Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?


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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Daisy » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:38 pm

kuha wrote:I wonder if there are enough to go around?

At least the cap manufacturers are hiring. Can the right claim that as a political victory leading into November? :twisted:

Speaking of the right. Here is a very interesting article (Darwin Foes Add Warming to Targets) tying together evolution and climate change as a new wedge strategy.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Marlow » Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:19 pm

Daisy wrote:So you don't believe in teaching moments?
Teaching can only occur when someone wants to learn. Some simply refuse.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Daisy » Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:31 pm

Marlow wrote:
Daisy wrote:So you don't believe in teaching moments?

Teaching can only occur when someone wants to learn. Some simply refuse.

Shouldn't a teacher try and find a different strategy for such individuals? Or do you believe in lost causes?
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby dukehjsteve » Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:06 pm

This whole " Global Warming" thing is a vast left wing plot ! It's the Communists ! It's the Socialists ! It's the New World Order cabal ! It's OBAMA ! :roll: :wink: :P :lol:
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Marlow » Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:44 pm

Daisy wrote:Shouldn't a teacher try and find a different strategy for such individuals? Or do you believe in lost causes?

How many individuals have you seen, just on this site alone, who refuse to 'learn', even when confronted by logic and rationality? I have never given up on a student of mine, but there are some adults who are content to wallow in the filth of their own mind's making.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby lonewolf » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:01 pm

Apparently, this thread is destined to overtake the Ipod/Desert Island thread.
I don't think there is anything new that can be added but as one of those who "refuses to learn" and kowtow to the logic and rational of the loyal oppositon, I once again am compelled to rise to the bait.
I do not confuse climate with weather. I do not deny that there are short and long term cycles of warming and cooling. The earth has been in a 10,000 + year warming trend since the reversal of the the last Ice Age. "Scientist" in the different camps offer up dueling stastics to prove their contention.
The difference is: my logic and rational tell me that man has about the same cause/effect on global warming as a fart in a hurricane.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:05 pm

"Speaking of the right. Here is a very interesting article (Darwin Foes Add Warming to Targets) tying together evolution and climate change as a new wedge strategy."

I had read that. Amazing what the right tries to tie together. Gun Rights, Birth Certificates, Global Warming, Death Panels, the taste of Gin....just throw and an argument out there and see what sticks....
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Marlow » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:09 pm

lonewolf wrote:Apparently, this thread is destined to overtake the Ipod/Desert Island thread.
I don't think there is anything new that can be added but as one of those who "refuses to learn" and kowtow to the logic and rational of the loyal oppositon, I once again am compelled to rise to the bait.
I do not confuse climate with weather. I do not deny that there are short and long term cycles of warming and cooling. The earth has been in a 10,000 + year warming trend since the reversal of the the last Ice Age. "Scientist" in the different camps offer up dueling stastics to prove their contention.
The difference is: my logic and rational tell me that man has about the same cause/effect on global warming as a fart in a hurricane.

As I hope you gathered, I was NOT talking about you or anyone else who thinks man is not causing GW. We ARE in a period of Global Warming now - whether or not it's man-made is a separate issue. Whether it is or not our fault is totally irrelevant. We ARE polluting the planet at an alarming rate, and we must find ways to reverse that trend.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby lonewolf » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:17 pm

Sincere people on both the Left and Right disagree on the cause/cure for global warming. I don't consider it a political issue. Well, aside from the proposal to institute ruinous, unjustifed taxes for no demonstrable reason and even there it is not exclusively a Left/Right issue.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:26 pm

"Scientist" in the different camps offer up dueling statistics to prove their contention."

This is a poor representation of the two sides. Just as in the evolution argument, the vast majority of the 'scientist' who study and know this stuff are in agreement. Then there is the nonbelievers camp who primarily just try to find 'missing links'.

For example uber skeptic Sen. James Inhofe, has bragged about a list of over 600 'scientists' who are GW skeptics. But most of these are either tv weatherman, economists or physicists like Freeman Dyson, who really know nothing about what they are talking about.

http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/11/i ... led-again/
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby kuha » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:59 pm

Conor Dary wrote:"Scientist" in the different camps offer up dueling statistics to prove their contention."

This is a poor representation of the two sides. Just as in the evolution argument, the vast majority of the 'scientist' who study and know this stuff are in agreement. Then there is the nonbelievers camp who primarily just try to find 'missing links'.


Exactly. It's not a 50/50 issue; more like 90/10 at this point, or maybe, to be generous, 80/20. There's no pretending that the man-affected global warming trend is a SURE thing...but it remains the consensus of the scientific community.

