I Support Marion Jones


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I Support Marion Jones

Postby Runninghorse » Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:11 am

Few things boil my blood like watching the mentality and actions of a mob. I’m not just talking about the lynch mobs, the burn-at-the-stake mobs, the tar-and-feather mobs, but also the character assassination mobs that know little, but nevertheless go along with consensus in the systematic demolition of a person’s character. Throughout history, right up to the present, we have seen this phenomenon repeated endlessly, yet mobs never learn. Learning is for those who think and mobs don’t think. Mobs don’t question. Mobs do not sift through all evidence presented and deliberate in their own mind, independent of the injection of the thoughts and opinions of others.

Several days ago, I caught a glimpse of an Oprah show in which she demonstrated how wrong eyewitnesses can be and even descending into more inaccuracy when others suggest non-existent details of a suspect.

Such is the case with Marion Jones. Much of what I have seen posted on these boards about Marion Jones exhibits little thought and personal investigation. There is much concurrence with the collective mentality of a lynch mob itching to tear into the fleshy substance of Marion's character and reputation. Reason and hard facts be damned. Stated rules and regulations have been rendered moot. The excitement of the mob, the smell of blood intoxicates and blinds. Marion Jones has not been charged with anything - period. She is unquestionably one of the greatest female athletes that has ever walked the planet. Why is there so much glee in the air at the spectacle of Marion's demise? Something in the air smells so foul as to compromise the olfactory.

There is also something extremely unfair about the way certain governing bodies do business with respect to these athletes. All these investigations and suspicions are made public, such that even if cleared, the investigated athlete is indelibly tattooed. People will subsequently look askance at any future performances of such athlete with furrowed brow. How gross. How absolutely unfair and unjust.

Should it turn out that Marion tests positive for something, then so be it. However, in the absence of such positive results, all this innuendo and sinister remarks, so recklessly and viciously slung at this woman, are designed for one thing and one thing only - to annihilate this woman's good name and reputation.

So what she has been associated with questionable characters. So friggin what. Is this an indictable standard now? I answer emphatically “No. No. No..” A free people are free to hang out with whomever they damn well please and the simple act of association is nobody’s damn business. Okay?

I therefore stand in full and complete support of Marion Jones through this confrontation with a lynch mob especially in the absence of hard evidence of her guilt of any violations of established rule of the sport.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby Asterix » Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:40 am

That's a little melodramatic, don't you think?

Sure mobs are generally not affected by rational thought processes or much thought processes at all. But I think if you look through this particular forum you'll see that most of what is being discussed is founded on information and facts obtained from the real world (I think reputable media who don't want to pull a Jayson Blair can be reasonably used in this regard). People are informing themselves of what is out there and then coming to their own conclusions. Different people have different opinions though and they don't all necessarily co-exist happily.

<<There is also something extremely unfair about the way certain governing bodies do business with respect to these athletes. All these investigations and suspicions are made public, such that even if cleared, the investigated athlete is indelibly tattooed. People will subsequently look askance at any future performances of such athlete with furrowed brow. How gross. How absolutely unfair and unjust.>>

Now I may be proven wrong here, but have not almost all the details about investigations and suspicions of athletes become public not from the evil governing bodies but the athletes themselves? Isn't a big issue in the latest affairs the fact that USADA is strictly adhering to their privacy regulations by not releasing information willy-nilly? It is the athletes (or their lawyers/agents/coaches/miscellaneous hangers-on) who are making available official letters or supposed evidence.

<<A free people are free to hang out with whomever they damn well please and the simple act of association is nobody’s damn business. Okay?>>

Absolutely, provided you also acknowledge that a free people are free to think and discuss whatever they damn well please and the simple act of your disagreeing with their opinions is nobody's damn business to control.

We don't know if MJ is guilty of anything and I'm not even sure myself which side of the issue I believe, but I don't particularly feel you are in a position to talk down to me or others as to what can legitimately be discussed about in an open forum such as this. If board rules are violated, then censor away, but otherwise, if you don't agree with something, then prove your case.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby Mel » Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:46 am

"to annihilate this woman's good name and reputation."

