Greatest Athletes of the Century....your thoughts??

[Guest]

who is forgotten possibly because he never went to the olympics due to world war 2 is cornelius warmerdam. he was possibly the greatest pole vaulter of all time. the first to break the 15' barrier. he did it on bamboo and did it 43 times and had raised the world record to 15-9 before anyone else jumped 15' even once. it took untill the steal pole came out for his record to fall. he was dominant for a long time and if he vaulted today he would show bubka what was up.

[Guest]

>In his era he was a heavy; if you are doing this
>on an all-time basis, none of the older
>heavyweights (Dempsey, Louis, Tunney, Marciano,
>etc) would be considered heavyweights nowadays.
>According to that statement, you would be pretty
>much (save Carnero and a couple more) looking at
>heavys from the 60s - now.

Over 190 lbs is a heavyweight....Louis,Dempsey, and Tunney were over 190lbs a good portion of their career's.Not Shorty,don't think he ever weighed 190lbs..If you want to keep arguing about this how about going somewhere else to do it.This is T&F,remember.

[parkerclay]

You call yourself the boxing guru..maybe you oughta take this somewhere else

[Guest]

>You call yourself the boxing guru..maybe you
>oughta take this somewhere else

Don't get angry because Marciano was a cream puff...

[parkerclay]

Say what you want..he's still the only undefeated heavyweight champion in boxing history!!

[Guest]

Big deal....take a look at his opponents..bums or old men that gave him a hard time.

[Guest]

Forget heavyweights since you can't seem to separate heavys from the past from modern day big heavys like Frazier, Ali, Liston, Tyson, Lewis (superheavy in my book), Holyfield, etc., How does Marciano compare to fighters his size 180-190? Everyone will agree that RJJ is better. Is it safe to say that he's the 2nd greatest 180-195 lb fighter ever?

[billthedog]

It never occurred to me that a single sport athlete such as a boxer would be the "greatest" of the century so there has been a lot of drivel here. There is no real doubt that Jackie Robinson was the greatest. Excelled at football, basketball, track, tennis, golf, not to mention baseball.

[Guest]

Jackie was a great all-arounder but I don't know if he's the best. Jim Thorpe excelled at multiple sports at the highest level. Robinson didn't have the talent to play in the NBA; not sure about the NFL. He was a very good long jumper and a very good baseball player. Thorpe was a great running back and a great track star. Was Jackie as good as all-arounder as a Rafer, Mathias or Daley Thompson?

[Guest]

>Forget heavyweights since you can't seem to
>separate heavys from the past from modern day big
>heavys like Frazier, Ali, Liston, Tyson, Lewis
>(superheavy in my book), Holyfield, etc., How
>does Marciano compare to fighters his size
>180-190? Everyone will agree that RJJ is better.
>Is it safe to say that he's the 2nd greatest
>180-195 lb fighter ever?

Dude, we need to stick to track.

BTW, Roy Jones would fall apart if he ever had to fight anyone decent. He's ducked almost every decent fighter the last 5 years or more - only fighting guys that WERE decent, but were on their way out. He reeks. His "win" in his heavyweight debut was figured out on the judges' cards before the bell rang for the first round. Another media creation, courtesy HBO.

Jim Thorpe was great in his day, but it's tough to compare him to modern, well conditioned athletes.

[Guest]

>Forget heavyweights since you can't seem to
>separate heavys from the past from modern day big
>heavys like Frazier, Ali, Liston, Tyson, Lewis
>(superheavy in my book), Holyfield, etc., How
>does Marciano compare to fighters his size
>180-190? Everyone will agree that RJJ is better.
>Is it safe to say that he's the 2nd greatest
>180-195 lb fighter ever?


Why do you think Liston and Ali are from the modern era and Marciano is the old era?Liston was fighting professionally as a heavyweight when Marcaino was champ..Ali's first pro fight was just 4 yrs after Marcaino retired...Frazier turned pro just 8 yrs after Marciano retired...Foreman 12 yrs..They are the same era...If you were talking about Corbett or Fritsimmons,I would agree competely different era..Marcaino was a freak in my opinion..A HW with a 68 in reach...Most middleweights have a longer reach than that...I think that was a major disadvantage for him..He was too easy to hit and cut..For a guy with a 68 in reach that was 180 lb he was great..He was great at 180 lbs period..But the great big guy beats the great little guy every time...I'm also not totally convinced about his chin..He maybe had a iron jaw but never fought a really big puncher to prove it..Look at Ali, he took the best from Liston,Foreman,Lyle,Shavers and Frazier without being KOd..Maybe Marcaino had a chin like that but there's no proof of it.I do find it funny you think Marcaino was one of the greatest HW of alltime but couldn't beat Roy Jones Jr.