My rule of thumb is roughly as follows. We are faced with two opposing answers--A and B--to a given problem.

A requires nothing from us, no change, no sacrifice, no effort of any real kind. All that's required is a shrug of the shoulders and a knowing smile.

B demands real and permanent change in the way we live and think--not change that is impossible, but change that will be difficult and controversial--in order to lower the odds of a future catastrophe.

OK, we have our two possible paths laid out. Knowing human nature as I do--I've had some little experience in 57+ years--its natural that the "easy" answer is A--that's the answer that our pre-rational, reptilian brain wants to be true. Why? Because it's easy, of course. The intricacies of the science get quickly sidetracked as soon as we tell ourselves, "this one demands nothing from me, and, in fact, only confirms that everything we're doing now is just fine."

B, on the other hand, doesn't let us off the hook. And, in part, that's exactly why I'm compelled to think that it has a reasonably high likelihood of being right: it runs counter to the comforting falsehoods and justifiations that we continually invent to protect ourselves.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby rasb » Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:19 pm

Very well said, Kuha! Of course, we are not sure whether we can make a difference, or not, but we owe it to ourselves and to future generations to CARE and TRY...
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby gh » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:01 pm

London Times reporting on a new study that says 95% chance man is to blame for global warming:

<<...The evidence that human activity is causing global warming is much stronger than previously stated and is found in all parts of the world, according to a study that attempts to refute claims from sceptics.

The “fingerprints” of human influence on the climate can be detected not only in rising temperatures but also in the saltiness of the oceans, rising humidity, changes in rainfall and the shrinking of Arctic Sea ice at the rate of 600,000 sq km a decade.....>>

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/e ... 050341.ece
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby jhc68 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:08 pm

Back to local specifics... Central California has no sand left on the beaches because so many winter storms have sent pulses of BIG waves scouring the shorelines. There may have been bigger swells in past years but I don't recall a season with so many days of major surf along this coastline.
Of course this is weather, not climate and it is an El Nino situation, and here there are no "norms" for weather, only averages (the average rainfall is @16 inches per annum because some years it totals 38" and then the next two might only be 5"). But this winter's solid lines of surf marching in from the north Pacific has been unprecedented in my memory.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby rasb » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:38 pm

Apparently the great Central Valley in California is rapidly running out of water. This area provides a lot of the fruit and vegetables for a significant portion of North America, particularly during our winter, spring and early summer. Of course, I'm sure this isn't worth worrying about, because part of the Anarctic seems to be retaining and perhaps even building up a little more ice... What climate change ???
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby rasb » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:22 am

Interesting piece in this morning's daily, Victoria Times Colonist.
The title is "Warmest, driest winter in Canadian history".
Apparently, 4 degrees Celsius (over 7 F.) warmer than normal, and 6 degrees Celsius warmer
in some part of Northern Quebec and Nunavut.
Called "beyond shocking" by one climatologist, he says the non-Winter "may have set the stage
for potentially horrific water shortages, insect infestations, and wildfires this Summer".
The suspects are El Nino, shift in the winds and ocean currents in the Pacific Ocean, and
thinning, retreating Arctic Ice.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby JRM » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:34 pm

rasb wrote:... he says the non-Winter "may have set the stage
for potentially horrific water shortages, insect infestations, and wildfires this Summer".
The suspects are El Nino,...


In these parts, El Nino certainly does not imply water shortages.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:14 am

rasb wrote:Apparently the great Central Valley in California is rapidly running out of water. This area provides a lot of the fruit and vegetables for a significant portion of North America, particularly during our winter, spring and early summer. Of course, I'm sure this isn't worth worrying about, because part of the Antarctic seems to be retaining and perhaps even building up a little more ice... What climate change ???


The rice farming in the Central Valley uses about a meter of water for irrigation (i.e., each square meter of planted rice uses about a cubic meter of water in irrigation; at least they did 20+ years ago). When the price is very low [i.e., artificially low to some customers] a lot will get used and then there is not enough at that price. I suspect that fruits and veggies have higher marginal products of water than does a lot of rice. California agriculture might be in for a rougher future in that snow pack is a source for much of its water and snow pack is sensitive to temperature and the timing of temperature changes. If rain falls instead of snow more often between 4000 and 9000 feet, a lot less snow pack will be available as winter rains wash quickly through the system rather than being stored as snow for later.

For all the gruff southern California gets for wasting water, residential (and commercial/industrial) customers in southern California do not use that much of California's water despite the fact that there are 25 million of them living in a warm/dry climate.

