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A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (as always, locked for the duration of major international championship)

Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:31 am

[quote="jazzcyclist"]Anyone who has read the original constitution knows that this country was founded on the principles of White supremacy. Iquote]

There's a lot of truth to this but there is soooo much more to the constitution than white supremacy. at least it had the promise of these words -we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal.

There was slavery all over the world before the Europeans got involved and many Africans helped the European slave trade. To suggest white people created slavery is wrong.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:55 am

SQUACKEE wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Anyone who has read the original constitution knows that this country was founded on the principles of White supremacy.


There's a lot of truth to this but there is soooo much more to the constitution than white supremacy. at least it had the promise of these words -we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal.

There was slavery all over the world before the Europeans got involved and many Africans helped the European slave trade. To suggest white people created slavery is wrong.

I never said that White folks invented slavery. Slavery has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. I was only addressing Wright's take on the idealogy of White surpemacy. Slavery and racism are two different things. For most of human history, slavery existed without racism because people generally enslaved people who looked just like them, but were of a different ethnic group, tribe or religious faith. As a matter of fact, racism is a relatively young form of bigotry, because up until 500 years ago, most people went through their entire lives without ever seeing a person of a different race. But make no mistake, the U.S., or to be more precise, the British colonies in the late 1600's, is the first known instance where people married the practice of slavery to the ideology of racism. Up until then, there are no known instances of goverments judging people by their skin color anywhere in the world, and African slaves and European indentured servants were treated the same, with both being able to buy their freedom and being sentenced indentically for the same crimes.

As for that famous passage from the Declaration of Independence, isn't it self-evident (pun intended) that the authors of those words didn't believe in them?
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:06 am

jazzcyclist wrote: Is it not a fact that over the last 500 years, people of European descent have gone all over the planet to exploit and wreak havoc on non-Europeans/people of color?
.


I thought you were referring to slavery.

In 1776 they wrote about equality but that vision and hope was/is centuries away. Would you rather they had written -we hold these truths to be self evident that Black people are inferior, at least it would have been honest, right?
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Postby TrakFan » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:22 am

Marlow wrote:
Wright wrote:We [in the U.S.] believe in white supremacy and black inferiority

Wow - there's a VERY interesting sub-text underlying that statement. Freud would say that even Rev. Wright seems to believe it!


When you're addressing a group, it makes sense to put yourslef in the same category of those you're trying to guide towards improvement. Sure, he could have said "you", but it wouldn't have been as effective.

"As men, WE have a history of marginalizing women, however..."

"As educators, WE don't push girls towards careers in math and science in the same manner as boys, however..."

"As women, WE'RE too eager to accept substandard treatment from unfaithful boyfriends and husbands, however..."
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Postby ndamix » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:55 am

SQUACKEE wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Anyone who has read the original constitution knows that this country was founded on the principles of White supremacy.


There's a lot of truth to this but there is soooo much more to the constitution than white supremacy. at least it had the promise of these words -we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal.

There was slavery all over the world before the Europeans got involved and many Africans helped the European slave trade. To suggest white people created slavery is wrong.
True...slavery/human exploitation is as old as the human beings are.

However one can't ignore the various social institutions that came about as a result of the Europe's involvement in the slave trade especially when reviewing in a historical context of the last 500 years.

While European involvement of slavery has received the lion's share of the ink, it's interesting to note Arabs were just as culpable considering slavery was formally abolished in 1962 in what is now known as Saudi Arabia.
Last edited by ndamix on Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Pego » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:07 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Is it not a fact that over the last 500 years, people of European descent have gone all over the planet to exploit and wreak havoc on non-Europeans/people of color?


True. But it is also true that before that (with some overlap into the seventeeth century), it was the Moslem Turks that enslaved southeast Europe, and before that the Mongols and before that the Arabs and before that caucasian Avars and central Asian Huns, and before that white Romans and white Greeks and before that Persians...
There has also been a lot of enslavement of whites by whites, blacks by blacks, blacks by Moslems, Koreans by the Japanese (supposedly the same race). Massacres of people of the same race but different religion or questionably different ethnicity have been occurring regularly to this day (Rwanda, Yugoslavia).
To blame most of the human suffering on race wars is quite short-sighted.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:34 am

Weren't the pyramids built by slaves?
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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:53 am

SQUACKEE wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote: Is it not a fact that over the last 500 years, people of European descent have gone all over the planet to exploit and wreak havoc on non-Europeans/people of color?
.
I thought you were referring to slavery.

In 1776 they wrote about equality but that vision and hope was/is centuries away. Would you rather they had written -we hold these truths to be self evident that Black people are inferior, at least it would have been honest, right?

