You can't make this stuff up

[jazzcyclist]

This is a real political TV commercial. What does it say about the electorate that this ad is aimed at?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqnjzONr ... r_embedded

[Marlow]

and she needs expertise in automatic weapons because . . . ?

[altho if you watch her in rapid-fire with the pistol, she is spraying shots everywhere as she attempts to keep firing thru the kickbacks]

that is indeed a VERY disturbing commercial

[kuha]

Mind-blowingly disgraceful.

[lonewolf]

This is a real political TV commercial. What does it say about the electorate that this ad is aimed at?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqnjzONr ... r_embedded

Hey, this is a political commercial and it says to me the candidate knows her constituency.

[jazzcyclist]

For the record, the Second Amendment is one of the issues where I split with my liberal brethren, and I used to own a federal firearms license, but I would be insulted if a politician tried to pander to me in such an unsophisticated way.

[lonewolf]

For the record, the Second Amendment is one of the issues where I split with my liberal brethren, and I used to own a federal firearms license, but I would be insulted if a politician tried to pander to me in such an unsophisticated way.

C'mon, Jazz, all politics is pandering. I am insulted by practically every political commercial I see. Besides, she is not worried about insulting you. You cannot vote in Arizona and 75% ( or some such number) of her state agrees with her.

[jazzcyclist]

Besides, she is not worried about insulting you. You cannot vote in Arizona and 75% ( or some such number) of her state agrees with her.

I may not live in Arizona, but I would think that she wouldn't want to use an issue that we agree on to actually decrease the chances that somebody like me would vote for her. A while back there was a local Black politician who was running for office and who I was considering voting for until one day I heard one of his ads on a Black/R&B radio station in which the voice was speaking in Ebonics. After hearing that, there was no way I would vote for him. I feel the same way about Ms. Gorman's ad.

[lonewolf]

Apples and oranges, jazz.
I understand you being turned off by the ebonics pandering. I was born and reared as what many/most sophisticates would dismiss as "red neck" but I have been to the city and know a genuine "good old boy" when I hear one. It grates on me when a city slicker tries to be country.

I surmise that that politician, or his advisors, rightly or wrongly, concluded it would appeal to more voters than it offended. Did it?
I'll wager Ms Gorman "counted the house" before making that commercial.

[jazzcyclist]

I surmise that that politician, or his advisors, rightly or wrongly, concluded it would appeal to more voters than it offended. Did it?
I'll wager Ms Gorman "counted the house" before making that commercial.

I guess we'll find out on election day whether or not Ms. Gorman read her constituency correctly, but I'm sure you know that politicians shoot themselves in the foot all the time. Recenetly, an opponent of South Carolina's Indian-American gubernatorial candidate Nikki Haley thought he could do some damage to her when he said "We've already got a raghead in the White House, we don't need another raghead in the governor's mansion." It turns out that he was wrong, and on election day we found out that even the good ole boys who vote in South Carolina's Republican primaries were turned off by that comment.

[Pego]

Apples and oranges, jazz.
I understand you being turned off by the ebonics pandering. I was born and reared as what many/most sophisticates would dismiss as "red neck" but I have been to the city and know a genuine "good old boy" when I hear one. It grates on me when a city slicker tries to be country.

I surmise that that politician, or his advisors, rightly or wrongly, concluded it would appeal to more voters than it offended. Did it?
I'll wager Ms Gorman "counted the house" before making that commercial.

You are right, of course. The appeal to a mob mentality has been a time-honored tradition from all far ends of the political spectrum. Sound bites work a lot better than a coherent policy proposal.

[Daisy]

Sound bites work a lot better than a coherent policy proposal.

Does she have a coherent policy proposal too?

[odelltrclan]

Being from Arizona and a conservative, I can say that this ad is a bit over the top for me. What the crap does the ability to fire a gun (which seems to be her strongest selling point) do to make me believe I should vote for you? People may remember her just because of this and maybe on her small budget, that is all she is after -- name recognition.

[kuha]

Being from Arizona and a conservative, I can say that this ad is a bit over the top for me. What the crap does the ability to fire a gun (which seems to be her strongest selling point) do to make me believe I should vote for you?

Exactly. If all political matters were settled at the OK corral, that MIGHT be a persuasive selling point. Luckily, however, our political system hasn't quite devolved to that level. Spraying bullets in the desert may unleash some positive emotion in the reptilian brain of some viewers, but it hasn't a thing to do with leadership.

[Conor Dary]

Wow, where have you guys been? You make it sound like this is some kind of one-off. Maybe not as blatant but this is basically preview of what the Republican party is becoming. For example here is Nevada Republican Senate nominee Sharron Angle:

"You know, our Founding Fathers, they put that Second Amendment in there for a good reason, and that was for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. And in fact Thomas Jefferson said, it's good for a country to have a revolution every 20 years," Angle said. "I hope that's not where we're going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying, my goodness, what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you, the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010 ... hp?ref=fpb

Rep. Michelle Bachmann in Minnesota has said similar things, calling for a 'revoultion'.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009 ... reedom.php

There are many more examples.

[odelltrclan]

I am sure this thread will end soon since it now seems to be turning to politics, but Conor, your comments about a certain party are total BS. By removing Harry Reid I am pretty sure they meant through voting, not through the use of guns. The second amendment is currently a hot topic because, unbelievably, aspects of it are continually challenged and it is almost unfathomable for me to see that 4 judges on the Supreme Court recently voted against it in the recent court case. Given the constitution hating Kagan (the one who discontinued constitutional law at Harvard and replaced it with an international law course) was not yet there (thank God), what does that say about our future direction? Our current government is taking our rights away and spending our futures with no end in sight.