The price elasticity of demand for water in many agricultural uses is greater than one (i.e., a 1% increase in price leads to more than a 1% decrease in usage).
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:27 am

gh wrote:This is probably a good time to mention that a lot of people confuse weather and climate. Weather is short-term and local, climate is longterm and far-reaching.

In other words, unusual snow (or heat, or anything) probably means absolutely nothing relative to climate.


I cite this difference often.

Also, people cite specific events or a sequence of events such as the large snowfall this season in the East as clear evidence that their cannot be Global Climate Change. However, Getting more snow is not necessarily a sign that the climate is not getting warmer and can be a sign that it is (which is the case for snowfall along the East Coast, I think).

I have been generating some trends of weather in conjunction with work I have been doing and using the NOAA Official Norms for heating degree days (HDDs) has been the worst predictor among a set of three: 1) NOAA Norms; 2) the average of the most recent 10 years; 3) the trend over the last 25 years attached to the average of the most recent 20 years. The difference in performance using data starting from 1965 through to the present is actually stunning even compared with what I expected to find. For example, for the case that got me started in the upper Midwest, the average forecast Bias of the NOAA Norms was about 500 one year out, over 600 five years out and over 700 ten years out. The most recent 10 years had a Bias of only a bit over 100 one year out, but over 400 ten years out. The trend method had a Bias of about 20 one year out and essentially zero ten years out.

While these amounts were large, almost all other cases I tested for major areas around the country (Portland, Austin, Georgia, Kansas City, NY, Baltimore, Louisville, Chicago, LA, Denver) show similar results with smaller magnitudes except for LA, where the weather station was LAX (the airport) RIGHT on the coast and thus dominated by cool on-shore flows, and they were almost neutral.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby donley2 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:12 am

I don't know that this is funny, but it is a nasty combo af hot and humid today. At 1:00 one of the local airports was reporting 94 degrees and 50 percent relative humidity. That converts to 103 on those heat-humidity tables. Took a 20 minute walk at lunch time and have not been that uncomfortable walking around outside in recent memory.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby lonewolf » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:16 am

donley2 wrote:I don't know that this is funny, but it is a nasty combo af hot and humid today. At 1:00 one of the local airports was reporting 94 degrees and 50 percent relative humidity. That converts to 103 on those heat-humidity tables. Took a 20 minute walk at lunch time and have not been that uncomfortable walking around outside in recent memory.

Hey, I used to live in Cowtown.. it gets hot there in the summer..I don't remember the humidity being so bad.. compared to Houston
Last edited by lonewolf on Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Dietmar239 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:22 am

It is sweltering here in Baltimore. The past four days it has been over 100 degrees, with the highest being 105 a couple of days ago (two degrees shy of the all-time record). Heat indices have been at or greater than 110.

Today we will have what feels like an arctic front come thru when we top out at about 98. Afterwards, the temps are supposed to go back up and more humidity than this week. Poor saps in my neighborhood out there watering their lawns. It's like spitting into a volcano to try and put it out. Do you honestly think watering your flattened, yellow straw (I mean grass) will help?
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby rasb » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:39 pm

Day 3 of a predicted 10 day extreme heat wave here on Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland of British Columbia. We had a relatively dry winter and spring here, so this kind of heat and no precip. expected for 10-14 days will play havoc with us. They are predicting extreme forest fire hazards, and major water-use restrictions by the end of next week. And we will still have 2 and 1/2 to 3 months before the Fall Rains arrive. Not good ! And we are talking all-time records here on all fronts. If it ain't climate change, I sure as hell wish I knew what it was... We are often called the "wetcoast" of Canada, instead of the "westcoast".
That ain't happening anymore...
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby jhc68 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:51 am

Here in Santa Barbara the local weather gurus have announced that this just concluded summer was officially the coldest on record (average temp. 24/7 less than 62 degrees) and the foggiest skies since the airport began recording such stats in 1941.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Marlow » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:04 am

And in my neck of the woods, we've had the hottest summer on record.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby lonewolf » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:29 am

Dunno why folks are continually surprised that weather/climate varies from locale to locale, year to year, decade to decade, century to century, millineum to millineum, eon to eon... always has, always will.. at least until the sun burns out.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby guru » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:57 am

Fourth-largest snow event in Minneapolis history takes down the Metrodome roof. The Vikes/Giants game, already postponed to tomorrow night, now REALLY interesting.

I just want to see a picture from INSIDE that place.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/ ... odome-roof
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Pego » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:18 am

200 miles east of HHH, we have a foot of snow on the ground. My roof is holding up so far 8-) .

