Legalize Drugs

[mrbowie]

I am writing as a guy that has never smoked a joint or ingested any recreational drug, and as a probation counselor for 5 years in the 1960s.

Government's attempts to control the traffic, sale and use of drugs is a completely failure and a very costly one as well.

Legalizing drugs would serve to eliminate drug pushers and save governments and taxpayers gazillions of dollars by not having to prosecute sellers and offenders and keep them in costly prisons.

Governments cannot police morality. Prohibition proved that to be the case.

[pickle47]

Every law is an attempt to police morality at some level.

[TN1965]

Murder, rape, theft, etc. have direct victims. Drug consumption does not.

If other people want to screw themselves with marijuana, tobbacco, or alcohol, that's none of my business.

If other people try to steal my property or harm my body, that's an entirely different matter.

I don't want the government to ban acts that only hurt oneself. The government should ban only acts that hurt other people.

[Marlow]

Legalizing drugs would serve to eliminate drug pushers and save governments and taxpayers gazillions of dollars by not having to prosecute sellers and offenders and keep them in costly prisons.

Legalizing drugs would serve to legitimize their use (literally), thereby bringing great misery to the families whose lives are dragged down the drain with the users.

I have yet to hear a sensible answer to the question: why do people need to alter their consciousness to 'pursue happiness'? If the answer is 'they don't' then we need to ask ourselves, would the world be a better place w/o ANY rec drugs or alcohol? If the answer is 'they do', that's just sad.

BTW, I refer only to habitual users of either, which are the ones that create all the familial misery.

[TN1965]

I have yet to hear a sensible answer to the question: why do people need to alter their consciousness to 'pursue happiness'? If the answer is 'they don't' then we need to ask ourselves, would the world be a better place w/o ANY rec drugs or alcohol? If the answer is 'they do', that's just sad.

BTW, I refer only to habitual users of either, which are the ones that create all the familial misery.

My answer to the first question is: not all of us do. (For example, I don't. I have got drunk only once. After that, I realized it's not worth it.)

But some people believe they do. Would the world be a better place if we are not allowed to do things that only hurt ourselves? No.

As for familial misery, there are many things that cause it other than alcohol and drug. If a father gest addicted to Internet, and stops going to work, he will bring serious misery to his family. Should Internet also be banned?

[Marlow]

Should Internet also be banned?

The internet's explicit purpose is not to alter our consciousness and dull our senses (tho it often does!)

[kuha]

I have yet to hear a sensible answer to the question: why do people need to alter their consciousness to 'pursue happiness'?

You cited the evidence of history on one of the other religion threads. I'd suggest that there is thousands of years worth of chemical "enhancement" clearly evident in human history. To the question "why?" the apparent answer is "because we are human, all too human."

[Marlow]

we are human, all too human."

That 'too' says it all. So apparently we will never rise above our animalistic nature?

[kuha]

we are human, all too human."

That 'too' says it all. So apparently we will never rise above our animalistic nature?

"Rise above...our nature"? By definition, no, we cannot. What we CAN do is expand and maximize the virtues of our "nature" and minimize the reptilian brain aspects of the same. But we are an organic part of the natural whole and thus inherently limited. No great surpise there...

[lovetorun]

Just a suggestion to ponder for TN1965...whenever an individual hurts themselves, it is inevitable that others suffer.

[jazzcyclist]

When Prohibition went into effect, initially there was a sharp decline in consumption for obvious reasons, but within six months, consumption returned to its previous levels once the bootleggers were up and running.

[Pego]

Legalizing drugs would serve to eliminate drug pushers and save governments and taxpayers gazillions of dollars by not having to prosecute sellers and offenders and keep them in costly prisons.

Legalizing drugs would serve to legitimize their use (literally), thereby bringing great misery to the families whose lives are dragged down the drain with the users.