[jazzcyclist]

Conor and odel, I must remind you that free speech day is still four days away,

[Conor Dary]

Conor and odel, I must remind you that free speech day is still four days away,

Don't worry jazz. I have said my piece. I just wanted to point out the environment that encourages this sort of nonsense is being pushed on a national level.

[bad hammy]

Sound bites work a lot better than a coherent policy proposal.

Does she have a coherent policy proposal too?

Well she has half of the Guns & Butter equation covered . . .

[lonewolf]

[ I'm sure you know that politicians shoot themselves in the foot all the time. .

Oh yeah, politicians of all stripes make unbelievably ill-advised/down right stupid pronouncements all the time.
Sometimes it may be because they misjudge the audience but I suspect they are just speaking their thoughts.
I dread and intend to ignore the the upcoming Free Speech forum and implore the mods to discontinue it. It does nothing except destroy a year's accumulated good will among otherwise amicable/compatible track friends.
It inevitably disentegrates from civil differences in opinion to a personal insults and unflattering allegations of one's intellect, ancestry,mental competence and personal philosphy.
I am personally offended by the stuff permitted, not only on the Free Speech forum but day to day, and I am sure I would be ostracized and permanently banned if I responded in kind.

[SQUACKEE]

It inevitably disentegrates from civil differences in opinion to a personal insults and unflattering allegations of one's intellect, ancestry,mental competence and personal philosphy..

I will post my usual open love letter to Garry for this great site. One out of a thousand anit bad!

[Daisy]

Some love letter if you can't even spell his name

As for lonewolf, I'd love to read your A list material

[SQUACKEE]

Some love letter if you can't even spell his name

What are you talKing aboot, you must be PUI!

[Daisy]

Some love letter if you can't even spell his name

What are you talKing aboot, you must be PUI!

Don't play Mr Innocent with me

Last edited by SQUACKEE on 30 Jun 2010 12:00, edited 1 time in total.

[SQUACKEE]

Some love letter if you can't even spell his name

What are you talKing aboot, you must be PUI!

Don't play Mr Innocent with me

Last edited by Daisy on 30 Jun 2010 12:00, edited 1 time in total.

[jazzcyclist]

As for lonewolf, I'd love to read your A list material

Me too.

[lonewolf]

As for lonewolf, I'd love to read your A list material

Me too.

If by "A list material" you mean what I really think, I would probably be visited by the FBI and Homeland Security.

[kuha]

For what it's worth, I'd have nothing against the disappearance of the Free Speech thing. I, for one, am depressed to no end by what wrong-headed ideas some otherwise delightful people appear to hold. What's most noteworthy, however, is the fact that NONE of the arguments, or assertions, or views, on either side, appear to really change anyone's mind. So, "we" can vent with great self-righteousness (and we do), but none of it (apparently) carries any power of persuasion.

[Daisy]

So, "we" can vent with great self-righteousness (and we do), but none of it (apparently) carries any power of persuasion.

So TD won't be an atheist on July 5th?

[lonewolf]

For what it's worth, I'd have nothing against the disappearance of the Free Speech thing. I, for one, am depressed to no end by what wrong-headed ideas some otherwise delightful people appear to hold. What's most noteworthy, however, is the fact that NONE of the arguments, or assertions, or views, on either side, appear to really change anyone's mind. So, "we" can vent with great self-righteousness (and we do), but none of it (apparently) carries any power of persuasion.

My point exactly. There will be no conversions here, just pissed off people in different camps.
Wrong-headed is in the head of the beholder. People can fervently believe differently. Chances are, those you deem wrong-headed are just as depressed by your inablity to "see the light."

[gm]

Luckily, I know kuha isn't referring to me, since I am in no way "otherwise delightful"

BTW, lonewolf, I drove through Eastern Oklahoma on the way back from Des Moines and was reminded once again what a beautiful area that is.

[jazzcyclist]

For what it's worth, I'd have nothing against the disappearance of the Free Speech thing. I, for one, am depressed to no end by what wrong-headed ideas some otherwise delightful people appear to hold. What's most noteworthy, however, is the fact that NONE of the arguments, or assertions, or views, on either side, appear to really change anyone's mind. So, "we" can vent with great self-righteousness (and we do), but none of it (apparently) carries any power of persuasion.

My point exactly. There will be no conversions here, just pissed off people in different camps.
Wrong-headed is in the head of the beholder. People can fervently believe differently. Chances are, those you deem wrong-headed are just as depressed by your inablity to "see the light."

I don't think it's necessary to agree with an opinion in order to understand it. There are plenty of opinions on contemporary issues that I understand, despite the fact that I disagree with them, and for the record, I've never seen lonewolf post an opinion on a political issue that I didn't understand. What frustrates me is logically incoherent folks who contradict themselves, and those folks who believe in situational ethics. Perhaps I'll call a few of them out in a few days.

[kuha]

Chances are, those you deem wrong-headed are just as depressed by your inablity to "see the light."

That's obvious, and is absolutely implicit in what I wrote. I'd like to think the matter is NOT one of pure ideology--we "believe" X or we "believe" Y, and never the twain shall meet (belief, alone, doesn't impress me; belief itself has no necessary connection to reality)--but rather of reasoned argument and nuances of perspective. Call me a dreamer...

[bad hammy]

Ha, this is the Internet, Dreamer . . .

[kuha]

Luckily, I know kuha isn't referring to me, since I am in no way "otherwise delightful" .

You sly dog--your own post proves you wrong...

[Marlow]

Perhaps I need wait 4 days to fully engage the issue, but as Paul Fussell outlines in his essay, A Well Regulated Militia, the meaning of the Second Amendment,

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

makes it perfectly clear that the right to bear arms is intended expressly to maintain a well regulated militia. If you're in the Reserves or the National Guard, be my guest. Otherwise, any legal sanction against firearms is, well, legal.