She's done plenty of that on her own lately. Contradicting yourself, throwing tantrums in public, maligning the good name and reputation of the USADA while hopping around like a mad kangaroo :)....and God help us if she turns up guilty, because the "I have NEVER used drugs and have succeeded solely due to my God-given talent and hard work" line would then turn out to be a lie told a thousand times over to billions of people - much too creepily reminiscent of Florence getting on her knees and praying for all the world to see in Seoul.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby tafnut » Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:56 am

of course, you don't know what she was praying for.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby Friar » Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:03 pm

"Mobs don’t question". We are all individuals who have different thoughts about what's occured.
It's the Balco crowd that want us to have closed minds. I hope MJ is in the clear, but I see her with the same mindset as Barry Bonds.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby Mel » Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:08 pm

"of course, you don't know what she was praying for."

Clever as ever u are.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby Mel » Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:09 pm

"We are all individuals"

Just like in Life of Brian :) "I'm not!"
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby mrbowie » Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:08 pm

I think we all just have to be patient and see what the USADA comes up with.

On the face of it, the girl looks more guilty than not.

On the other hand, if the USADA really had something solid, wouldn't they have nailed her by now?

The one thing I cannot stop thinking about is the USADA investigator who couldn't tell the difference between men and women sprint times on the chart that was entitled "MJ."

Geez, even MJ (Michael Jackson) might have know better.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby RMc » Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:25 pm

I agree that we need to withhold judgement, but Jones' defense of "no positive test" is a red herring (to steal from another thread). As far as I know THG was tested for only in samples from last year. Of course, there was no THG test before last year, and BALCO was busy making substances undetectable by pre 2003 tests. When was the last time that Jones had to produce a sample while she was actually training? Given a July 2003 birthdate, I assume that was Sep 2002--long before any THG testing was done. Of course, there are no positive test results for her--she would have been clean during the period when testing occurred. In her case, guilt will have to be shown by circumstantial evidence.

As for the USADA (and is it really pronounced "U-sah-da" now?), it's case seems shaky. I can only think that Jones is trying to force USADA's hand prematurely.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby MJD » Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:55 pm

>Few things boil my blood like watching the mentality and actions of a mob.

Much better RH and I actually agree with you about her association with CF and said so publicly at the time. But I don't believe her when she says that she didn't know anything about CF. To accept that is saying that she was both completely out of touch with the world at age 11 or 12 and then she didn't learn anything at all about the recent history of her chosen profession at a later date. Neither is credible to me. I know I picked up the odd book and newspaper at that age and generally knew what was going on in the world around me and I imagine you did too. So these kind of statements make my radar go up. Can't get her on that obviously so I just want it all to play out. Even if you think that the media and posters are like a lynch mob, none of that matters. I assume that USADA knows what they are doing as far as procedure goes and that is all that will be relevant.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby mojo » Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:45 pm

I don't think it's possible to "support" or not support Marion. We don't now what the full story is.
I do think she has told some lies- not knowing about CF is one, not admitting her full relationship with BALCO. he keeps saying I have not tested positive- but then she has also said she has NEVER taken illegal substances.
If she is s=-guilty then all her protestations will really come back to kaunt her. If she is innocent then all this distraction (and she brought some on herself) will make any track achievments she has that much more amazing.
So I think alot of people are waiting and not willing to throw their support behind Marion until this is all cleared up. Past events has turned us all into cynics I guess!
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby Oldtimer » Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:10 pm

> But I don't believe her when she says that
she didn't know anything about CF. To accept that is saying that she was both completely out of touch with the world at age 11 or 12 and then she didn't learn anything at all about the recent history of her chosen profession at a later date.>

Even if she didn't know anything about Charlie Francis, everybody surrounding Marion, especially her manager, Charlie Wells, certainly knew of CF's exploits. To say she wasn't up to speed with CF's history would be ludicrous.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby RMc » Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:00 pm

Even if she
>didn't know anything about Charlie Francis, everybody surrounding Marion,
>especially her manager, Charlie Wells, certainly knew of CF's exploits. To say
>she wasn't up to speed with CF's history would be ludicrous.

