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kuha
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 5668
Location: 3rd row, on the finish line
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 Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| gh wrote: | | Just think, if not for Soviet invasions of Hungary and Afghanistan this list might read notably differently. |
Absolutely. In fact, our existing list of OG medalists is very largely a product of historical contingency. Subtract WWI and WWII and you automatically have a new set of "great" names; subtract the deprivations of the Great Depression, and who knows?; subtract the various bans for amateur violations and the result of the boycotts of '76, '80, and '84....etc.
And then, it's an interesting problem in "virtual history" to consider what difference it would have made if the modern Olympic cycle had begun in 1894 or 1898--that is, if the Olympic cycle had been 2 years different, resulting in Games in years such as 1954, 1958, 1962, 1966, 1970, 1974, 1978, etc. |
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gh
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 31252
Location: with Suzanne, near her place by the river
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| One of the first columns I wrote for the magazine, back in the '70s, was based on that very premise. As I recall I just did a 1-year shift earlier, so we had Ryun '67 for example. |
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gh
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 31252
Location: with Suzanne, near her place by the river
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| In the context of all events, allow me to suggest Dutch Warmderdam as a hard-to-top starting point as the best-of-the-best (thanks WW II) with no Olympics. |
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Powell
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 6924
Location: Vanuatu
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Henry Rono |
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Marlow
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 8243
Location: Up on the Farm
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| gh wrote: | | In the context of all events, allow me to suggest Dutch Warmderdam as a hard-to-top starting point as the best-of-the-best (thanks WW II) with no Olympics. |
Zackly. He = Bubka. |
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bijanc
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1250
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: Best Shutout |
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| Jim Ryun |
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Double R Bar
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Mineral City
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Warmerdam is hard to beat in this category. |
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LopenUupunut
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 872
Location: Sleeping in Finland
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| None of them is anything like a match to Warmerdam, but it's still an interesting note that of the top nine performers with the old javelin model only the #7 (Németh) has an Olympic medal. |
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dj
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 3884
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Best Shutout |
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'68 1500 OG silver |
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CookyMonzta
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1119
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Marlow wrote: | | gh wrote: | | In the context of all events, allow me to suggest Dutch Warmderdam as a hard-to-top starting point as the best-of-the-best (thanks WW II) with no Olympics. |
Zackly. He = Bubka. |
Aye. No one, living or dead, active or retired, has earned the right top knock Dutch off my #2 all-time spot in the PV. Obviously, Bubka is #1, despite the fact that his only Olympic gold came while Ukraine was still part of the USSR. He has a whole slew of World Championships, though. |
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CookyMonzta
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1119
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| LopenUupunut wrote: | | None of them is anything like a match to Warmerdam, but it's still an interesting note that of the top nine performers with the old javelin model only the #7 (Németh) has an Olympic medal. |
Gold, and a WR. |
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CookyMonzta
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1119
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Aye. The 1980 boycott took away a chance for us to see TWO epic battles (5K/10K) between him and Miruts Yifter. |
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bijanc
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1250
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject: Ok |
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| Then it's Skeets, not Ryun |
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CookyMonzta
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1119
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Ok |
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| bijanc wrote: | | Then it's Skeets, not Ryun |
Oh, yeah, baby. Big mistake it was for him to go to the NFL when he did. He got back into world-class form (I think he ran 13.19 back in 1991), but it was a hell of a lot harder for him to keep it. |
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CookyMonzta
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1119
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Ok |
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| Here's a name for you: Ingrid Kristiansen. 4th in the 1984 marathon and injured in the 1988 10K. |
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nevetsllim
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 5005
Location: Plymouth and Exeter
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe not the best without an Olympic medal but one of the best without a World or Olympic medal might be Svetlana Ulmasova. |
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CookyMonzta
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1119
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| nevetsllim wrote: | | Maybe not the best without an Olympic medal but one of the best without a World or Olympic medal might be Svetlana Ulmasova. |
If I'm not mistaken, she was 3rd in Helsinki (1983) behind Mary in the 3K. I don't remember who finished 2nd. |
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bambam
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 2093
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| gh wrote: | | In the context of all events, allow me to suggest Dutch Warmderdam as a hard-to-top starting point as the best-of-the-best (thanks WW II) with no Olympics. |
Can't be beaten. He's the winner. He was the GOAT until Bubka (&Izzie) |
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nevetsllim
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 5005
Location: Plymouth and Exeter
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| CookyMonzta wrote: | | nevetsllim wrote: | | Maybe not the best without an Olympic medal but one of the best without a World or Olympic medal might be Svetlana Ulmasova. |
If I'm not mistaken, she was 3rd in Helsinki (1983) behind Mary in the 3K. I don't remember who finished 2nd. |
I think Ulmasova was fourth, after getting horribly boxed on the last lap.
West German Brigitte Kraus was definitely second and I think Kazankina snatched third. |
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billthedog
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| What about a category for those who had their chance but failed? Jack Torrance and George Brown come to mind. |
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LopenUupunut
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 872
Location: Sleeping in Finland
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| nevetsllim wrote: | | I think Ulmasova was fourth, after getting horribly boxed on the last lap. |
The technical term is "running stupidly". Anyway, it's not clear if she'd have medalled even with better tactics over the last couple of laps. Beating Kazankina wasn't all that easy...
I guess this category only includes athletes who weren't hopelessly past their peak by the time WCs started? I nominate Hohn, then. |
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jeremyp
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1818
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Dutch Warmerdam would have to be #1. I would also nominate:
Jim Thorpe  Does getting disqualified count as not winning a medal? I think so. And he won by 688 points. Un freaking believable.
Also:
Rudolf Harbig. (broke 800m mark by 1.8) died in WW2. Ran 10.6 100 (.4 off mark); 46.00 wr
Roger Bannister.
Brian Oldfield. 75' still incredible today.
Richard Attlesey. undefeated 50-51. Set wr 13.5 (2x)
Women:
Mary Decker |
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CookyMonzta
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1119
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| nevetsllim wrote: | | CookyMonzta wrote: | | nevetsllim wrote: | | Maybe not the best without an Olympic medal but one of the best without a World or Olympic medal might be Svetlana Ulmasova. |
If I'm not mistaken, she was 3rd in Helsinki (1983) behind Mary in the 3K. I don't remember who finished 2nd. |
I think Ulmasova was fourth, after getting horribly boxed on the last lap.
West German Brigitte Kraus was definitely second and I think Kazankina snatched third. |
I knew it was a non-Soviet who finished 2nd, but I completely forgot about Kazankina. |
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Peter Michaelson
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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jeremyp:
Harbig got a bronze in 1936 in the 4 x 400 relay. |
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jeremyp
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1818
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Peter Michaelson wrote: | jeremyp:
Harbig got a bronze in 1936 in the 4 x 400 relay. |
My bad. But they only just got it. Same time. I demand to see the photo finish! |
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