Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?


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Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby TrakFan » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:31 am

When some see my blue military ID card they usually say "Thank you for your service." And, my typical, light-hearted response is "Thank you for paying your taxes."

Marlow and others will agree that being a vet ain't half bad... I started drawing a monthly pension at the age of 38 (easily pays my mortgage), the health insurance premium for me and my family is $600 per year, I've NEVER paid a dime for any prescription drug for my family, and I was actually paid money to obtain my master’s degree. The tuition was already free (for me), and I received an additional $1100 every month while enrolled in classes. The majority of former and current military are Republicans, and many share the same stance on taxes -- there should NEVER be any increases. YET, many of those same (non-injured/desk warrior) individuals receive amazing befits until the day they kick the bucket.

Are they and others (Medicare recips) who receive benefit from the government being hypocritical when they complain and fight against tax increases?
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby gh » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:33 am

So the military essentially has socialized medicine. As do the big Washington pols, right? They just don't want anybody else to have it.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby kuha » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:43 am

gh wrote:So the military essentially has socialized medicine. As do the big Washington pols, right? They just don't want anybody else to have it.


Correct. When the system actually has to work and to cover a valued group, it's "socialism" all the way. However, when the system can be rigged so that lots of "public" money ends up in the hands of the already-well-to-do, then we celebrate the free market.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby bruce3404 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:57 am

I can't begin to understand Medicare and Social Security recipients who continue to support the GOP, but I guess the GOP has a lot of financially struggling supporters who think their party is going to make life better for them. I can only think of two reasons to vote Republican:
1. You're already wealthy (and don't have a conscience).
2. Religious beliefs and buying into the idea that the Republicans (deep down) are really anti-abortion (without recognizing that you can't be both anti-abortion and anti-welfare, at least not if you're thinking about the consequences of dumping hundreds of thousands of unwanted children onto the relief roles). The GOP will continue to posture about rights to life, and they'll also continue to not do anything to change current law.

Meanwhile, we continue to piss money away "defending the world" while our citizens live with lousy schools, a crumbling infrastructure, massive foreign debt and one of the worst health care systems in the civilized world. Bring ALL the troops home, impose a VAT and start looking at the health and social services models of other countries with higher standards of living for all.
Last edited by bruce3404 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby Marlow » Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:01 pm

gh wrote:So the military essentially has socialized medicine. As do the big Washington pols, right? They just don't want anybody else to have it.

I love how Congress are all about cuts in benefits and yet keep voting THEMSELVES more benefits. [Plus I'm totally not buying the rationale they give for it - they've earned these perqs by being great public servants . . . as if!!!].

When I was commissioned in 1973, I was PROMISED that if I served 20 years, my wife and I (and kids to 21) would have FREE medical coverage for LIFE. Now I pay $460 a year (admittedly a pittance, but not what they promised!) and have co-pays for whatever services they say they can't do, and whatever drugs they don't carry. I don't mind this so much, but it does BURN me that Congress sees no problem breaking promises and cutting benefits, while THEIR butts are covered. :evil:
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby TrakFan » Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:03 pm

gh wrote:So the military essentially has socialized medicine. As do the big Washington pols, right? They just don't want anybody else to have it.


Yup, and it's not cheap (for taxpayers). Many recall how vets were treated during Vietnam, and generally make a point to be "respectful." IMHO, being respectful doesn't rule out letting an individual or group know that their stance on an issue is hypocritical.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby Pego » Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:12 pm

The funniest thing about the "socialized medicine" is that the first national universal health care coverage was instituted by that well known commie pinko liberal, Chancellor Otto von Bismarck.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby jeremyp » Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:30 pm

I'm on medciare. I paid into it. I still pay into it. My medical expenses a year average $10-12,000. (That's about 20% of my income). I'm quite healthy, for 70, and so is my wife. Premiums are 65% of the cost, meds are 18% MD's the rest. I don't object to an increase in my premium, as long as it's pro rated to income. I'm in favor of all those with over $1 million in assets, or 250k annual income, being denied medicare, and social security.

I do object to a medical benefit that does not allow the govt to negotiate lower prices with the pharmaceutical companies. Veteran medication benefits were negotiated lower, so that saved money. And I believe the Canadian govt negotiates lower med prices as well. Republicans always seem willing to screw tax payers rather than big business.

Most of us on medicare have one big problem with anyone messing with it. We have not the income to face ever higher premiums. We're stuck! Young folk if you want a decent health benefit when old, you have to pay more for it. Yup raise taxes.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby bruce3404 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:29 pm

jeremyp wrote: I'm in favor of all those with over $1 million in assets, or 250k annual income, being denied medicare, and social security.