[billthedog]

Thorpe is surely a legitimate contender. Mathias played football -- for a Rose Bowl team, indeed -- and baketball, I think, in high school. Johnson probably could have done anything and maybe Thompson too, but they (and Mathias) were basically track and field athletes. I'll stick with Robinson. I wouldn't be so sure about the NBA, by the way. In his years he was better than anybody else in the PCC.

[Guest]

I'm not sure anyone under 220 could beat Roy Jones. The way I look at it boxing in the 60's started a whole new era of bigger champions, better fighters and more $. Look at the fighters..Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Norton, Ali, etc. A whole new breed of fighting began then. There have been several different eras in boxing; I think the mid-90's started a new era, the superheavy era - Golota, Bowe, Klitschko bros, Lewis, etc.

[Guest]

Here are some other great all-arounders: CB Fry (pro cricket & long jump world record), Seve Bobrov (played for Russian national hockey and soccer team), Bob Hayes, Deion Sanders, Ernie Nevers, Gareth Edwards (rugby, track), Eric Heiden (cycling, speed skating), Lionel Conacher, Bo Jackson and let's not forget the greatest athlete of the 19th century Donald Dinnie (track, weightlifting and wrestling)

[Guest]

Gareth Edwards ran track? I didn't know that, what event? Off home in a sec to watch repeat of England duffing up Australia at rugby last weekend!

[Guest]

He set an English record in the 200 yard hurdles.

[Guest]

That's odd, since he's Welsh!

[Guest]

A Welsh or British record...close enough

[Guest]

Pardon me but there is a huge difference to us Brits (English, Scottish, Welsh & N. Irish). An analogy would be if a Scot won the heavyweight championship we English would be proud of him as a Brit; if he lost horribly he'd be a useless Scotsman! (Lennox is a bit tricky, almost had to be re-classified as a Canadian on Saturday).

Seriously though, what record did he have? Not doubting you a la Sprintman, I'm just curious. Was it a HS one? He was a great rugby player, possibly the best ever. However, here's another piece of trivia...he's a fisherman and used to also hold the British Pike record, 45Lb 6oz (I think) in about 1989.

[Guest]

(Lennox is a bit tricky, almost had to
>be re-classified as a Canadian on
>Saturday).>>

You mean like the way Ben Johnson went from being the pride of Canada to a scummy Jamaican immigrant?

Guess Rusedski got reclassified yesterday at Wimbledon too, right?

[Guest]

>(Lennox is a bit tricky, almost had to
>be
>re-classified as a Canadian
>on
>Saturday).>>

You mean like the way Ben
>Johnson went from being the pride of Canada to a
>scummy Jamaican immigrant?

Guess Rusedski got
>reclassified yesterday at Wimbledon too, right?

Yep...you got it! I don't think Rusedski has been accepted like Lennox though, probably because he's never won anything. Mind you, at least Lennox was born in the UK and lived there until he was 12. I've watched that fight 3 times now and think Lennox would have wacked Klitscho within another two rounds. Hope Mr. Boxing Guru isn't reading this and we're subjected to yet another history lesson and how useless Lennox is.

[Guest]

Jim Thorpe hands down. Probably the most naturally all around gifted athlete ever.

[Guest]

Best female? Babe Didrikson, I guess. But who is the greatest active female? Everybody seems to be even more specialized these days. I'm still impressed that Dragila used to do rodeo events!

[Guest]

One more thing...I remember the time that NBC had televised some kind of little dinner for the athletes during one of the first World Champs and they went around the table asking people like Carl Lewis about their favorite athletes. They got to John Walker, and he replied, "Secretariat".

[Guest]

Marion Jones is a great all-arounder as is Canadian Hayley Wickenhaiser, who represents Canada in both hockey and soccer.

[billthedog]

>Jim Thorpe hands down. Probably the most
>naturally all around gifted athlete ever.
You rerally sure that he'a better than Robinson? Did he ever try tennis or golf?
Bill Allen