If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII


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Re: If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:22 am

jeremyp wrote:
catson52 wrote:All those votes for Ike are rather disturbing. He has left one legacy that still makes most Americans see red (and no not communist). That was his sleeping on the job and/or playing at Augusta, whilst the Dulles brothers, egged on by MI5 (or then equivalent) in Britain, engineered a coup against a democratically elected leader in Iran. Still paying the price for that including the hostage crisis of the late seventies. Long term, if Mossadegh had remained in power and proved reasonably balanced in his views (not that unlikely) the Middle East might have reached much better shape 30-40 years back. No need for the Arab Spring in 2011, and we still don't know how that one will turn out.


While I agree that the Mossadeq affair was a huge mistake, I just don't agree that the M.E. would have been any different. What happens in Iran tends to stay in Iran. After all after when Khomeini came to power we did not see a rush of religious fanatics take power elsewhere, just the opposite. Also Ike's move to spank the U.K., Israel, and France for taking over the Suez Canal balanced him out in the M.E. I too am an adult long Democrat and have found Ike to be loking better and better as well. My choice for Prez would probably be LBJ for domestic issues, and Truman for foreign policy issues.

As long as we're talking about blowback, let's not forget about Truman's decision to become the first foreign leader to recognize Israel which was done largely for domestic politics. Here's how the Washington Post's Richard Cohen put it:
The greatest mistake Israel could make at the moment is to forget that Israel itself is a mistake. . . . . . the idea of creating a nation of European Jews in an area of Arab Muslims (and some Christians) has produced a century of warfare and terrorism of the sort we are seeing now. Israel fights Hezbollah in the north and Hamas in the south, but its most formidable enemy is history itself.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01154.html
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Re: If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII

Postby bambam » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:48 pm

bad hammy wrote:
kuha wrote:I've definitely become more accepting of Nixon over the years. Absolutely hated him at the time, but now see that--severe personal flaws aside :? --he was intelligent, worldly, and even daring. By today's standards (but ONLY by today's standards), he'd be seen as a leftist.

Nixon did some great things. Number one on my list is killing the military draft a year before I was eligible. China and the EPA were pretty good too . . .


Actually, bad hammy, it was 3 months before my student deferment ran out that he ended it, and with my draft # of 27 I was already planning on it.
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Re: If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII

Postby tandfman » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:50 pm

bruce3404 wrote:I wish we still had a draft during wartime since it probably would have kept us out of all the stupid conflicts we've become involved in since Vietnam.

I'm not sure a draft would have kept us out of any of these conflicts, but it might have enabled us to do a better job with the conflicts that we have chosen to become involved in.
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Re: If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII

Postby gh » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:46 pm

end of the draft one of the worst things that ever happened to the U.S.

Say what you will about all the civil-rights leaders; if we hadn't had an integrated (relative speaking) military, the world would be hugely different.

And now we're back to less mixing of the races (to say nothing of much less learning of discipline), much to the nation's detriment.
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Re: If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII

Postby lonewolf » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:08 pm

gh wrote:end of the draft one of the worst things that ever happened to the U.S.


Right on, brother! UMT should be resumed. Everyone, rich and poor, needs a little basic training and discipline. It is a great equalizer and the nation needs a massive reserve of partially trained men. Six months out of an 18 years old life is nothing.
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Re: If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:16 pm

lonewolf wrote:
gh wrote:end of the draft one of the worst things that ever happened to the U.S.


Right on, brother! UMT should be resumed. Everyone, rich and poor, needs a little basic training and discipline. It is a great equalizer and the nation needs a massive reserve of partially trained men. Six months out of an 18 years old life is nothing.

I think all democracies should institute mandatory drafts without loopholes whenever they go to war.
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Re: If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII

Postby lonewolf » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:21 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
lonewolf wrote:
gh wrote:end of the draft one of the worst things that ever happened to the U.S.


Right on, brother! UMT should be resumed. Everyone, rich and poor, needs a little basic training and discipline. It is a great equalizer and the nation needs a massive reserve of partially trained men. Six months out of an 18 years old life is nothing.

I think all democracies should institute mandatory drafts without loopholes whenever they go to war.

We should also have Universal Military Training when we are not at war. Helps prevent wars.
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Re: If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII

Postby valleyrunner » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:46 pm

First I would say I would elect any of the Presidents who was more interested in makin the tough decision no matter the consequence politically.

At the top of my list would be Truman and Clinton. Eisenhower was limited in his scope of accomplishments he should get full credit for but would be right behind my top 2 and I do like much of what Nixon accomplished. I see Nixon's undoing thanks to Watergate as much like Jim Tressel's botched handling of Tattoogate. Good overall effort but now forever remembered for their scandal.

JFK had great intentions but not enough experience. If he had waited another 8 years to run he would have been far more effective. LBJ was effective in getting social policies passed such as Civil Rights and the Great Society and is due some commendation for such but this was largely due to his experience in Congress and the arm-twisting he did. He was extremely corrupt on some issues and the man behind the grassy knoll.

Reagan really was worse than Bush, Jr when you consider the many things already mentioned here. Obama can go either way but until he grows a pair and calls the Republicans' bluff he is doomed to be essentially ineffective. His strategy seems more focused on not doing anything to lose the White House rather than just going out and doing what his conviction tells him is the right path. Like many teams that have a large mid-2nd half lead that start playing not to lose and end up choking the game away, this is where I view Obama at the moment.
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Re: If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII

Postby bman » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:48 am

Yes reinstating the draft would have good elements to it, such as promotion of diversity, brotherhood with your fellow man, etc. One of the really positive after effects of WWII. And yes it is also undeniably true that it would make wars much more difficult to wage (unless it is truly just like WWII, but there are few of those). I am uncomfortable about the socio-economic divide between our leaders and those who serve in today's armed forces, few in today's government served themselves and I fear the effect that has on their decision making. There was a day when almost everyone in government had served in the military, they knew what it was like. A draft would help all young people get out of their comfort zone and mix it up out in the world, a good thing. I am still a little uncomfortable about the idea that we are training our entire population to be soldiers, I don't know I just don't like the sound of that, but perhaps by preconceived notions here are getting in the way of what the real effect would be. In fact it would probably do good in that it gives a real picture of the military other than the movie/video game one.
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Re: If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII

Postby gh » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:54 am

Not everybody is cut out for military life, of course. There should also be an option like Vista or the Peace Corps. Some form of service to the country.
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Re: If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:01 am

gh wrote:Not everybody is cut out for military life, of course. There should also be an option like Vista or the Peace Corps. Some form of service to the country.


I wholeheartedly endorse that.
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Re: If You Could Re-Elect Any President Since WWII

Postby valleyrunner » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:25 am

To all the great arguments in favor of some national service I would add that by having every American serve in some form of national service would remind today's youth there are sacrifices in life. Too many of the young of today think that they are entitled to just about everything without having to work for anything. Not only should we include military service, Vista and Peace Corps but even Americorps or some new programs to allow them to serve here in the US. Getting the international experience would be great but we have many needs here at home that could benefit from such a program as Americorps.

Serving in any program would allow them to learn more about the world and themselves as well which would in turn help them not struggle in their next steps as I see so many who can't handle college as they are not focused on why they are there too often when they leave HS and go straight to college.
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