Either that, or she's so incredibly gullible by those surrounding her that she believes everything they tell her, including "there's nothing illegal in these substances..."
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby Jizzmo » Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:33 am

T&F should learn from Baseball, etc.. and let the athletes "Do what they do" and keep it on the downlow and look the other way. Look at Baseball and all the home runs, they learned that's what people want to see.
If my some miracle we are able to rid ourselves all the doping athletes then the records on the books will last forever, no way a clean woman sprinter can come close to Flojo etc.. We'll have to have pre-clean records and clean records.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby RMc » Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:39 am

>T&F should learn from Baseball, etc.. and let the athletes "Do what they do"
>and keep it on the downlow and look the other way. Look at Baseball and all
>the home runs, they learned that's what people want to see.
If my some
>miracle we are able to rid ourselves all the doping athletes then the records
>on the books will last forever, no way a clean woman sprinter can come close to
>Flojo etc.. We'll have to have pre-clean records and clean records.

What distinguishes T&F from the American pro sports is that those running the sport actually still have some morals left. No they aren't perfect, but they do try to muddle through and do the right thing. On the other hand, the commissioners for baseball, football and basketball clearly and obviously are always making financial calculations every single time they open their mouths. The question is whether we want our sport to foresake the fundamental premise of our sport to increase the financial gain that will accrue to a few elite athletes and meet promoters?
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby Asterix » Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:49 am

<<Look at Baseball and all the home runs, they learned that's what people want to see.>>

And a 7% decline in attendance over three years is a good thing?
http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/2000 ... ndance.htm
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby basehead617 » Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:07 am

>T&F should learn from Baseball, etc.. and let the athletes "Do what they do"
>and keep it on the downlow and look the other way. Look at Baseball and all
>the home runs, they learned that's what people want to see.
If my some
>miracle we are able to rid ourselves all the doping athletes then the records
>on the books will last forever, no way a clean woman sprinter can come close to
>Flojo etc.. We'll have to have pre-clean records and clean records.


thats an easy first-thought position to take, but i think what differentiates t&f at least to a degree, to me, is the skills are tested in their barest form. taking steroids won't immediately make you a better baseball player, but it probably will immediately make you a faster, better sprinter, or a more powerful shot putter.

when the skills are tested in such a base form, and you're taking frequently dangerous substances that simply improve these test performances over say the outdoor track season, it seems a bit different than a baseball player's set of skills being tested in a season to me. this goes for many other sports too.

i'm not saying there's a huge disconnect, but i don't think they're exactly of a kind.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby highjumpsteve » Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:24 am

I believe that MJ is innocent, completely.

Some things are too personal for us to ever know, but I think her marriage ended once CJ got nabbed. She probably did not know abour him because he hid it from her.

So put aside guilt by association due to her former marriage.

Of more importance, looking at her career and its progression, drug use just does not fit in the picture. She's no top rate sprinter that all of a sudden got significantly better, a la some deaceased lady we all know about. Instead, she was an early young phenom, took off some years to play basketball, then came back older amd naturally better due to more age, experience, and training. And as good as she is, she's not that unbelievably good, running other-wordly times, she's merely the best runner out there, running what would be naturally-progressed WR or near WR times. Her performances are a lot less "ahead of the curve than say, the other MJ. Just proves how good the male MJ is, and the female MJ is a step down from him.

And look at her.... no ripped-looking muscles like that deceased lady, no East German-like strength. Just a great gal that can run like crazy that picked a poor husband.

Last but not least call me naive or whatever, but her public statements, demeanor, etc. have a complete ring of sincerity, at least to me.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby basehead617 » Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:38 am

i vaguely agree hj, but what about Tim Montgomery?

moreover, do you think that the balco related documents were forgeries? clearly they are *meant* to refer to her, using MJ and M.Jones along with references to Tim, CJ, and Trevor and many single letter abbreviations referring to unknown substances. She has already said none of the documents refer to her, which means she's not bringing up the possibility that they are legit but the letters are not illegal substances. These are the same letters that refer to substances which got Kelli White (so far) to admit. Basically MJ is flat out accusing BALCO of making them up at this point.. do you think that makes sense? I could see them being produced now, if Conte figured the bigger the fish he got the more likely he'd be to avoid jail time with his help -- if he just produced the documents lately as 'oh we found these lying around' that would be suspicious - but these were among those SEIZED UNEXPECTEDLY, right? not provided.

i think if you believe MJ is innocent now you have to believe most of some 50 pages of documentation are forgeries and that someone was trying to frame her and knew BALCO would be raided.

