Dobriskey. Fingers crossed she makes a full recovery (I guess we'll have a better idea of the long term affect of the injury on her after a XC season). I wonder if that bad an ankle injury will affect her ability to sprint and we might see her move to 5000 earlier than expected (she'd have a better chance of getting into the team even now).

Also can't discount Weightman and Smith, who set PBs again this year and should be in 4:04 territory in 2012, if not faster.

The one they should all worry about is Jemma Simpson. If/when she moves up I think she'll be a regular member of the team (not least because so many of the Trials finals turn in 800 races.

[bushop]

naming Hannah England, Lisa Dobriskey and Steph Twell

I can certainly see [Charlene Thomas] beating England and Dobriskey in the Trials (they'll be peaking for the Games, she'll be peaking for the Trials).

Will England and Dobriskey be pre-selected?

[John G]

naming Hannah England, Lisa Dobriskey and Steph Twell

I can certainly see [Charlene Thomas] beating England and Dobriskey in the Trials (they'll be peaking for the Games, she'll be peaking for the Trials).

Will England and Dobriskey be pre-selected?

There will be no pre-selections (the 2012 selection policy is already published on UKA's website).

Crucial bit:
The first two eligible athletes in the final of each discipline at the Trials will be automatically
nominated for that discipline provided that either
i) they have achieved a Current UKA “A” standard (as set out in point 9 below) in the discipline; or
ii) they placed in the top eight in the discipline at the 2011 Daegu World Championship and have achieved at least one valid UKA “A” standard in the discipline at any time within the
Qualification Period.

The A standard is only 4:06. You can imagine a scenario where England, Dobriskey, Thomas, Twell, Smith and Weightman all line up with the A standard under their belt. That's a race I'd travel up to Birmingham to see! Ditto the men's 400H, where the A standard is 49.50. Everyone in our current top 10 would see that as within their range for next year. It's quite feasible that someone will run sub 49 and not go to the Games.

BTW, the 5k A standard is only 15:15. That must be tempting for Steph Twell. Reaching the London final at 5 would be a lot easier than at 15. Only Checa and Fleshman from outside Ken and Eth broke 15 mins this year. Who else is there to worry about? Abylegesse if she comes back (but she'll focus most likely on the 10)? Fleshman and Hudle? Bekele if she regains form.

[bushop]

Olympic spotlight won’t daunt me, insists sprint hope Williams
Tuesday 4th October 2011
"Should Williams compete at the Olympics she will do so with no experience of performing at a senior global event after she opted not to go to August’s World Championships in Daegu, against the wishes of the head coach of UK Athletics Charles van Commenee – a decision she still stands by."

Can anyone make sense of her not going? Seems like experience counts for something.

[PCSExponent]

I wish I had the time to find the exact quote, but the reason cited was something along the lines of her being inexperienced in big time senior events, and having never run at such a daunting event that the world champs are. You know, exactly the same as London will be, except London will be worse. Worst decision ever by an athlete?