I was referring to colonisation, usurpation and mineral theft in my earlier post. I should add that the founding fathers also viewed native Americans as inferior, but yes, I think it would have better if they would have been up front about their racism, rather than hide behind hollow platitudes. There are very few character traits that irk me more than hypocrisy.
Last edited by jazzcyclist on Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:12 am

jazzcyclist wrote: I think it would have better if they would have been up front about their racism, rather than hide behind hollow platitudes. There are very few character traits that irk me more than hypocrisy.


Here's the new and improved version-

We hold these truths to be self evident that all Blacks, Asians, American Indians, Indians, women of all races, Homosexuals, Arabs, Jews and basically anyone with a tan to be inferior. Oh and Irish and the Eskimos.

We the people reserve the right to enslave these inferior sub humans.

All right Ben Franklin, get your fat ass over here and sign this shit!
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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:23 am

Pego wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Is it not a fact that over the last 500 years, people of European descent have gone all over the planet to exploit and wreak havoc on non-Europeans/people of color?


True. But it is also true that before that (with some overlap into the seventeeth century), it was the Moslem Turks that enslaved southeast Europe, and before that the Mongols and before that the Arabs and before that caucasian Avars and central Asian Huns, and before that white Romans and white Greeks and before that Persians...
There has also been a lot of enslavement of whites by whites, blacks by blacks, blacks by Moslems, Koreans by the Japanese (supposedly the same race). Massacres of people of the same race but different religion or questionably different ethnicity have been occurring regularly to this day (Rwanda, Yugoslavia).
To blame most of the human suffering on race wars is quite short-sighted.

I wasn't trying to blame all or even most of human suffering on race wars. As a matter of fact I was saying just the opposite. Wouldn't you agree that historically speaking, people who have been oppressed, enslaved or massacred were much more likely to be the victims of people who looked like them than people who didn't? Hitler and Stalin's victims were people who looked like them. Hirohito's victims were people who looked like him. Mao and Pol Pot's victims were people who looked like them. Saddam's victims were people who looked like him. And the same was true in Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Bosnia, etc. My main point is that historically, people have been targeted for religious and cultural reasons, not skin color. Even when leaders have been motivated by greed and wreckless ambition, they've used religion and culture to get the masses to buy into their visions of imperialism.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:26 am

SQUACKEE wrote:Here's the new and improved version-

We hold these truths to be self evident that all Blacks, Asians, American Indians, Indians, women of all races, Homosexuals, Arabs, Jews and basically anyone with a tan to be inferior. Oh and Irish and the Eskimos.

We the people reserve the right to enslave these inferior sub humans.

All right Ben Franklin, get your fat ass over here and sign this shit!

Now you're beginning to see the picture. By the way, have you ever read Frederick Douglas' July 4 speech?
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:31 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:Here's the new and improved version-

We hold these truths to be self evident that all Blacks, Asians, American Indians, Indians, women of all races, Homosexuals, Arabs, Jews and basically anyone with a tan to be inferior. Oh and Irish and the Eskimos.

We the people reserve the right to enslave these inferior sub humans.

All right Ben Franklin, get your fat ass over here and sign this shit!

Now you're beginning to see the picture. By the way, have you ever read Frederick Douglas' July 4 speech?


No i havent.
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Postby Marlow » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:44 am

SQUACKEE wrote:Weren't the pyramids built by slaves?

Not unless you believe your religion enslaves you. The pharoahs commanded the pyramids to be built, and the pharoahs were gods to the ancient Egyptians, so it was in their best interests to do as the god commanded.
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Postby Marlow » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:47 am

SQUACKEE wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:have you ever read Frederick Douglas' July 4 speech?

No i havent.

"This Fourth of July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn. Do you mean, citizens, to mock me, by asking me to speak to-day? . . . What, to the American slave, is your 4th of July? I answer; a day that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sound of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants brass fronted impudence; your shout of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanks-givings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy -- a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States, at this very hour."
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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:51 am

And he followed that up with this:
Go where you may, search where you will, roam through all the monarchies and despotisms of the Old World, travel through South America, search out every abuse, and when you have found the last, lay your facts by the side of the everyday practices of this nation, and you will say with me, that, for revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival....
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Postby Marlow » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:51 am

TrakFan wrote:
Marlow wrote:
Wright wrote:We [in the U.S.] believe in white supremacy and black inferiority

Wow - there's a VERY interesting sub-text underlying that statement. Freud would say that even Rev. Wright seems to believe it!

