Normally open July 4th only---the one day a year when partisan politics, religion, etc. are acceptable topics on this Board. (The 2012 window is now closed; thanks for playing.)
Not central to the discussion perhaps, but the El G-Ngeny effect should not be totally discounted. What was Ngeny's best time in a non-El G 1500/mile race? Merv Lincoln was pulled to 3:55.9 behind Elliott at Dublin, what was his best effort without Herb in the race? Look at Graham Crouch's time in Christchurch in 1974, pulled along by Bayi. All these athletes, "latched on" to the leader, and produced superb results. This is not to say they were without talent.
AS wrote:I seem to recall there being video footage of the meet... in which case the miscounted lap and made-up-time conspiracies would be easily disproved...
Let's see it. It SHOULD exist, but does it?
I'm pretty sure I recall a Japanese TV network running some of the races in their entirety.
All I'm saying is: let's see this footage and at least attempt to analyze it. I've never seen it and find it interesting that no seems able to actually produce it.
kuha wrote:All I'm saying is: let's see this footage and at least attempt to analyze it. I've never seen it and find it interesting that no seems able to actually produce it.
Yes, I too would like to see this footage. To count laps and also to see if the folks who ran outside China are in the race.
catson52 wrote:Not central to the discussion perhaps, but the El G-Ngeny effect should not be totally discounted. What was Ngeny's best time in a non-El G 1500/mile race? Merv Lincoln was pulled to 3:55.9 behind Elliott at Dublin, what was his best effort without Herb in the race? Look at Graham Crouch's time in Christchurch in 1974, pulled along by Bayi. All these athletes, "latched on" to the leader, and produced superb results. This is not to say they were without talent.
A 16 m.p.h. draft can defintely make a difference in races like this.
catson52 wrote:Not central to the discussion perhaps, but the El G-Ngeny effect should not be totally discounted. What was Ngeny's best time in a non-El G 1500/mile race? Merv Lincoln was pulled to 3:55.9 behind Elliott at Dublin, what was his best effort without Herb in the race? Look at Graham Crouch's time in Christchurch in 1974, pulled along by Bayi. All these athletes, "latched on" to the leader, and produced superb results. This is not to say they were without talent.
Yes, BUT, we're talking about two pretty clearly separate things in terms of 1993: a) individuals who achieved massive lifetime bests; and b) a number of other athletes who achieved massive lifetime bests on consecutive days in multiple events.
What could Graham Crouch have done the day after the Christchurch race? And the day after that? And the day after that? THAT is the genuinely relevant question.
catson52 wrote:Not central to the discussion perhaps, but the El G-Ngeny effect should not be totally discounted. What was Ngeny's best time in a non-El G 1500/mile race? Merv Lincoln was pulled to 3:55.9 behind Elliott at Dublin, what was his best effort without Herb in the race? Look at Graham Crouch's time in Christchurch in 1974, pulled along by Bayi. All these athletes, "latched on" to the leader, and produced superb results. This is not to say they were without talent.
Yes, BUT, we're talking about two pretty clearly separate things in terms of 1993: a) individuals who achieved massive lifetime bests; and b) a number of other athletes who achieved massive lifetime bests on consecutive days in multiple events.
What could Graham Crouch have done the day after the Christchurch race? And the day after that? And the day after that? THAT is the genuinely relevant question.
Right. The equivalent would have been a 1500 in about 3:20 and the rest of the field under 3:30 and that back in 1974. Ridiculous.
kuha wrote:All I'm saying is: let's see this footage and at least attempt to analyze it. I've never seen it and find it interesting that no seems able to actually produce it.
Yes, I too would like to see this footage. To count laps and also to see if the folks who ran outside China are in the race.
I'm 99% certain that footage was well analyzed at the time, since that was the first reaction.
I invite anyone who has done so to contribute here, to point out any published commentary on the matter, or to make that original footage more readily available. Inquiring Minds Want to Know.
Certainly an interesting time. And maybe the best edition (De.'93) of T&FN ever. It was really unclear what China was capable of and to what lengths they were willing to go?