I think for a trial, the evidence should have more unassailable corroboration, but for our purposes here, i think one must come up with some explanations for what's been brought out to the public and the press..
Last edited by basehead617 on Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby highjumpsteve » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:11 pm

basehead, I cannot refute any of what you say, and it's obvious you've learned more about this whole mess than I have. So I'll just naively hope I'm right. Assuming all you said is accurate and I'm sure it is, that sure is quite a lot of smoke.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby Mel » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:18 pm

"I believe that MJ is innocent, completely."

Well not completely. She has lied about a few things, that much she is guilty of. Anyway, your optimism is admirable, do you include fishing among your hobbies? :)
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby JZed » Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:48 pm

>I believe that MJ is innocent, completely.

Some things are too personal
>for us to ever know, but I think her marriage ended once CJ got nabbed. She
>probably did not know abour him because he hid it from her.

So put aside
>guilt by association due to her former marriage.

Of more importance, looking
>at her career and its progression, drug use just does not fit in the picture.
>She's no top rate sprinter that all of a sudden got significantly better, a la
>some deaceased lady we all know about. Instead, she was an early young
>phenom, took off some years to play basketball, then came back older amd
>naturally better due to more age, experience, and training. And as good as she
>is, she's not that unbelievably good, running other-wordly times, she's merely
>the best runner out there, running what would be naturally-progressed WR or
>near WR times. Her performances are a lot less "ahead of the curve than say,
>the other MJ. Just proves how good the male MJ is, and the female MJ is a step
>down from him.

And look at her.... no ripped-looking muscles like that
>deceased lady, no East German-like strength. Just a great gal that can run
>like crazy that picked a poor husband.

Last but not least call me naive or
>whatever, but her public statements, demeanor, etc. have a complete ring of
>sincerity, at least to me.

Why, I wouldn't think of calling you naive or even whatever. If you believe that Marion Jones is completely "innocent", why then that does it! Now I have a nice bridge for sale that spans the East River between Manhattan and Brooklyn.....
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby Friar » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:10 pm

From MJ's book: "She married the hulking Hunter, whom she met when he was an assistant track coach at UNC, largely because he shared her sense of being a wary outsider.
"It was me against the world. And that's how C.J. was. He was a natural rebel," she writes.

Jones reveals that she cultivates paranoia as a motivational tool.
Here's a secret," she writes. "I still use the mind game. Nowadays, it's easier to come up with these scenarios, since I know how certain athletes feel about me. Before a race when I run now, I might be thinking, 'They don't like me. I know they're jealous of me."
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby Mel » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:31 pm

"And look at her.... no ripped-looking muscles like that deceased lady, no East German-like strength."

I couldn't disagree more. I stopped believing in her "innocence" when I saw her on tv during the Sydney Olympics. Massive muscular legs and buttocks, extremely imposing physique, cut right in the mold of some other sprinters of yore.

I think your description would be much more fitting for Evelyn Ashford.
Last edited by Mel on Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby marknhj » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:53 pm

I saw her from about 2m. away at both Mt Sac and Carson. I told my friend, who had never seen her before, that she was built like a "brick s***house". To my surprise when you're close to her she isn't at all (now?).
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Re: I Support Marion Jones

Postby Mel » Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:18 pm

"To my surprise when you're close to her she isn't at all (now?)."

I noticed less muscle mass in photos of her from indoors and out this year. Palpable difference. And not just in appearance.
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A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby Runninghorse » Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:33 pm

A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion
By WILLIAM C. RHODEN

Published: June 20, 2004

DICK POUND, I suspect, has a vendetta against Marion Jones. I also suspect that Pound is conducting a witch hunt.

"Prove it," you demand.

Normally I would.

But in the spirit of Pound's brave new world of drug testing, I don't need proof. Suspicion will suffice.