When you're addressing a group, it makes sense to put yourslef in the same category of those you're trying to guide towards improvement. Sure, he could have said "you", but it wouldn't have been as effective.

That's why I said sub-text. Overtly it's obvious he is not speaking for himself, but sub-textually I see more. I see a man so full of rancor that he must strike out at an invisible enemy, an enemy that he sees trying to destroy him at every opportunity. I think he inadvertently drank some of the Kool-aid that White American has historically been providing minorities.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:52 am

Marlow wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:Weren't the pyramids built by slaves?

Not unless you believe your religion enslaves you. .


8-)
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:54 am

jazzcyclist wrote:And he followed that up with this:
Go where you may, search where you will, roam through all the monarchies and despotisms of the Old World, travel through South America, search out every abuse, and when you have found the last, lay your facts by the side of the everyday practices of this nation, and you will say with me, that, for revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival....


Unless you happen to be a white male!
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Postby Marlow » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:55 am

jazzcyclist wrote:you will say with me, that, for revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival....

Sad but true. And we've been trying to make up for that for the last 150 years, which is more than I can say for all those other despots and tyrants to whom he referred. It is the progress we've made (Obama, for one) that defines us now, not just the abysmal depths to which we had sunk. Present-day Germany certainly knows how that feels.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:59 am

jazzcyclist wrote:And he followed that up with this:
Go where you may, search where you will, roam through all the monarchies and despotisms of the Old World, travel through South America, search out every abuse, and when you have found the last, lay your facts by the side of the everyday practices of this nation, and you will say with me, that, for revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival....


So would you agree we deserved 9/11 like Rev. Wright said? Do we deserve to be wiped off the face of the Earth and if not, why not?
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Postby Marlow » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:01 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:Do we deserve to be wiped off the face of the Earth and if not, why not?

Just wait till 12/21/12 and let it happen naturally! :D
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Postby Pego » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:31 pm

jazzcyclist from Douglas wrote:for revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival


Once again I am going to argue. You guys are speaking strictly from the vantage point of the American experience, even more narrow, the experience of American ethnic minorities such as blacks and Indians. This sort of thing has been happening all around the world, sometime with ethnic background, sometimes racial, sometimes religious, but most ot the time it was socio-economic. In USA, the Civil war ended involuntary servitude. In central Europe, it pretty much existed almost to the time of WWI. They were not called slaves, but serfs. A landlord could still kill a serf, practically with impunity. They still had to work for the lord 1/10th of the time, the Church 1/9th. They were totally economically dependent. Post WWI industrialization started creating a small urban middle class, but a decade later came the Great Depression. That was also a world-wide phenomenon that may have been lost on the Americans.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:42 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:And he followed that up with this:
Go where you may, search where you will, roam through all the monarchies and despotisms of the Old World, travel through South America, search out every abuse, and when you have found the last, lay your facts by the side of the everyday practices of this nation, and you will say with me, that, for revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival....


So would you agree we deserved 9/11 like Rev. Wright said? Do we deserve to be wiped off the face of the Earth and if not, why not?

As I said earlier, and as Obama said in his speech on race last year, Wright is wrong when he says this country hasn't made progress, though it might not be fast enough for him. But Wright is a product of his time, and last year my mother said that folks would be shocked if they realized how many Blacks over the age of 60 feel the same way Wright does.

Generally speaking, I would say that all people deserve the same right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But I also believe that all citizens of a nation are collectively responsible for the actions of their government outside its borders. The citizens of Hiroshima didn't deserve to be nuked and citizens of Dresden didn't deserve to be firebombed, but they were responsible for the actions of their respective governments. Terrorism is the price of imperialism and interventionism, and it's up to the citizens of a country to decide if they're willing to pay the price for having meddling and aggressive governments. Do you have any idea how many military bases we have in countries all over the world in foreign countries? Did you know that we spend more money on our military than all of the other nations of the world combined? When Wright talked about "the chickens coming home to roost", he was quoting Ambassador Edward Peck who talked about 9/11 being the manifestation of what the CIA calls "blowback" on FOX News. But I guess it was asking too much for the Obama haters to put Wright's comments in context when they posted the videos all over the place. Here's that entire Wright passage from that sound bite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ

I think you might get a different impression of the man after watching this. Did you happen to notice who posted that video? Trinity United Church sells DVD's of it's sermon, but after FOX News bought them and selectively edited 15 years worth of sermons into inflammatory sound bites, they were forced to post the entire passages from each of those sound bites on youtube so that folks could see Wright in context. Obviously, the entire passages didn't get nearly the TV air time of the original sound bites that were edited from them.
Last edited by jazzcyclist on Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TrakFan » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:05 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:
So would you agree we deserved 9/11 like Rev. Wright said? Do we deserve to be wiped off the face of the Earth and if not, why not?