Now that's a bit too socialistic for my tastes. Let's see, save as much as you can while your friends have the latest Beemers and whatever other toys they buy that they can't afford, then get penalized when you retire and, worse yet, have to watch the non-savers collect Medicare that you paid for. Sorry, not buyin' in to that argument; not everyone, but way too many people who had the ability to save during their working years chose not to. Anyone who tries to f*@k with the Medicare and SS that I funded and that was part of my retirement strategy will have one angry voter involved in their campaigns.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby polevaultpower » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:40 pm

Related to the subject of this post (but not necessarily the content):

In the great state of Washington, my husband works as a Park Ranger. Between the nationwide poor economy and our governor going on a mad spending spree during her term in office, the state is broke. The voters of the state have taken a sharp anti-taxes turn and voted down any kind of tax increase.

We were one of the only states in the country to offer free day-use admission to our State Parks. Now the legislature has decided to completely eliminate the funding we get, and we have to make it up by charging fees. So as of yesterday, it is $10/vehicle/day to visit our parks, or you can buy a $30 annual pass. Clearly designed to steer everyone toward the pass.

Anyway, the hysterics about this are incredible. The liberals blame the conservatives who voted down all of the tax increases. The conservatives blame the governor and all of the taxpayer support illegal aliens get in our state.

I am more of a conservative/libertarian type myself. Life would be _easier_ if we still got the bulk of our revenue from the general fund, but charging for what you use seems like it should be more consistent with the conservative/libertarian crowd. So it's funny that they are complaining about it so much.

And of course the poor park staff has to take the brunt of the public's anger. The nice college girls who staff the office and check in campers have already been cussed out by random people... like they had anything to do with it!
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby tandfman » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:00 am

polevaultpower wrote: The nice college girls who staff the office and check in campers have already been cussed out by random people... like they had anything to do with it!

At least they still have jobs. In Minnesota, all of the parks are closed and the employees out of work until the pols can get the state functioning again.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby polevaultpower » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:39 pm

tandfman wrote:
polevaultpower wrote: The nice college girls who staff the office and check in campers have already been cussed out by random people... like they had anything to do with it!

At least they still have jobs. In Minnesota, all of the parks are closed and the employees out of work until the pols can get the state functioning again.


Yeah for now... I doubt this program will bring in the revenue needed. My husband has already been laid off once and there's a solid chance they could close parks and he could lose it again. But we're safe through the summer and probably into the fall.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby bad hammy » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:11 pm

bruce3404 wrote:Meanwhile, we continue to piss money away "defending the world" while our citizens live with lousy schools, a crumbling infrastructure, massive foreign debt and one of the worst health care systems in the civilized world. Bring ALL the troops home, impose a VAT and start looking at the health and social services models of other countries with higher standards of living for all.

Agree with all of that except about ALL the troops. That said, we should contract the our overall military mission to a degree that we save trillions.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby lonewolf » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:03 pm

Yes.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby El Toro » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:59 pm

It's similar to capitalists who believe in the market.....until they start losing in the market. Then it's "the government needs to do something!" :roll:
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby lonewolf » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:25 am

El Toro wrote:It's similar to capitalists who believe in the market.....until they start losing in the market. Then it's "the government needs to do something!" :roll:

Not this capitalist.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby valleyrunner » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:43 am

Back to the original point a day after the most patriotic day of the year I ask this. What is THE single MOST patriotic thing someone can do? Many say serve in the military for their country and while that is certainly very patriotic and great in all the obvious ways I say its PAY TAXES. With taxes we support the military and many more things in our country that without taxes we would enjoy. Many in the military are not in it today for patriotic reasons, but economic reasons because they can't find work elsewhere. The whole American tradition of everyone bitching about their damn taxes needs to be flipped in the PC world we live in.
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Re: Are (some) Tax Complainers Hypocritical?

Postby kuha » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:10 am

valleyrunner wrote:Back to the original point a day after the most patriotic day of the year I ask this. What is THE single MOST patriotic thing someone can do? Many say serve in the military for their country and while that is certainly very patriotic and great in all the obvious ways I say its PAY TAXES. With taxes we support the military and many more things in our country that without taxes we would enjoy. Many in the military are not in it today for patriotic reasons, but economic reasons because they can't find work elsewhere. The whole American tradition of everyone bitching about their damn taxes needs to be flipped in the PC world we live in.


I'd fully agree with this. It's not a matter of paying taxes "unquestioningly"--but simply of accepting that there is a greater, communal good that we're all responsible for (and, from which, we all benefit). The climate now is one of automatic rejection of all-things-government, any and all taxes (i.e., social responsibilities), and any true sense of our collective identify. The "government" is simply US, writ large, acting collectively. And if that's a hopeless failure, then large-scale democracy is a hopeless failure. That's a profoundly sad idea which cannot lead to a healthier society.
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