In fact, who really knows if Pound, chairman of the World Anti-Doping Agnecy, has a vendetta or is conducting a witch hunt. The point is that the world and United States anti-doping agencies have created an atmosphere in which mere suspicion is sufficient to declare an athlete guilty. ..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/20/sport ... 0RHOD.html

-------------------
As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, "witch hunt" is the proper terminology of what is going on against Marion Jones.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/20/sport ... 0RHOD.html
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby Friar » Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:06 pm

I'm playing "Witchy woman" [by the Eagles] as I read the thread. The fact that you are posting on a THG Crisis board says something, doesn't it?
*Times decided to print a more realistic view.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/20/sport ... 0WADL.html
Last edited by Friar on Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby WalkandJog » Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:53 pm

O.K., here goes my admittedly very very controversial opinion, but I think a lot of people will probably agree with me: it's about time we weeded out the cheats. Ever since FloJo miraculously transformed herself from a mediocre sprinter who was merely average for years (YEARS, mind you), into a completely different physique that looked chemically-induced to obliterate world records that are blatantly questionable for a normal female, I've been disillusioned by the state of the sport. I mean, FloJo wasn't even on the radar screen among the elite sprinters while she competed for many years in the sport. It was sad because obviously honest sprinters such as Evelyn Ashford were eclipsed by such sensational performances, and it seemed like an enormous injustice to reward what looked like a blatant drug cheat (FloJo).

Now, finally, we are getting some progress on nailing drug cheats. Maybe Jones felt that the only way she could approach FloJo's super-human world records was to follow the same corrupt route. Lord knows she wasn't even close at the height of her speed. I think the fastest she ran was between 10.6 and 10.7 and I think FloJo's record is a little under 10.5.

There's no doubt that Jones is naturally very quick, and the record shows that she has progressed at a naturally believable rate ever since she was a high school star, battling Inger Miller for state titles and so forth.

Perhaps she was dabbling with the idea of making the plunge into drug use in order to make history, because it looks like FloJo got away with it before her, and it was the only realistic way she would be able to run faster than FloJo's bionic world records. It was pretty clear that Jones would never be able to break those records naturally, and maybe she was searching for some solution outside of herself (look at her association with Francis, for example).

My assessment is that Balco got busted right at the juncture when she was seriously considering cheating with drugs. Probably Montgomery was egging her on with his own personal example of success using THG (his world 100 record), and the real question is whether she had already started taking steroids before the BALCO bust. It looks to me like she hadn't started taking anything illegal due to her lack of any drastic improvement. She seems to have peaked a few years ago.

Perhaps the BALCO bust is a blessing in disguise for Jones in the long run, making it extremely clear to her that drug use is not an option, regardless of who got away with it in the past. That is, if Jones isn't busted with circumstantial evidence by USADA for alleged steroid use when all of the dust settles, and she is allowed to continue with her stellar career.

I think most people roll their eyes in skepticism when they think of FloJo's world records. I hope the heat Marion feels right now will have prevented her from selling her soul to the steroid devil, even if it means she'll never beat those questionable world records. Sorry if I've offended anyone, but I think a lot of people share my politically incorrect opinion about FloJo and those records.
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby Pego » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:29 am

You are entitled to your opinions. What you (and all other MJ's accusers)don't have is evidence.
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby Sprintstatman » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:58 am

>Ever since FloJo miraculously transformed herself from a mediocre sprinter who was merely average for years (YEARS, mind you),

It really is time people stopped perpetuating this myth. Flo-Jo was WORLD CLASS for years before 1988. Here's her progression:

81 - 11.23/22.81/22/61w (ran 4x1 for US at WP)
82 - 11.12/22.39/22.23w (NCAA 200m champ)
83 - 11.06/10.96w/22.23/50.94 (4th WC 200m)
84 - 10.99/22.04 (2nd OG 200m)
85 - 11.00/22.46
86 - 11.42/23.51
87 - 10.96/21.96/21.7w (2nd WC 200m 1st 4x1)

She had an OG medal and two WC medals plus a fourth place. She was not average. This is not to defend her - dramatic improvement from an already world class base is more suspicious than dramatic improvement from a hitherto mediocre athlete who may simply not have been taking training seriously.
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby Mel » Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:08 am

"I mean, FloJo wasn't even on the radar screen among the elite sprinters while she competed for many years in the sport."