He didn't say we deserved it. He provided examples of why it shouldn’t come as a surprise that others look to do harm to our country.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/t ... -post.html
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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:38 pm

Pego, there's no doubt that your knowledge of world history is much broader than mine, but I do realize that bigotry and oppression of humans by other humans began thousands of years ago for all sorts of reasons. However, I was only addressing a very narrow form of bigotry based on skin color which I believe is relatively new. I'm not saying that older forms of bigotry aren't just as oppressive. Do you agree that assessment?
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Postby Pego » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:58 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Pego, there's no doubt that your knowledge of world history is much broader than mine, but I do realize that bigotry and oppression of humans by other humans began thousands of years ago for all sorts of reasons. However, I was only addressing a very narrow form of bigotry based on skin color which I believe is relatively new. I'm not saying that older forms of bigotry aren't just as oppressive. Do you agree that assessment?


We hardly ever disagree over socio-political issues, so this is no exception. College football, of course, is an entirely different matter :wink: .
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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:41 pm

SQUACKEE, do you believe in what the CIA calls blowback? Or do you believe that someone gave Osama bin Laden a copy of the Bill of Rights one day and he flipped out?
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Postby TrakFan » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:25 pm

I always laugh at the way a thread morphs into other areas. Wasn't this thread about NASCAR and Taco Bell??? More importantly, it shows that there can be a cordial and informative discussion on a "Third Rail" issue.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:15 pm

Terrorism is the price of imperialism and interventionism

Wrong, its the price we all must pay for Religious fanatics who worship death
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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:14 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:Terrorism is the price of imperialism and interventionism

Wrong, its the price we all must pay for Religious fanatics who worship death

So I take it that your answer to my first question is no. I think W really did this country a disservice after 9/11 when he said, "they hate us for our freedom". To their credit, Europeans don't tolerate that kind of of nationalistic Orwellian nonsense from their politicians. When the Prime Minister of Spain tried to blame the Madrid bombings on the Basques instead of his Iraq adventure that 94% of Spaniards opposed, he paid the price at the polls three days later when the people of Spain kicked him out of office. In a poll taken a few days after the London bombings, 85% of the British people connected the bombings to their military presence in Iraq. Of course, the British and the Spanish only learned the lessons of imperialism the hard way after centuries of world-wide pillage and plunder, but I hope it doesn't take us as long as it took them.
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Postby lonewolf » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:09 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:Terrorism is the price of imperialism and interventionism

Wrong, its the price we all must pay for Religious fanatics who worship death

I tried to stay out of this but my blood pressure is getting dangerously high.
I'm with Squak. . The idea that the US is responsible for terrorism because of foreign policy is right out of the fanatical jihadists talking points.
We are the most generous nation in the history of the world. Unfortunately, the "have not " nations who beg for our money as they lambast us in the UN and those we rescue from aggression have short memories and inevitably it becomes, "Yeah, but what have you done for me lately."
If the US is such a terrible place, why is the rest of the world trying to get in?
The US is not and has never been an imperialist nation. As to intervention, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.
True, we have troops all over the world but we are there for valid reasons and I am not aware of any place where we remain in defiance of the wishes of the legitimate government. On the contrary, they are damned glad, for security and financial reasons, to have us there.
Cue Merle Haggard, "When you're running down my country, Hoss, you're walking on the fighting side of me."
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Postby TrakFan » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:17 pm

lonewolf wrote: As to intervention, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.


Do you think American intervention in Iran has been a contributing factor in the current dysfunctional relationship between the 2 nations? Too often, we use that "damned if we do/damned if we don't" analogy based on the assumption that US interventionism is always in the form of "helping" another nation in need. Many times we were meddling.

Its unfathomable to imagine Iran covertly influencing a US election, yet, we were directly involved in a coup that replaced their prime minister...and then we're surprised and offended when they, or others, want to harm Americans based on how we've "intervened".