Edited a typo.
Last edited by Pego on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby guru » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:12 am

Looks like the Bears/Patriots game this afternoon in Chicago is going to be a beaut. 2-4 inches of snow, 30 mph winds, with gusts up to 50 mph. -4 degree windchills. Not exactly Bradyball weather...
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby guru » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:38 am

Pic from inside the collapsed Metrodome.

http://yfrog.com/gzzp1tj


And video of the collapse from the inside. Wow

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news ... c-12-2010#
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:49 pm

Pego wrote:200 miles east of MMM, we have a foot of snow on the ground. My roof is holding up so far 8-) .


Just far enough south that the first part came as rain (only 4-5 inches?); had to travel to Milwaukee for a nephew's performance in Spamalot (enjoyed it), and decided to stay the night rather than risk driving back at midnight.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Dutra » Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:52 pm

guru wrote:Looks like the Bears/Patriots game this afternoon in Chicago is going to be a beaut. 2-4 inches of snow, 30 mph winds, with gusts up to 50 mph. -4 degree windchills. Not exactly Bradyball weather...


Yep. Hindered him completely.

:lol:
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby dukehjsteve » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:35 pm

A few big IFS here:

IF the Giants had made it into Twin Cities on Saturday
and IF that roof had collapsed about 9 hours later than it did
and IF the game was going on at the end of the field where the huge cascade of ice/snow/water came down...
then multiple players very likely would have died. And probably large-scale panic in the stands as well.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:38 am

dukehjsteve wrote:A few big IFS here:

IF the Giants had made it into Twin Cities on Saturday
and IF that roof had collapsed about 9 hours later than it did
and IF the game was going on at the end of the field where the huge cascade of ice/snow/water came down...
then multiple players very likely would have died. And probably large-scale panic in the stands as well.


Looking at the video on the collapse, it was not a sudden, catastrophic event but started with some tears that leaked snow, followed by a bigger one that dumped a bunch on the field but not an avalanche. Probably the biggest risk was panic, plus what do you do with 60,000 people going out into that weather? The video did not go on for too long, so I do not know how rapidly it proceeded from there (since air holds it up, once a big leak develops I presume that it deflates. I thought that they worked to get the snow off of such domes; if they were not able to do so would they have held the game despite the risk?
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby donley2 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:12 am

Todays Dallas Fort Worth high 80 plus degrees. Areas just barely west of here projected to hit 87. Tad warm for first day of winter.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:16 am

26mi235 wrote:
dukehjsteve wrote:A few big IFS here:

IF the Giants had made it into Twin Cities on Saturday
and IF that roof had collapsed about 9 hours later than it did
and IF the game was going on at the end of the field where the huge cascade of ice/snow/water came down...
then multiple players very likely would have died. And probably large-scale panic in the stands as well.


Looking at the video on the collapse, it was not a sudden, catastrophic event but started with some tears that leaked snow, followed by a bigger one that dumped a bunch on the field but not an avalanche. Probably the biggest risk was panic, plus what do you do with 60,000 people going out into that weather? The video did not go on for too long, so I do not know how rapidly it proceeded from there (since air holds it up, once a big leak develops I presume that it deflates. I thought that they worked to get the snow off of such domes; if they were not able to do so would they have held the game despite the risk?


High winds stopped them from getting the snow off.

I seriously doubt they would have played with all that snow still up there. It wasn't like they started the game in fine weather and then a Blizzard showed up.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby mike renfro » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:00 pm

Wellllllll, it has been raining for about 15 hours or so (the cat thinks it's been a lifetime, and from her point of view, probably close). Not too unusual at this time of year, but this is f**king San Diego. I want a refund :evil: I know, if you live where seasons happen, this would be considered balmy weather (its actually in the 60s). I am just spoiled. I really would have liked to see the lunar eclipse, but visibility, not so much. :(
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby lonewolf » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:15 pm

Weather acts funny somewhere, every year.. i remember pulling cotton shirtless , temp in 90s F, on Dec 25, circa 1950-51 in Kiowa County, OK.... also remember -5 F one Xmas day in the late 30s-early 40s...
The only constant about weather is: It changes.
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby guru » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:21 pm

Satellite of the monster ripping through the Plains and Chicago today. Fortunately, we're(Cincinnati) not on the business end of the rain/snow line this time.


Image
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Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:54 am

Yes, it was quite a storm. About 3 feet, from drifts, just outside the front door. Even had big lightening bolts and 50 mile winds. Some fools went driving on Lake Shore Drive last night and hundreds were stuck in their cars all night.

Image

LSD last night.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi- ... otogallery
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