Really, without reiterating the stats just put out for you in plain view above, you should refrain from making such painfully stupid comments. She was second best on the planet in the 84 OG and in the 87 WC. Clearly your radar is about as technologically current as Windows 3.1 :)
Last edited by Mel on Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby WalkandJog » Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:21 pm

LOL. I stand corrected for my hyperbole about the terms "mediocre" and not being on the radar screen. Yet even looking at the above posted times in the years prior to her world records, one cannot possibly believe that such a dramatic performance improvement of half a second over 100 meters and similar improvement over 200 is kosher, after years of running consistently slower, as shown in the posted times. She always seemed for years like someone perpetually chasing Ashford's heels, and then she made a suspicious quantum leap that defies any kosher explanation. My main point was that it looks like blatant drug use, for which she never got caught, and I think that's the obvious elephant in the living room that no one wants to talk about. The improvement from around 11 in the 100 to under 10.5 is outrageously suspect.
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby hj197steve » Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:32 am

let's not beat that "sub 10.5" drum though. It was clearly a bogus wind aided time. Haviong said that I think she was a big-time user.
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby RMc » Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:15 am

>let's not beat that "sub 10.5" drum though. It was clearly a bogus wind
>aided time. Haviong said that I think she was a big-time user.

Well, her 10.61 was legit, and that's still almost 0.4 seconds....
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby Runninghorse » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:36 am

>I'm playing "Witchy woman" [by the Eagles] as I read the thread. The fact
>t that you are posting on a THG Crisis board says something, doesn't it?

>*Times decided to print a more realistic
>view.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/20/sport ... 0WADL.html
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Hmmmmm. I see you hanging around this board also.
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby Runninghorse » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:39 am

>LOL. I stand corrected for my hyperbole about the terms "mediocre" and not
>being on the radar screen. Yet even looking at the above posted times in the
>years prior to her world records, one cannot possibly believe that such a
>dramatic performance improvement of half a second over 100 meters and similar
>improvement over 200 is kosher, after years of running consistently slower, as
>shown in the posted times. She always seemed for years like someone perpetually
>chasing Ashford's heels, and then she made a suspicious quantum leap that
>defies any kosher explanation. My main point was that it looks like blatant
>drug use, for which she never got caught, and I think that's the obvious
>elephant in the living room that no one wants to talk about. The improvement
>from around 11 in the 100 to under 10.5 is outrageously suspect.
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That is simply untrue. Bob Beamon went from a 26 foot jumper to 29. Back in 68, I doubt if one could attribute that to drugs OR altitude (a racist theory).
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby Mel » Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:31 am

<<let's not beat that "sub 10.5" drum though. It was clearly a bogus wind aided time.>

"JJK: I know there was some wind. Not the zero-wind that was posted. Do I think it was over 2.0m/s? Yes."

from Jon's interview with JJK at:

http://www.athleticslinks.com/aotm_jjk.html

I was fascinated to read Flo's sister-in-law stating that she "knows". After all, she was THERE, and out of respect for the deceased family member I would expect her to be inclined to say as little as possible anything which would call into question any of Florence's achievements.
Last edited by Mel on Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby Dutra » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:18 am

With the, possibly accurate, leaps being made regarding Marion Jones' 'associations' I find it odd that Flo Jo is generally ripped to shreds for her never proven drug use and yet the fairly obvious 'associations' that were around her are never mentioned.
Last edited by Dutra on Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Witch Hunt Beyond a Reasonable Suspicion

Postby RMc » Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:09 pm

---------------------
That is simply untrue. Bob
>Beamon went from a 26 foot jumper to 29. Back in 68, I doubt if one could
>attribute that to drugs OR altitude (a racist theory).

Beamon went from the low 27s to 29-2. His performance WAS attributed to both the altitude (as was Robert Emmiman's 29 footer) AND the 2.0 mps wind. Because field events are generally "one-off" efforts with little or no intermediate measures by time or against other competitors, such "discontinuities" are to be expected in that set of events vs. the track events.
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