Although WE have a short term memory problem when it relates to American misbehavior, others may not.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:16 am

lonewolf wrote:The idea that the US is responsible for terrorism because of foreign policy is right out of the fanatical jihadists talking points.
Now you're talking like a true American nationalist.
lonewolf wrote:We are the most generous nation in the history of the world. Unfortunately, the "have not " nations who beg for our money as they lambast us in the UN and those we rescue from aggression have short memories and inevitably it becomes, "Yeah, but what have you done for me lately."
The facts say that we are the stingiest western nation in the world, not the most generous. But many Americans have the same misconception that you have.
According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), Washington contributed only 0.15 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) to development assistance, earning it last place in the rank of the 21 major western donors. The U.S. is far behind the nearly one percent contributed by Norway, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark--the top contributors--and less than half the percentage of its larger European allies, including France, Britain, and Germany.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0104-13.htm
One of the reasons that Bush had problems getting the U.N. to authorize his Iraq adventure in 2003 is because three African nations, Cameroon, Guinea and Angola, who were on the Security council, received no aid from the U.S. but generous aid from France and other European countries.
lonewolf wrote:If the US is such a terrible place, why is the rest of the world trying to get in?
Now you're conflatimg U.S. foreign policy with U.S. domestic policy, which are two distinctly different things. I once heard a jihadist cleric being interviewed in Pakistan, and when asked if he would advise Muslims to leave the U.S., he said, "No, no, no. I've been to America and in America, Muslims have more freedom to practice Islam in the way that they chose than they do in most Muslim countries. It is American foreign policy that I object to."
lonewolf wrote:The US is not and has never been an imperialist nation."
You have to be oblivious to huge parts of American history to believe that.
George Orwell's Notes on Nationalism wrote:A known fact may be so unbearable that it is habitually pushed aside and not allowed to enter into logical processes, or on the other hand it may enter into every calculation and yet never be admitted as a fact, even in one’s own mind.
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Postby Marlow » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:02 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
lonewolf wrote:The US is not and has never been an imperialist nation."
You have to be oblivious to huge parts of American history to believe that

If you take 'imperialism' to mean what the 1960s radicals defined it as, then yes, we have been and are right now 'imperialistic'. But as far as the original (and 'best') definition, empire-building, then no, we have not sought to build our empire for many decades now (Puerto Rico, Guam, Hawai'i, etc.).

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" seems to be our motto since Korea (Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.).
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Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:10 am

Two prominent black figures have called white people the devil and described America as the worst country thats ever existed. Here's my question.

Am i unjustified in being proud of my race,(just like everyone seems to be) and proud of my country(where it is now) just like everyone else seems to be. And if i'm not justified, what other races and countries should be ashamed or as a white American i am uniquely evil?
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Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:55 am

SQUACKEE wrote:Two prominent black figures have called white people the devil and described America has the worst country thats ever existed. Here's my question.

Am i unjustified in being proud of my race,(just like everyone seems to be) and proud of my country(where it is now) just like everyone else seems to be. And if i'm not justified, what other races and countries should be ashamed or as a white American i am uniquely evil?

SQUACKEE, you already know where I come down on that Farrakhan-Nation of Islam stuff. But to your main point, it's not for me to tell you what to be proud of. However, it's silly to expect that the same things that move you will also move me because our life experiences and environment growing up were so different. Personally, there are many things about my race and my country that I am proud of and many things that I am ashamed of. Having said all that, I must point out that the entire world stood in awe of the U.S. on November 5, 2008, because we had pulled off something that is scores if not centuries away for most countries. No European country has ever shown that level of tolerance and inclusiveness. The equivalent would be India electing a Muslim Prime Minister, Israel electing a Gentile Prime Minister or Iran electing a Jewish President. I don't think you have to be a supporter of Obama to have been proud of our nation on that day.
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Postby Marlow » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:15 am

SQUACKEE wrote:Am i unjustified in being proud of my race

No. All the good and evil in the world exist because of us (the human race, of which people with light skin are only an insignificant variant). There is nothing to be proud of or NOT proud of. We are. That's about all you can say.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:16 am

Marlow wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:Am i unjustified in being proud of my race

No. All the good and evil in the world exist because of us (the human race, of which people with light skin are only an insignificant variant). There is nothing to be proud of or NOT proud of. We are. That's about all you can say.


What about what the Godfather sang, "SAY IT LOUD, IM BLACK AND IM PROUD!"
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Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:24 am

Marlow wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:Am i unjustified in being proud of my race

No. All the good and evil in the world exist because of us (the human race, of which people with light skin are only an insignificant variant). There is nothing to be proud of or NOT proud of. We are. That's about all you can say.


What % of the people of the world have no feelings about their race, none, completely neutral, 1%, 5%. 0%????
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Postby Marlow » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:28 am

SQUACKEE wrote:What % of the people of the world have no feelings about their race, none, completely neutral, 1%, 5%. 0%????

To be alive in the 21st Century is to be proud of ethnicity (nationality, etc.), but not race. I am not 'proud' to be 'white', are you? What is Obama proud of? If anything, that he is 'mixed' and successful, which some Justices of the Peace think is impossible! :wink:
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