Debt ceiling


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Debt ceiling

Postby Daisy » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:06 am

Who will be blamed if the economy implodes? I'm guessing that the GOP believes the voters will blame Obama.
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Re: Debt ceiling

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:41 am

The GOP are going to blame Obama anyways...


"So, here’s where we are on the debt limit discussions: Democrats have agreed to large spending cuts, but are holding out for doing something about a rule that lets businesses value their inventory at less than they bought it for in order to lower their tax burden, a loophole that lets hedge-fund managers count their income as capital gains and pay a 15 percent marginal tax rate, the tax treatment of private jets, oil and gas subsidies, and a limit on itemized deductions for the wealthy.

And Republicans walked out.

Think about it. There’s a significant chance that failing to raise the debt limit could provoke a renewed financial crisis — and Republicans would rather take that chance than allow a reduction in tax breaks on corporate jets."

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0 ... it-stakes/
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Re: Debt ceiling

Postby odelltrclan » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:54 am

Conor Dary wrote:The GOP are going to blame Obama anyways...


"So, here’s where we are on the debt limit discussions: Democrats have agreed to large spending cuts, but are holding out for doing something about a rule that lets businesses value their inventory at less than they bought it for in order to lower their tax burden, a loophole that lets hedge-fund managers count their income as capital gains and pay a 15 percent marginal tax rate, the tax treatment of private jets, oil and gas subsidies, and a limit on itemized deductions for the wealthy.

And Republicans walked out.

Think about it. There’s a significant chance that failing to raise the debt limit could provoke a renewed financial crisis — and Republicans would rather take that chance than allow a reduction in tax breaks on corporate jets."

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0 ... it-stakes/


Both sides are POSTURING and will continue to do so until the last possible moment. The items being thrown out there by the DEMS on the tax side are milli-pennies on the dollars for what problems exist.
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Re: Debt ceiling

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:52 am

The posturing is all on the Republican side. Why? Because they really don't care about the deficit. It is just an excuse by the Republicans and Very Serious People to get rid of Social Security and Medicare.

And we don't have a deficit problem.

"The single most important fact about our projected deficits is that if Congress does nothing, they go away. You might not like how they go away — it’s mostly higher taxes and sharp cuts to Medicare — but they go away. That means that the deficit problem we’re always talking about is a problem that we don’t actually have yet."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezr ... ezra-klein
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Re: Debt ceiling

Postby jeremyp » Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:00 pm

The problem is that Democrats THINK they know the answer: cut spending, raise taxes. The Republicans KNOW they have the answer: cut spending, never raise taxes. If you remember the Republicans KNEW Iraq had weapons of mass destruction; the Democrats THOUGHT they might. Unfortunately in political gamesmanship having the votes and the conviction trump not having the votes or the conviction.
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Re: Debt ceiling

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:03 am

I think that the Republicans are likely to take a bath if they push it over the edge. Some think; there will be damage to the economy and that hurts Obama. However, it will switch responsibility for the economy back to the Republicans and they will lose what they think is an advantage.
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Re: Debt ceiling

Postby valleyrunner » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:18 pm

I believe you are correct 26m235.

The posturing by the Republicans to either a) not eliminate tax loopholes or b) not get rid of the Bush tax cuts will eventually lead them to become the group to blame when the whole US economy tanks at levels worse than the Great Depression which is what they are playing with if they don't raise the debt ceiling which is so not really a major issue.

I would agree the Demos need to grow a pair and simply put up the historical chart showing the tax rate on the highest income tax bracket and they show the same graph on an overlay of when the Reagan and Bush tax cuts were inacted and the most uneducated Americans could easily see - well, duh, there is the problem.

When we had by all accounts excessively high taxes in the 50's and early 60's look at the projects the US produced "GI bill, interstate highways, major airports, electrical power grid, etc" that used PRIVATE companies to provide public goods and these goods then benefitted the development of many more PRIVATE companies such as US car manufacturers, etc. If our government today would invest at the same % of GDP as we did then (we can't fathom that at current tax rates that are half that of the 50's and 60's) In the end our country has historically grown during the higher tax days and suffered when tax cuts inacted.

Lets keep in mind as we watch state after state make drastic cuts to public education from K-university levels that over 90% of our politicians and their children attended private colleges and have no desire to fund it. I sat in on a meeting as an intern 2 decades ago for a soon to be elected Republican governor of a southern state that said he would talk about education reform and what he really wanted to reform was how much money was going into the schools that he and his friends were not only not benefitting from but as these uneducated folks got opportunities to learn they would more likely than not become opponents of the party in the decades ahead. This is where the real racism in this country lies.
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Re: Debt ceiling

Postby kuha » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:38 pm

It may be harsh to actually say it "out loud," but the Republicans have no interest whatever in actual deficit reduction or fiscal prudence. The really big agenda is to remake American society: to roll back the New Deal and all it represents. That means, in part, hollowing out the public sphere (i.e., all the things that represent our "commonwealth") in favor of private ownership, private enterprise, and private profit. The goal is to transfer even more money and power to the people who already have the bulk of the money and power. With this in mind, a fair bit of the Kabuki theater we're seeing in D.C. begins to make sense.
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Re: Debt ceiling

Postby Daisy » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:48 pm

valleyrunner wrote:Lets keep in mind as we watch state after state make drastic cuts to public education from K-university levels that over 90% of our politicians and their children attended private colleges and have no desire to fund it.

Here in WI the vouchers will now make it possible for the wealthy to get refunds for their kids private education. So they're not just defunding public education, they're also redirecting funds to the private school system.
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