I have yet to hear a sensible answer to the question: why do people need to alter their consciousness to 'pursue happiness'? If the answer is 'they don't' then we need to ask ourselves, would the world be a better place w/o ANY rec drugs or alcohol? If the answer is 'they do', that's just sad.

BTW, I refer only to habitual users of either, which are the ones that create all the familial misery.

I drink, Marlow. All my adult life (from the teens, actually). I never hurt anybody, my family never suffered because of it, I never drank when working and never drove drunk. Am I a "habitual" user? It depends on a definition.

You ask why. I like it. The taste, the "buzz", yes, even the silliness of the experience. It is sad? Fine, feel sorry for me, if you must.

Now, let me get personal. When a few posters from this message board got together in that Eugene hotel room, only you and my wife did not drink. You did not show the slightest distress over our behavior.

[Marlow]

Now, let me get personal. When a few posters from this message board got together in that Eugene hotel room, only you and my wife did not drink. You did not show the slightest distress over our behavior.

You are not the target demographic. I have no problem with f'real social drinkers. I have an enormous problem with 'social drinkers' who binge and think they're in control of their faculties.

[Pego]

Now, let me get personal. When a few posters from this message board got together in that Eugene hotel room, only you and my wife did not drink. You did not show the slightest distress over our behavior.

You are not the target demographic. I have no problem with f'real social drinkers. I have an enormous problem with 'social drinkers' who binge and think they're in control of their faculties.

Perhaps, but if you illegitimize it for "problem drinkers", it will be illegal for me, too. That is the problem with sweeping generalizations.

[Marlow]

if you illegitimize it for "problem drinkers", it will be illegal for me, too. That is the problem with sweeping generalizations.

I'm not THAT naive (to try and bring back Prohibition). I wear my anti-alcoholism/drug emotions on my sleeve, because of several incidents in the Navy, where I was responsible for several young men and women who made some bad decisions regarding their use. There were several fatalities, many ruined families and careers. I felt as though I had not done everything in my power to 'educate' them better about abuse. Perhaps I should NOT take it personally, but I do. Now I take every opportunity with my students to talk (not preach, which never works anyway) about the dangers. I'm sorry if my rants seem directed to anyone here who CAN take responsibility for their actions; I seem to have met too many people who couldn't.

[TN1965]

Just a suggestion to ponder for TN1965...whenever an individual hurts themselves, it is inevitable that others suffer.

I don't agree with "whenever" and "inevitable" part of this. Others sometimes do suffer. When they do, I want them to tell me how they suffer from my act and why they want me to stop it. I don't want the government to ban it just because the identical act by someone else would cause suffering on his/her family or friends.

[Flumpy]

I have yet to hear a sensible answer to the question: why do people need to alter their consciousness to 'pursue happiness'?

There is a completeely sensible and entirely obvious reason why people choose to do this.....

IT'S LOADS OF FUN!!!

[Marlow]

I have yet to hear a sensible answer to the question: why do people need to alter their consciousness to 'pursue happiness'?

There is a completeely sensible and entirely obvious reason why people choose to do this.....
IT'S LOADS OF FUN!!!

Not for those who have to suffer from the immoderate effects of the 'fun'-seekers. Alcoholics and druggies think they are living their lives in a vacuum ('victimless crime' is a complete fantasy).

[Flumpy]

That's because you're taking about the tiny monority of recreational drug users who do cause problems for wider society. The vast majority will have fun at the wekend and then go back to work on Monday morning with no ill effects towards anyone. Taking drugs is not the same thing as being a drug addict.

You may as well complain about the effects of cars or dogs. Millions of people own both and sometimes others may be affected by them, but no one thinks they should be banned.

[JRM]

You may as well complain about the effects of cars or dogs.

Or guns.

[mump boy]

You may as well complain about the effects of cars or dogs.

Or guns.

but guns ONLY purpose is to hurt other people

[Flumpy]

Where as the only purpose of recreational drugs is to enable people to enjoy themselves.